co-op Have No CCA for my Card - Now Lowells Chasing me

[digots]

Update.

 

I got a letter today heading: Warning - Formal Demand is Imminent.

 

I have 7 days to contact them or they may;

 

Register my name on CCJ register.

 

Obtain Attachment of Earnings, thus allowing them to deduct payments from my salary.

 

Obtain a Charging Order against my property

 

Send the bailiffs round for my goods

 

Charge me for any legal costs etc....

 

What do I respond with now?

 

I am not talking to them on the phone (they ring a few times each day).

 

Any advice is appreciated.

 

Mr Digots!

[digots]

I have re-sent the letter asking for a copy of the CCA with proof of delivery of the previous 2 letters.

 

I also sent off a telephone harrasment letter.

 

Everything is sent recorded delivery and I copy and paste the signatures from the royalmail website into a word document for proof.

 

Is that enough for now?

[digots]

anyone??

[clemma]

You can do no more for now - just sit back and wait for their response.

[digots]

You can do no more for now - just sit back and wait for their response.

 

Hi Clemma,

 

Thank you for your response

 

Coincedently I received a response in the post today from the CO-OP. It was a letter saying they have included a copy of my CCA.

 

Looking at it, it says it is a Credit Card Application Form. It has my signature on it but there are no terms on the form.

 

They have attached a printout of their terms from a wesbite (11 pages) but that does not even show the correct APR etc for my Card. It should show the Northern Rock base rate plus 1% as my APR I believe. It also shows a different account number to the one I have (I assume this is because they took on the NR accounts and changed them).

 

So, I assume I now write to them now saying this is not a valid CCA??

 

Is there a good template I can use?

 

Cheers

 

Digots

[clemma]

You assume right - there is another letter for this too:

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

RE: Agreement/Account number

 

Thank you for your response to my letter dated xxxxxx 2009, making a formal request for a true copy of the original credit agreement for the above account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

The documents you supplied me appear to be no more than an application form, and as such are not a satisfactory response to my request. Nowhere on the front of the document is there any reference to the prescribed terms and conditions that such an agreement must contain. I must assume that these are unconnected documents and once again inadequate to satisfy your obligations.

 

As you are aware you are obliged to provide me with a true copy of my agreement as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974. and I consider that you have failed to comply with my request for these documents

 

 

Under the terms of the above Act, a creditor has 12 working days to provide the requested documents. This deadline has now passed and I have not received the requested documents from you.

 

As I am sure you are aware, an agreement that does not contain all of the prescribed terms, and/or is not signed by the debtor, is completely unenforceable & I therefore consider that this account is in dispute with immediate effect & it follows that all payments to this account are suspended forthwith.

 

I draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.

You must not pass this account to any third party.

You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

You must not issue a default notice on this account

I hereby give you notice that if you proceed with any of the above actions, I will file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Yours faithfully

[supasnooper]

Excuse me for asking, but have you received a Default Notice ?

Edited May 18, 2009 by supasnooper
typo

[digots]

Excuse me for asking, but have you received a Default Notice ?

 

Yes, but after the account was in dispute.

 

Does that make a difference?

 

Digots

[clemma]

They cannot default you whilst the account is in dispute......

 

However, getting them to remove it is difficult and would probably involve court action. I would inform the CRA's that they have placed a default on your account whilst it's in dispute though - not that you will get very far with them, but at least you are making a paper trail.

[digots]

They cannot default you whilst the account is in dispute......

 

However, getting them to remove it is difficult and would probably involve court action. I would inform the CRA's that they have placed a default on your account whilst it's in dispute though - not that you will get very far with them, but at least you are making a paper trail.

 

Hi Clemma,

 

I am not sure how I go about informing the CRA?

 

All the templates I can see are related to bank charge disputes. I am disputing my account for different reasons (interest rates are incorrect).

 

Any suggestions to what I do next is appreciated.

 

Digots.

[lexis200]

Can you post the default notice up at all (all personal bits removed)?

 

I think we've had 1, maybe 2 effective notices, the rest have been dodgy. It's worth having a look to see if this falls into the latter category as it will limit them to being able to claim only the arrears shown at the time of default.

 

Lexis:)

[digots]

Can you post the default notice up at all (all personal bits removed)?

 

I think we've had 1, maybe 2 effective notices, the rest have been dodgy. It's worth having a look to see if this falls into the latter category as it will limit them to being able to claim only the arrears shown at the time of default.

 

Lexis:)

 

 

Hi Lexis,

 

I will get those scanned tomorrow and upload as requested.

 

Surely the default notice is null and void if the account was in dispute anyway?

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Digots

[lexis200]

AFAIK it's only against OFT guidelines to issue defaults while an account is disputed rather than it being a legal requirement. Even it's not the case, my guess is it's easier to point out faults with a DN than argue about timings - anything to make your life easier!

[digots]

ok, managed to take a photo of default notice.

 

Have taken out any personal info or info I do not want to disclose.

 

The amount in the 4th section (after 'specifically') is the full amount due not the arrears.

 

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Digots

[lexis200]

Well there you go:D

 

It's a duffer:D:D

 

They need to allow you 14 days to remedy after service. Assuming they sent this first class, and that they actually posted it on the Saturday (not sure how likely that is), you would not have received it until Monday 27th at the earliest (and deemed service for 1st class would have been the 28th, or 30th for 2nd class).

 

There's debate as to whether the 14 days starts from the day after you receive it, or actually on the day of receipt, but if you go on worst case scenario (ie on the date of receipt and sent 1st class) they've only given you 12 days to remedy not 14. In fact they'd have had to hand deliver it to be in time, and even that is debatable if it's 14 days fromt he day after service. This is a big problem for them.

 

The thing now is to sit on it until they terminate on the back of this DN. Once they do that they lose all rights to collect the balance under section 87, and are limited to being able to claim the arrears (assuming the arrears are correctly stated and don't include illegal charges - if they do I believe they lose everything).

 

Once you have the letter of termination (or when they demand the full balance which amounts to termination), you are able to move on. This is the bit where I'm still learning. I'm at this stage with a few creditors, but don't want to sit and wait for court action (in fact I want to avoid it at all costs - I'm a big ol' wuss:D). In my case I'm thinking about offering them a small f+f on the basis that the default is rubbish - even the ones without an enforceable agreement, but this is just because I want shot of them, not everyone would be happy with doing that.

 

Anyway, at the moment it's looking good for you!

 

edit - sorry missed that they've already closed the account - did they really do it before the remedy date on the DN, and do you have the letter stating the account is terminated? This is unlawful rescission of contract if they have and you have proof, and if you're willing to do battle in court I think you can claim damages for it. I must stress I'm not sure on this last bit (I am sure of the unlawful rescission bit, just not the damages), so someone else would have to clarify.

 

Lexis:)

[digots]

Yeah, I have a cancellation notice, but that just mentions the card rather than the account. That was also dated 25th April 2009.

 

Re-reading it, I am not 100% sure the account is terminated.

 

Im all confused

[lexis200]

Ok, well keep an eye out for anything that specifically says terminated (mine was hidden in the middle of an otherwise unexceptional letter), or for if they ask you for the full balance.

 

The importance of asking for the full balance (to show termination), is that they can only claim the whole balance once they have issued an effective DN - it all hangs on that for them. If they don't issue the DN correctly, they can't terminate without losing all rights to the balance. If they do anyway, they can't re-instate without both parties consent, which I'd guess you would be unlikely to agree to doing:)

 

Lexis:)

 

ps - I live in a state of perpetual confusion, so you're not alone:D

[digots]

Ok, well keep an eye out for anything that specifically says terminated (mine was hidden in the middle of an otherwise unexceptional letter), or for if they ask you for the full balance.

 

The importance of asking for the full balance (to show termination), is that they can only claim the whole balance once they have issued an effective DN - it all hangs on that for them. If they don't issue the DN correctly, they can't terminate without losing all rights to the balance. If they do anyway, they can't re-instate without both parties consent, which I'd guess you would be unlikely to agree to doing:)

 

Lexis:)

 

ps - I live in a state of perpetual confusion, so you're not alone:D

 

Ok, will keep an eye out for any termination letters. I will also go back through the many letters that they have sent me demanding payment and see what they asked for. I think they all asked for the outstanding balance but I am not sure if that is the arrears balance or the total balance.

 

Cheers

 

Digots

[digots]

Ok, well keep an eye out for anything that specifically says terminated (mine was hidden in the middle of an otherwise unexceptional letter), or for if they ask you for the full balance.

 

The importance of asking for the full balance (to show termination), is that they can only claim the whole balance once they have issued an effective DN - it all hangs on that for them. If they don't issue the DN correctly, they can't terminate without losing all rights to the balance. If they do anyway, they can't re-instate without both parties consent, which I'd guess you would be unlikely to agree to doing:)

 

Lexis:)

 

ps - I live in a state of perpetual confusion, so you're not alone:D

 

Ok, received the termination letter today along with a letter stating I am being taken to court, CCJ threats etc.

 

What do I do next? Another letter?

 

Also, on another note, I sent a harrassment letter a few weeks ago which they responded to saying they were taking the necessary action to investigate my complaint but they are still calling me. Maybe I should answer and tell them where to go

[digots]

Anyone?

[digots]

Its gone very quiet in here at the moment.

 

I would appreciate if someone could give me some advice on what to do next? Do I wait for the DCA to contact me or do I write to the Co-Op again telling them they cant take action without a valid CCA?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Digots

[supasnooper]

send the following letter to the Co-op (amend to suit) -

 

 

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested, any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

Print name do not sign

[ltc1607]

When they start threatening legal proceedings then send this one...

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to your letter dated XXXXX

 

Your letter is incorrect and frivolous, you are fully aware of legally valid reasons why no payment has been made on this account, namely that the agreement which underpins this account has not been supplied despite a perfectly valid request and furthermore, it is suggested that notwithstanding the failure to supply a copy, the agreement itself is improperly executed, devoid of all prescribed terms and deficient in respect of detail relating to APR, total charge for credit and statements of rights ,remedies and protections as required by schedules 1,2 and 6 Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983

 

Therefore the agreement as outlined in section 65 (1) Consumer Credit Act must be laid before the court to be granted an enforcement order before any further action can be taken

 

It is my view that the court would not grant such an order due to the deficiencies that I have outlined, further more the absence of any documents disproving my points itself speaks volumes

 

Therefore, I would indeed welcome the opportunity to place this before the court. furthermore should you proceed with the threats to issue a court claim I will make an immediate application to have it set aside for the grounds outlined above, also I shall refer the judge to this letter when the matter of costs falls due

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook.

This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim.

This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself.

Applies to England and Wales

 

__________________

[digots]

Thanks to you both for responding.

 

I will send the letter(s) off ASAP.

 

Thanks again.

 

Mr Digots!

[digots]

Ok, well keep an eye out for anything that specifically says terminated (mine was hidden in the middle of an otherwise unexceptional letter), or for if they ask you for the full balance.

 

The importance of asking for the full balance (to show termination), is that they can only claim the whole balance once they have issued an effective DN - it all hangs on that for them. If they don't issue the DN correctly, they can't terminate without losing all rights to the balance. If they do anyway, they can't re-instate without both parties consent, which I'd guess you would be unlikely to agree to doing:)

 

Lexis:)

 

ps - I live in a state of perpetual confusion, so you're not alone:D

 

I have recieved another letter telling me someone has made a decision on my account (which is now terminated) and that I must take responsibility for the debt as I had made payments in the past?

 

Basic history of this is that I requested CCA, they sent application form with terms from webpage (twice). Issued an invalid default notice, then terminated account. Then finally the latest letter saying I must admit debt blah blah blah..

 

Any advice is appreciated on what to do next.