All MBNA Caggers Fight Against MBNA's underhand tactics

[lexis200]

Hi Lexis,

 

As you say, if they did have a compliant agreement, then I think that they would have sent them after all these months.Yep:)

 

I have just countered the agreements as the reconstructions or fakes arrived, only 3 in my case, with the OFT text below.

 

“The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original. Where the terms have been varied as provided for within the agreement, the copy of the original agreement must be accompanied by a document setting out the current terms, as varied. Certain details may be omitted from the original agreement eg the signature but the debtor must be in no doubt as to the true nature of his obligations under the loan.

 

Should no original agreement be in existence it is very hard to say that the copy the creditor offers to the debtor is, in fact, a true copy as there would be no original with which to compare it. In our view the onus of proof would be on the creditor to show that the copy is a true one and where none existed he may have difficulty discharging this. Neither should creditors suggest that a consumer has signed a credit agreement where they are unable to provide evidence to support this — to do so is likely to be a misleading action under Regulation 5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (the CPRs) and would also constitute an unfair or improper business practice.”

 

I think that one of the real problems is, that we all assume we are dealing with inteligent beings when we write our arguments. Somehow, I do not think that that is the case. I am sure that the letters get filed or binned when dealing with the OC's collection staff. They don't understand the content and don't pass it on to someone who does.

I think that they beleive they are far more in tune with the Law and regulations than we are and behave accordingly. How wrong they are. They seem to have a set computorised process to follow and do not deviate. It is not until you get to the DC or solicitor stage that someone takes notice, hopefully.

Mine have gone fairly quiet at the moment. Just respond to each Template letter that arrives, pointing out how wrong they are, but it falls on stoney ground.

You are quite correct regarding the timeline of threats. Not good reading. It does not seem to matter how good a customer you were!

My next tack is OFT, TS and MP. Just to keep poking them with a sharp stick.

Vint

 

I'd say that part is so true it's not funny I had a phone call with some obnoxious cow from Phoenix Recoveries the other day. One of those people who keeps talking over you - in the end I just told her to stop being so rude and JUST LET ME FINISH! Anyway, it got to the point after a bit of to and fro-ing that I asked her if she knew anything about the CCA1974. She very pompously said that actually, yes she did. She then went on to tell me that having no prescribed terms on an agreement was of no consequence (my 2000 'agreement' is basically my details and their advertising:rolleyes: and that it certainly didn't render the agreement unenforceable, and neither did the fact that the application form is illegible. She also told me that terminating the agreement without sending a default notice is not an unlawful act, and that then going on to issue an (ineffective) default two years later followed by another termination is also not a problem.

 

Oh, and it was also fine to pass my details onto them despite the fact I'm still in the middle of a complaint with the OC (their 'we'll be a while longer' letter arrived on the same day that Phoenix's 'pay us the full balance or we'll steal your knicker elastic' letter did)

 

Clueless is not a strong enough word. Either that or she did know and was outright lying. I've very very gently mentioned this in my letter to the CEO of this bank. Again, kept it very factual and not been emotional, but it needs to be addressed that these people are allowed to do this. She was btw absolutely convinced by what she was saying, and as such made it sound very convincing - if I hadn't known what I was saying was 100% right (ie if I hadn't known about CAG) I have no doubt I'd have caved.

[vint1954]

Hi all

 

Could anyone please comment on this please.

I have today received response letter from mbna, it returns my fee and says we are unable to send you a copy of your original signed agreement.

What does this mean unable or cant be bothered??

Shall i sent non-compliance of cca request to them or write and ask why not.

 

Ang

Hi Ang,

 

Unusual not to send you an agreement. If they don't have one, they usually make one up!

 

Try the letter below, having read and edited it.

 

Vint

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly as no agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

The OFT describe a true copy as:

In a recent letter from the enforcement department of the OFT, the text below was quoted, explaining what is required.

“The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original. Where the terms have been varied as provided for within the agreement, the copy of the original agreement must be accompanied by a document setting out the current terms, as varied. Certain details may be omitted from the original agreement eg the signature but the debtor must be in no doubt as to the true nature of his obligations under the loan.

 

Should no original agreement be in existence it is very hard to say that the copy the creditor offers to the debtor is, in fact, a true copy as there would be no original with which to compare it. In our view the onus of proof would be on the creditor to show that the copy is a true one and where none existed he may have difficulty discharging this. Neither should creditors suggest that a consumer has signed a credit agreement where they are unable to provide evidence to support this — to do so is likely to be a misleading action under Regulation 5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (the CPRs) and would also constitute an unfair or improper business practice.”

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from 27/03/09 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I am now granting to you a further 7 days to produce a copy of an executableagreement. After that I will consider that the above matter is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt. If you are insisting that the non enforceable document, that you have supplied, filled in by yourselves, is the only alleged agreement in your possession, then I would suggest that the best course of action would be to immediately set the balance of the above account number to zero.

I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt, ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

[lexis200]

Normal for MBNA

 

 

 

Very good idea, copy in your local MP too, we are not alone

I'll look into that AA - have you done it before? Any tips you can offer?

 

How's your battle going at the mo?

 

Hi Lexis

 

What do you think about my other agreement where they sent a dodgy app form with seperate T and C [ with missing clauses in prescribed terms ] in response to s78 request.

But didnt send it in SAR and said we have already responded to your previous s78 request.

 

Do you think they regard the SAR as more legally binding than the s78 request and therefore dont send anything dodgy or cobbled together ?

 

Probably not too far from the truth:rolleyes: Did you specifically request it in the SAR? If so, they have to comply in one way or another (although Citi sent a typed sheet of the details on OH's agreement which is apparently ok, so you still might not get to see it if they're going to be really obstructive!)

 

Having said that, I'm not sure all creditors really care about it being more legally binding. Cap1 have sent me an agreement that appears to be two different documents copied onto one piece of paper. I've been trying to get them to answer this simple question 'Is the document you've sent two sides of my original signed agreement' with a yes or no. They are flat refusing to answer with anything other than the standard 'we've sent your agreement now sod off' line.

 

Still worth having a pop at them if they've not sent what you asked for though!

[vint1954]

I'd say that part is so true it's not funny I had a phone call with some obnoxious cow from Phoenix Recoveries the other day. One of those people who keeps talking over you - in the end I just told her to stop being so rude and JUST LET ME FINISH! Anyway, it got to the point after a bit of to and fro-ing that I asked her if she knew anything about the CCA1974. She very pompously said that actually, yes she did. She then went on to tell me that having no prescribed terms on an agreement was of no consequence (my 2000 'agreement' is basically my details and their advertising:rolleyes: and that it certainly didn't render the agreement unenforceable, and neither did the fact that the application form is illegible. She also told me that terminating the agreement without sending a default notice is not an unlawful act, and that then going on to issue an (ineffective) default two years later followed by another termination is also not a problem.

 

Unbeleivable!

 

Oh, and it was also fine to pass my details onto them despite the fact I'm still in the middle of a complaint with the OC (their 'we'll be a while longer' letter arrived on the same day that Phoenix's 'pay us the full balance or we'll steal your knicker elastic' letter did)

 

I guess a letter asking them to prove written permission, or of to the ICO. In Durkin the judge thought a resonable sum for besmurching of reputation was £8000.

 

Clueless is not a strong enough word. Either that or she did know and was outright lying. I've very very gently mentioned this in my letter to the CEO of this bank. Again, kept it very factual and not been emotional, but it needs to be addressed that these people are allowed to do this. She was btw absolutely convinced by what she was saying, and as such made it sound very convincing - if I hadn't known what I was saying was 100% right (ie if I hadn't known about CAG) I have no doubt I'd have caved.

 

I think untrained is the word. Probably 4 hours in a training room and off to the phones you go.

 

Looks like we will have to wait until the employees with a brain cell get involved.

 

It's not as if some of these people hav'nt been doing the job for long. Most of the people we get letters from, are mentioned in threads from a couple of years back.

 

Ho Hum.

 

Vint

Edited August 11, 2009 by vint1954

[lexis200]

Well it appears my ranty phone call yesterday worked, so it's not all bad:D

 

Had another call today from them, but as soon as I did security he went off to check my notes, came back after a longer than normal pause (I like to think after having a little panic and setting up his 'help!' flag), and very quickly apologised for calling:D

 

I think I got the one with the brain cell today!!

[the_shadow]

Well it appears my ranty phone call yesterday worked, so it's not all bad:D

 

Had another call today from them, but as soon as I did security he went off to check my notes, came back after a longer than normal pause (I like to think after having a little panic and setting up his 'help!' flag), and very quickly apologised for calling:D

 

I think I got the one with the brain cell today!!

 

hahaha he was running scared lexis ;-D

 

S.

[citizenB]

Monkeykiwi - hehe, sorry about the DCA/monkey reference, didn't even notice Thanks for the kind words:)

 

angmarie - I've seen this a few times around the site (regrettably not for any of mine!). If they've said they can't provide one though, as opposed to not being able to find it for the time being or similar, that is a nice letter to have.

 

I haven't got a letter myself as I appear to have lost my letters file:eek:, but there are tons knocking around for when they don't send anything at all. Essentially though if they can't find it they are in the brown stuff not only as far as your account goes but also with the Data Protection rules as they should not have 'lost' your agreement!

 

I'd say that part is so true it's not funny I had a phone call with some obnoxious cow from Phoenix Recoveries the other day. One of those people who keeps talking over you - in the end I just told her to stop being so rude and JUST LET ME FINISH! Anyway, it got to the point after a bit of to and fro-ing that I asked her if she knew anything about the CCA1974. She very pompously said that actually, yes she did. She then went on to tell me that having no prescribed terms on an agreement was of no consequence (my 2000 'agreement' is basically my details and their advertising:rolleyes: and that it certainly didn't render the agreement unenforceable, and neither did the fact that the application form is illegible. She also told me that terminating the agreement without sending a default notice is not an unlawful act, and that then going on to issue an (ineffective) default two years later followed by another termination is also not a problem.

 

Oh, and it was also fine to pass my details onto them despite the fact I'm still in the middle of a complaint with the OC (their 'we'll be a while longer' letter arrived on the same day that Phoenix's 'pay us the full balance or we'll steal your knicker elastic' letter did)

 

Clueless is not a strong enough word. Either that or she did know and was outright lying. I've very very gently mentioned this in my letter to the CEO of this bank. Again, kept it very factual and not been emotional, but it needs to be addressed that these people are allowed to do this. She was btw absolutely convinced by what she was saying, and as such made it sound very convincing - if I hadn't known what I was saying was 100% right (ie if I hadn't known about CAG) I have no doubt I'd have caved.

 

I would have commented.. but Vint beat me to it..

 

Oh no.. how come you lost your file ??

[summerbreeze]

 

Probably not too far from the truth:rolleyes: Did you specifically request it in the SAR? If so, they have to comply in one way or another

 

 

Still worth having a pop at them if they've not sent what you asked for though!

 

Hi Lexis

 

Yes it was specifically requested on the SAR

 

They have not sent me a copy DN or temination letter either .

The account was charged off before a DN was sent out and theres lots of other interesting stuff on the account log and lots of missing phone contact details .

 

I just dont understand why they have not sent the copy CCA in the SAR unless there is some doubt about it.

 

In the same letter that came with the SAR stating they have already sent me a copy CCA 6 months ago when I sent the s78 request they have confirmed that my other agreement copy cannot be found .

 

I think they dont like me

[alisindebt]

Everyone's circumstances are different. Also there is a choice of strategies.

 

My strategy when they started playing stupid tricks like you have experienced was to do nothing for a long time and let them keep making mistakes. I kept records of everything and scanned letters also, for electronic backup.

 

The end result of doing it this way? They admitted that the reason they did not send the CCA was that they had no records dating back to when the credit card was agreed and then they said that would be the last I would hear from them.

 

Personally, I never told them about the records that I kept of abusive letters from them, etc. I just kept it on file "just in case" we ended up in court.

 

I took the same view with egg, when they sent me strange CCA "copies". I waited for a couple of months, collected all their latest DCA threats, etc, then wrote simple saying that they had not supplied me with a true copy of the original CCA and the debt was unenforecable. i never told them what the faults in their CCA were. It's up to them to prove it, not the "debtor".

[AA99]

Everyone's circumstances are different. Also there is a choice of strategies.

 

My strategy when they started playing stupid tricks like you have experienced was to do nothing for a long time and let them keep making mistakes. I kept records of everything and scanned letters also, for electronic backup.

 

The end result of doing it this way? They admitted that the reason they did not send the CCA was that they had no records dating back to when the credit card was agreed and then they said that would be the last I would hear from them.

 

Personally, I never told them about the records that I kept of abusive letters from them, etc. I just kept it on file "just in case" we ended up in court.

 

I took the same view with egg, when they sent me strange CCA "copies". I waited for a couple of months, collected all their latest DCA threats, etc, then wrote simple saying that they had not supplied me with a true copy of the original CCA and the debt was unenforecable. i never told them what the faults in their CCA were. It's up to them to prove it, not the "debtor".

 

I'm a bit like that:) Have you signed the petition:p

Petition to: Request a special investigation by the FSA and OFT into the harrassment by consumers and their families through the debt collection practices of MBNA and specifically the practices related to telephone calls and defaults while in dispute

[vint1954]

Everyone's circumstances are different. Also there is a choice of strategies.

 

My strategy when they started playing stupid tricks like you have experienced was to do nothing for a long time and let them keep making mistakes. I kept records of everything and scanned letters also, for electronic backup.

 

The end result of doing it this way? They admitted that the reason they did not send the CCA was that they had no records dating back to when the credit card was agreed and then they said that would be the last I would hear from them.

 

Personally, I never told them about the records that I kept of abusive letters from them, etc. I just kept it on file "just in case" we ended up in court.

 

I took the same view with egg, when they sent me strange CCA "copies". I waited for a couple of months, collected all their latest DCA threats, etc, then wrote simple saying that they had not supplied me with a true copy of the original CCA and the debt was unenforecable. i never told them what the faults in their CCA were. It's up to them to prove it, not the "debtor".

Hi Alisindebt,

 

How old was your MBNA card?

 

I think that this lot just go through their process of harassment and intimidation and then sell the debt on for others to take their chance.

[alisindebt]

OK, I signed. Thanks for bringing the petition to my notice, i did not know about it.

[lexis200]

I would have commented.. but Vint beat me to it..

 

Oh no.. how come you lost your file ??

 

Hey CB:)

 

I have no idea how I lost it, but it's a bit of a bu**er. It's got all the vanilla templates I've worked on for the banks, plus loads of other little nuggety bits that I mix and match when I need a standard letter. It's about 6 months of work and 40/50 odd items that have gone:eek:

 

Everything else in that file is still there, it's just this one folder that's skedaddled:( I'm sure I'll find it somewhere though. My OH works in IT so he's probably been 'fixing' the lappy again:rolleyes:

 

At least my actual letters to banks are still where they should be in that file, although I think I may be printing them out so that I have hard copies in case any more go walkabout!

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi Alisindebt,

 

How old was your MBNA card?

 

I think that this lot just go through their process of harassment and intimidation and then sell the debt on for others to take their chance.

 

Hi Vint,

 

I agree that this could be useful as there should be a pattern.

Surely at some stage a decision was made with respect to archiving etc so at some particular date for example they said "Whoops might be a good idea to retain the originals" etc

 

Surely it would be useful to them too as there would be little point in sending the trainee/internist down to the archives if it unlikely to be there.

 

On another tack I was wondering if we should build a database of Courts and Judges which would allow us to analyse where the 'bizarre' decisions are sourced. Just a thought.

 

GK

[angry cat]

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090219005512&newsLang=en

 

Note Link buy the MBNA debts through Wilmington Trust SP! (plus others)

 

Company Name: Asset Link Capital (Holdings) Limited

Business Description: A group engaged in comprise the collection of charged-off consumer receivables.

Sectors: Support Services

Cost of Sales: £32.1m

Parent Company: WILMINGTON TRUST SP SERVICES (LONDON) LIMITED

 

Also known as BCT Conduit Limited

 

AC

[angmarie]

Hi all

 

I cant start my own thread, so im real sorry but today ive had another letter from different dept at mbna suggesting that they may be happy to negotiate a settlement figure for the account (the one which they have written saying cant supply cca).

It says if im in a position to do this to call shamus blah blah blah to discuss.

Shall I still send letter as above, dont really have available funds at the moment anyway.

Whats best way to handle them now please.

 

 

Ang

[alisindebt]

The card dates back to around 1999.

[citizenB]

Hey CB:)

 

I have no idea how I lost it, but it's a bit of a bu**er. It's got all the vanilla templates I've worked on for the banks, plus loads of other little nuggety bits that I mix and match when I need a standard letter. It's about 6 months of work and 40/50 odd items that have gone:eek:

 

Everything else in that file is still there, it's just this one folder that's skedaddled:( I'm sure I'll find it somewhere though. My OH works in IT so he's probably been 'fixing' the lappy again:rolleyes:

 

At least my actual letters to banks are still where they should be in that file, although I think I may be printing them out so that I have hard copies in case any more go walkabout!

 

My computer went down last year and I lost loads of stuff:eek: I now back up every evening to an external hard drive and print out hard copies. Call me paranoid if you like..

[supasnooper]

Might be a good idea to create a google or hotmail e-mail account and send a copy of your letters there for storage

[summerbreeze]

Hi Angmarie

 

They were also unable to send me a copy of one of my agreements when I sent a CCA request however they didnt return my fee.

 

I have since sent a SAR and they again responded that they were unable to provide a copy due to ' archive retrieval problems '

 

So I think they cant get it and therefore cant enforce it .

 

I think this is good news for you

 

SB

 

I have been studying my SAR from MBNA

 

Its very strange ...

 

There are details of my original application with a hand written reference number.

Then theres a recent screen shot that says charged off and written on that sheet it says the same reference number and " app. unavailable "

 

Now they sent me a copy of my application form in my S78 request and a seperate sheet of alleged T and C that I was convinced was not the reverse of the App form.

 

So why is it now " app unavailable " in response to a SAR but they sent me the alleged CCA in response to S78 ?

[cashins]

Now they sent me a copy of my application form in my S78 request and a seperate sheet of alleged T and C that I was convinced was not the reverse of the App form.

 

So why is it now " app unavailable " in response to a SAR but they sent me the alleged CCA in response to S78 ?

 

I have exactly the same situation and frankly, I think they are lying!!!

 

I have written to them again on the situation asking them to:

 

Confirm that they no longer have a copy of the agreement.

 

or

 

Send a copy of the agreement and associated T&C's as they are required to do.

 

David

[summerbreeze]

I have exactly the same situation and frankly, I think they are lying!!!

 

I have written to them again on the situation asking them to:

 

Confirm that they no longer have a copy of the agreement.

 

or

 

Send a copy of the agreement and associated T&C's as they are required to do.

 

David

 

Hi David

 

In the letter that came with the SAR they said " We have already sent you a copy of the CCa in response to your s78 request "

 

I just dont get it .

 

They freely admitted they dont have a CCa for my other account so what are they up to?

 

I feel that the CCa sent before did not have the original T and C as I have always suspected and all they have is a front page of the appplication form.

 

I will sub to your thread also

 

SB

Edited August 17, 2009 by summerbreeze

[cashins]

I just dont get it .

 

 

I suspect the plot is that, as s78 has been so watered down over the years, they can get away with sending any old rubbish.

 

Not sure what the rules are for a SAR but could be they are supposed to send a proper copy!!!

 

David

[the_shadow]

I suspect the plot is that, as s78 has been so watered down over the years, they can get away with sending any old rubbish.

 

Not sure what the rules are for a SAR but could be they are supposed to send a proper copy!!!

 

David

 

The rules for a SAR are that all personal information held on you should be sent so long as its in a "relevant filing system", helpful as ever the ICO doesnt state what a "relevant filing system" is tho

 

Also under the DPA they are entitled to copy out all of the information on an agreement/application and transcribe it to another piece of paper.. sounds bizarre but Citicards have done it to me All perfectly legal as its the data thats personal not the format its in.

 

S.

[vint1954]

Hi David

 

In the letter that came with the SAR they said " We have already sent you a copy of the CCa in response to your s78 request "

 

I just dont get it .

 

They freely admitted they dont have a CCa for my other account so what are they up to?

 

I feel that the CCa sent before did not have the original T and C as I have always suspected and all they have is a front page of the appplication form.

 

I will sub to your thread also

 

SB

I think that they have realised, that sending reconstructed documents out is possibly leaving them in an unsafe possition, so they have backtracked.