Next Digital Signatures on CCA

[cadencealex]

I rang Next asking for my CCA and they said I never signed it and returned it to them, so they don't have one and can only send a template.. which he is sending today!

 

What now?

[silverfox1961]

Hi

They are saying you never returned your agreement?

If that is the case, they don't have a copy of the agreement so my advice is to wait and see what comes in the post BUT, these people have a nasty habit of not following through on what has been agreed on the phone so in the meantime I would send them this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

Send it recorded delivery and enclose a £1 postal order (no cheques)

DO NOT sign the letter.

If it is the case they haven't got a copy of your agreement then the debt is un-enforceable.

 

fox

[cadencealex]

Hi

They are saying you never returned your agreement?

If that is the case, they don't have a copy of the agreement so my advice is to wait and see what comes in the post BUT, these people have a nasty habit of not following through on what has been agreed on the phone so in the meantime I would send them this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

Send it recorded delivery and enclose a £1 postal order (no cheques)

DO NOT sign the letter.

If it is the case they haven't got a copy of your agreement then the debt is un-enforceable.

 

fox

 

Yes he said I didn't send it back - not unlike me. I am terrible for doing anything on time

[cadencealex]

As said on another part of the forum.

 

Next told me today they don't have a CCA because I never signed one or sent it back.

 

What letter should I send - I want the Default removed. I owe them 2k and will pay monthly but he told me they won't force the issue as it is due to be passed on.. so they can't set up a DD or a payment plan or anything?!

 

Anyways, what letter do I send to get the default removed

[cadencealex]

Just spoke to Next.

 

She told me that I don't have a CCA.

 

This means they CAN keep the default on my account.

 

They CAN chase me through a DCA.

 

They CAN'T place a CCJ on me through the Courts.

 

 

So basically it's tough, I can whistle. So what does this mean? They can send Bailiffs etc?!?

[pt2537]

Just spoke to Next.

 

She told me that I don't have a CCA.

 

This means they CAN keep the default on my account.

 

They CAN chase me through a DCA.

 

They CAN'T place a CCJ on me through the Courts.

 

 

So basically it's tough, I can whistle. So what does this mean? They can send Bailiffs etc?!?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

 

utter rubbish,

 

the question to ask is, did you ever sign a credit agreement with them?

 

if no then they failed to ensure s61(1)(a) Consumer credit Act 1974 was complied with and therefore the agreement is irredeemably unenforceable

[palomino]

In effect they are saying that you still owe the money but they can't enforce repayment.

 

Bailiffs can only be invoked when a Warrant of Execution has been obtained through the County Court. This can only be obtained following your failure to comply with a CCJ. Since you don't have a CCJ, and will not get one, then bailiffs will never be involved.

If some-one does call purporting to be a bailiff it will more likely be a simple debt collector who has no rights at all. You can ask him to leave in words of your own choosing.

[cadencealex]

No I NEVER signed the Credit Agreement that they sent me - they told me I never sent it back, although they did send me one to sign.

 

So there has never been a signature.

 

I am not wanting to get out of paying, I just want the default removed.

 

This is going to be a long slog isn't it?

 

This is my biggest debt!

 

I have contacted the CRA and told them to remove the default as its unenforcebale due to no CCA. Will they remove it?

[palomino]

Yes he said I didn't send it back

 

How do they know??

How do you know??

 

It could have been lost in the post.

It could have been misfiled by them.

 

etc.

etc.

[blind-as-a-bat]

No they wont, they believe if the creditor can prove you agreed to the terms of a conditions, by ordering something and making reguler payments for example, this is enough for a creditor to justify the records.

 

It is of course utter rubbish, ask yourself how can they prove you saw, or where able to see any T&C,s at the time of ordering? What was stated in them? Can Next prove you agreed too them? How can next prove you have breached what was in those terms?

 

 

yes it is going to be a long slog, what you need to do is hold Next to strict proof they have your consent to proscess your data, and that you where aware of the terms and what they where, together with proof you had sight of them bfeore ordering.

 

If you ordered from a catolougue, then that may be easy by produceing a copy with all that in, but if you ordered on line it will be harder to prove, as they cannot guarentee what was actually on the site at any given time, for many differant technical reasons, you may not have been able to accsess certain areas of the site, if you see what i am getting at;)

Edited January 14, 2009 by blind-as-a-bat

[bazaar]

Hi CC

First things first, Have you sent an 'Account in Dispute ' letter of for failing to produce a CCA?

If not get it in recorded delevery, because on that letter you will be warning them that they CANNOT pass it on, or put adverse data on your files. You'll need a good papertrail for the eventual battle to get the default removed. The dispute letter is one of those you'll need to dispute the default entry eventually.

hope this helps

[cadencealex]

I am going to do all of this tonight - just got to go and buy a printer/scanner

 

Will send Account in Dispute to everyone who has issued a Default.

 

Can you do this on closed accounts also?

[bazaar]

They cant issue defaults on closed accounts

[cadencealex]

They cant issue defaults on closed accounts

 

 

They issued the default ages ago, was open at the time.

 

Ah I see what you mean..

 

I was asking if I could do the same process on closed accounts.

[cadencealex]

I sent a CCA request this morning, with a £1 (cost me £1.50) Postal Order which was crossed but unsigned. I didn't fill the back of it in.

 

I have never used a postal order in my life.. so perhaps got it wrong.. :-|

 

Anyways they have 10 working days from recepit to reply.

 

Today I received my account number from them and a CCA that I would have received Although it doesn't have my signature on

[silverfox1961]

Hi'

The paperwork they have sent you doesn't have to have your signature on it but it should relate to you in some way.

Can you post it up and let the experts have a look.

 

fox

[cadencealex]

Hi'

The paperwork they have sent you doesn't have to have your signature on it but it should relate to you in some way.

Can you post it up and let the experts have a look.

 

fox

 

 

Hi Silverfox - thanks for your reply.

 

They only sent me a glossy leaflet with their Terms & Conditions on.. it's generic... something you would probably find in a catalogue or in store.

 

Nothing even resembling a personal agreement to anyone.

 

And the piece of paper with my account number just states...

 

Thanks for requesting your account number.. here it is.. blah blah.

 

 

So nothing that would help with my case in any way

[silverfox1961]

I sent a CCA request this morning, with a £1 (cost me £1.50) Postal Order which was crossed but unsigned. I didn't fill the back of it in.

 

I have never used a postal order in my life.. so perhaps got it wrong.. :-|

 

 

50p for a postal order-rip off but nescessary.

Please say that you spent the extra £1.08 for recorded delivery too.

The terms and conditions don't really satisfy your requirement.Time to sit back and see what comes in the post.

 

fox

[cadencealex]

50p for a postal order-rip off but nescessary.

Please say that you spent the extra £1.08 for recorded delivery too.

The terms and conditions don't really satisfy your requirement.Time to sit back and see what comes in the post.

 

fox

 

I wonder how much it would have cost to send a £100 postal order?!

 

I did send it by recorded delivery also, yes - 3 letters cost me £6.50 - hopefully well worth it!

 

Capital One is my newest default but I have two things over them I think - one is the Default is mainly charges and two, the Notice of Default I saw didn't seem to be up to scratch BUT also... because this was started in 2005 and I only ever filled in an application form... I wouldn't be surprised if their CCA wasn't lawful either

 

Next - no CCA

 

Natwest - settled Default for £101 made up of charges

 

So I am not asking for anything unreasonable in having these removed.. and if Next will kindly remove the default I will pay their bill!!

 

I wonder though.. would it look better for me if I started paying them off now should I have to contact the Information Commissioner?!

[cadencealex]

This company have not bothered me since 2006. I have heard nothing.

 

I check my credit file now and ring them to offer payment, and request they remove the Default they placed on my account. I was told they didn't have my CCA.

 

I sent a request for my CCA on Thursday. I received this letter this morning. Can they say this?!

 

 

Dear Mrs XXXXX

 

 

Next Directory Customer Number XXXXXXX

 

Outstanding Balance XXXXXXX

 

 

The above account that remains unpaid by the amount indicated is being prepared for sale to an external Debt Collection Agency who, post this sale, will legally own the debt.

 

To prevent this action and subsequent collections activity, please telephone the Next Directory Collections Department on 0844 844 8902* between the hours of 12noon-5pm, Monday 19th January 2009 to Thursday 22nd January 2009 with your proposal for payment. This line will cease to be in operation from 5pm, Thursday 22nd January 2009 at which point, should no communication have been received, the account will be sold.

 

 

Yours sincereley

 

Collections Department

Next Directory

 

 

 

What can I do to prevent this between now and Thursday? I am waiting for my CCA (which they say they dont have)

[blind-as-a-bat]

Found you:)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/178332-next-directory-rear-there.html#post1924964

 

Now, question is how many others have recieved this letter;)

[cadencealex]

Found you:)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/178332-next-directory-rear-there.html#post1924964

 

Now, question is how many others have recieved this letter;)

 

Indeed... I doubt I would have received it had I not started bugging them

 

I am not concerned... I am going to send that letter. They already told me they can't put a CCJ on me or enforce the debt, however, I suspect they will get a DCA to harass me

 

I want the default removed...

[cadencealex]

I received a load of guff with another set of generic terms and conditions so today Batty I am posting this!

 

______________________________________________________________

 

 

To Whom It May Concern

 

 

Formal Complaint

 

It is in your company’s interest to read carefully, and act correctly, to the contents of this correspondence to avoid possible future legal action being taken against your company.

 

 

If you do not understand the contents of this correspondence and the legal implications for your company, I suggest you seek professional advice immediately.

 

 

I received an undated letter from you demanding I call you between a certain period. This letter is undated. Further to this I received a generic letter with a standard set of terms and conditions that do not have my signature on.

Turning to the other matter stated in your communication, apparently the alleged account and I quote ‘is being prepared for sale to an external Debt Collection Agency who post this sale will legally own the debt.’

 

For another company to legally own any debt Next Directory would have to conduct an absolute assignment, in principle, the benefit of a contract can be legally assigned without consent of the debtor; however there lies Next Directory’s problem that will prevent an absolute assignment, that being the lack of a contract.

 

Next Directory Ltd, where unable to supply a signed agreement for the alleged account. Therefore, unless you can now produce evidence to the contrary, there is NO CONTRACT for you to assign to anyone.

 

Simply Put Next directory cannot assign the rights and benefits to something that does not exist to a third party.

 

Further more, the lack of a signed contract raises further questions regarding the right of Next Directory to process my data, in so much that Next Directory will struggle to prove if consent was given at all.

No doubt you will counter that claim stating consent was granted, I therefore hold Next Directory to STRICT DOCUMENTORY evidence of any such claim, a simple claim doing something constituted acceptance is not sufficient, I require strict documentary proof any such claim is true.

 

As you have stated you are planning to take an action that would be contrary to any possible fair usage of my data even if you had consent, which is as yet unproven and denied by myself, and that by processing my data you are using it to cause damage and/or distress, I now exercise my right under section 10 of the data protection act. As you have failed to prove consent and I have proof you have no contract to claim that it is necessary to carry out a contract, there is no valid reason for refusal.

 

 

10 Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress

(1) Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons—

(a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and

(b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply—

(a) in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met, or

(b) in such other cases as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State by order.

(3) The data controller must within twenty-one days of receiving a notice under subsection (1) (“the data subject notice”) give the individual who gave it a written notice—

(a) Stating that he has complied or intends to comply with the data subject notice, or

(b) Stating his reasons for regarding the data subject notice as to any extent unjustified and the extent (if any) to which he has complied or intends to comply with it.

(4) If a court is satisfied, on the application of any person who has given a notice under subsection (1) which appears to the court to be justified (or to be justified to any extent), that the data controller in question has failed to comply with the notice, the court may order him to take such steps for complying with the notice (or for complying with it to that extent) as the court thinks fit.

 

I draw your attention to section (3) above you MUST reply to my request made above WITHIN 21 DAYS from the date of receipt of this request stating that you have complied, or your reason for refusal together, as already said, with full documentary evidence regarding consent or proof a contract exists.

 

A simple claim without substantiating evidence IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

 

Also as this matter is now subject to a formal complaint, I also require a copy of your complaints procedure.

 

I hope this matter will now be dealt with in a correct manner to avoid the need for me to commence legal action.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

Mrs Cadencealex

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That letter looks quite official.. hope it's the right one! I edited yours Batty because you referred to letters and stuff and are more meticulous than I am .. I stash paperwork all over the house and can never find it

[cadencealex]

Oooops!!! Just completed my letter to go and post and found theirs!!

 

 

Dear Mrs XXXXX

 

Please find enclosed a true copy of the credit agreement. We are satisfied that this meets with our obligations under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

By way of explanation, under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act, Next must supply an customer with a True Copy of their Credit agreement upon request. For the purposes of Section 78, a True Copy need not be an exact copy or photocopy, as long as it contains every material provision of the agreement signed. This means that it does not need to have non-statutory information which was included for the creditors own benefit or signature boxes. Therefore Next are not required to provide you with a signed copy of the agreement and this made clean in Section 3(2) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations. We are required to provide you with a true copy and a true copy is enclosed.

 

 

In light of this, and in the absence of any evidence to suggest that you did not order and/or receive the goods delivered, Next will continue to seek payment of the balance of XXXX owed by you. It is noted that you neither denied ordering nor receiving Next goods.

 

A default entry has been made on the credit reference file, which may affect the ability to obtain credit in the future. Making payment to clear the balance will enable the credit files to show as satisfied.

 

 

 

 

Do I still send mine above?!!

[guzzleguts]

I take it the true copy is blank, and have you received a default notice.

 

GG

 

Just incase you want anymore info this is my thread on next

 

Help with court/set aside-next cat