Desperate For Help Please

[mercman1969]

I have found this thread hard to write as we have never asked for any help before in our lives

However, life has very suddenly taken a massive change for the worst and as such we have to seek help

 

Prior to our daughters birth in 2005 what little debt we had we managed and paid off every month...well, withthe exception of our martgage

 

Our daughter arrived in August 2005 and has since that time spent alot of time in and out of hospital due to various reasons

 

If that wasnt bad enough, she has also very recently been diagnosed with Brain Stem Cancer

 

You can imagine, our world has been blown apart. Everything has suffered including our business which as it was ran by my wife has slowly gone downhill for last few years. We probably have been foolish in trying to keep it going, but that is a different story

 

FACT is, we find ourselves with a massive amount of debt...mostly on credit cards, but also 2 loans

 

Having been told by a friend of mine to visit this forum and read about CCA's I wondered if anybody with a little more knowledge and experience would kindly guide us through what needs to be done to see if any of this is unenforcable?

 

This is something that I usually would take on if my head was straight...but sure you will appreciate...things are in turmoil at the minute

 

What / How is the simplest path to finding out about CCA's? Sure we have all the agreements somewhere...but dont have time with hospital visits and such like to go hunting for them

 

Regards

 

Merc

[Monty2007]

Hi Merc

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles, there is a lot of information and advice on CAG so you have come to the right place.

 

It is probably best to provide a little more detail and also spend some time reading the various threads in related cases involving your original creditors (OC's) or debt collection agencies (DCA's) that they may have been passed to for collection or assigned to (don't worry about the terminology for now). I assume that you have not been issued with a County Court claim form as yet? also I assume you are based in English jurisdiction?

 

The best approach is to list your creditors and the approximate amout of debt for each and then a brief explanation of the background and where you are (i.e. have you defaulted and what are they demanding). You should also give approximate dates especially when the loans/cards were taken out. Also state if you have a default notice for each one.

 

You should also indicate for each loan/card if there are charges (late payment etc) and also if you took out payment protection insurance (PPI). All of this is re-claimable and will reduce the balance or possibly wipe it clear.

 

The approach is then straightforward. You should undertake a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act (see the documents section) and a request for your credit agreements under S78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 if its a credit card. There are some other tools such as CPR31.16 which can also be used if you are domiciled in England but we will come to that later.

 

This process can take a long time (3 years for me) but if the accounts are pre-2004 the agreements are, in many cases, unenforcable due to either lack of prescribed terms OR the OC has disposed of them. Some Cagers have had a result in weeks, many in months but it depends on many factors. This is not bomb proof by any means but you should read around the threads and look at what people have achieved. Most are in your situation, a change of circumstances caused them to have problems and to compound problems the OC's foreclose and cause trauma and distress. Anyway you will not see many people here being moralistic to banks or DCA's.

 

Ask lots of questions and people will help, it is a great community. Most of all never call the OC or DCA.

[mercman1969]

Monty,

 

Thanks

 

Here...hopefully is a part breakdown of the credit card debt

 

 

 

the loan is an M&S loan taken in 2005 and an HSBC taken in 2005

[mercman1969]

lets see if this works

Credit Card Document.doc

[Monty2007]

Monty,

 

Thanks

 

Here...hopefully is a part breakdown of the credit card debt

 

Credit Card DocumentCard NameBalanceLast CheckedGE money (5413 )31-Dec-08Barclaycard (4929 )31-Dec-08Morgan Stanley (5543 )31-Dec-08CITI platinum (4135 )4077.8831-Dec-08RBS Platinum (4008 )2942.8931-Dec-08Halifax Classic (4556 )031-Dec-08Nationwide Classic (4493 )31-Dec-08M&S More (5299)4409.8631-Dec-08EGG (4627 )9667.331-Dec-08EGG (4627 8540 **** ****)31-Dec-08MBNA (3773 )16187.0131-Dec-08Capital One (5460 )31-Dec-08Paula Halifax Classic (6190)31-Dec-08Halifax ONE (5434)31-Dec-08Sainsbury (5126 )031-Dec-08Barclaycard (4929 )5767.7131-Dec-08Tesco Platinum (5521 )2922.0431-Dec-08Abbey Card (5286 )14380.9531-Dec-08AMEX (Paula) 3746 )31-Dec-08Debenhams (5501 )628.0131-Dec-08Paula Halifax (5434)8254.4131-Dec-08SKY Card (5506)689.0831-Dec-0831-Dec-0831-Dec-0869927.14

 

 

the loan is an M&S loan taken in 2005 and an HSBC taken in 2005

 

I can't read this too well, could you create a line for each. Such as:

 

Credit Cards:

1. Barclaycard. balance £xx, limit £xx, Agreement taken out on xx/xx/xx. Defaulted on xx/xx/xx. Passed to Mercers on xx/xx/xx. Agreed to payment plan of xx. or whatever the situation is with each (briefly).

 

2. Morgan Stanley.

 

Loans

1. Sainsburys

 

etc

[mercman1969]

Hopefully....the word document should be showing

[Monty2007]

lets see if this works

 

This is better but you need to state when they were taken out (approx) and if you have defaulted on any and if so which and what the situation is. You can then prioritise which ones to deal with first.

 

Also best to keep checking your credit reference agency files (Experian etc)

[mercman1969]

Monty,

 

We arenot in default with any of them. We did write 3 months ago asking if they could give ussome grace....just read the suspension letter on this forum and it is so much better than mine

 

We have an agreement which expires this month with MBNA to pay £100 p/mth...this is still attracting interest though

 

Capital One have said they will agree o a nominal payment but we must 1st fill in the detailed expediture form

 

No reply from any of the others...may not have got the right addresses though...just took them offf the backs of the cards!

 

here is an updated word doc to see

Credit Card Document.doc

[mercman1969]

As for when they were taken out...I could only say with any accuracy the following

Abbey Card - Late 06 / early 07

SKY Card - 2008

 

 

The rest are quite old...some as far back as mid 90s

 

Can you check your credit file for free anywhere?

[Goldlady]

Oh that sounds like my life three years ago. I was on the verge of bankruptcy but managed to avoid it.

 

So many of those are unlikely to have valid CCAs depending on when they started. MBNA and Abbey are the biggest ones - and the bigger they are the harder they fall. Irresponsible lending on their part was the key to my near downfall. However them not managing to keep any paperwork saved my bacon.

 

Are any of these with DCAs?

[mercman1969]

Goldlady

 

thanks...made me feel very slightly better knowing somebody else has been where we currently are

 

what is a DCA? - Debt Collection Agencey?

 

NO....we are not in default with anything at the minute...have had to suspend our maortgage for 12 mths to have some money to eat though

 

Its a case of our income has dropped by £20+ year as wife looks after our daughter

 

it really needs addressing now before we loose the roof over our heads though

[Goldlady]

debt collection agency - but you have already said that you are trying to sort this out so presumably the answer is not.

 

I found CAG because so many of my creditors would not accept reduced payments or freeze interest even though I had sent them a letter via the Citizens Advice Bureau. Then I CCA'd the ones who were being nasty and discovered in all cases that they didn't have valid agreements and therefore could not enforce the debts in court.

 

I have no guilt about this because I worked out that what was still owed was interest and charges - I had long since repaid the capital.

 

I am still paying some of the ones who agreed to freeze interest and accept my reduced payments. I have sent them CCA requests and found that they too have no agreements, but as they were fair with me I am being fair with them.

[Monty2007]

Monty,

 

We arenot in default with any of them. We did write 3 months ago asking if they could give ussome grace....just read the suspension letter on this forum and it is so much better than mine

 

We have an agreement which expires this month with MBNA to pay £100 p/mth...this is still attracting interest though

 

Capital One have said they will agree o a nominal payment but we must 1st fill in the detailed expediture form

 

No reply from any of the others...may not have got the right addresses though...just took them offf the backs of the cards!

 

here is an updated word doc to see

 

Ok, this needs some thought and you need to decide on what you are trying to achieve. The ones in arrears may default you at some point or sell the debt to a DCA. If you follow the credit agreement challenge route, i.e. challenge the validity/enforcability then you will need to request a copy under Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act (see Templates section).

 

What you should also know (and read as many threads as you can) is that in the case of an invalid credit agreement the debt still exists but cannot be enforced. You may have to get involved in defending a County Court Claim so there are risks but you need to decide this.

 

I would leave Amex until last, and don't move to Scotland.

 

Others may be able to comment on the best strategy but I would suggest that you request the MBNA agreement and post it up. If you then decide it is non-enforcable you may need to consider causing a default through stopping payments. You are in an unusual situation since although you have a lot of unsecured debt you are not in default and your credit rating is not shot to bits like many of us, so you do have more to lose as such.

 

I suggest we get some other opinions and you can then decide your next steps. Which cards are the oldest?

[Monty2007]

Great Goldlady has joined, you should certainly read all of her threads. Amazing what she has done.

[Goldlady]

Thanks Monty;). It's amazing what you can do when life cr*ps on you from a great height......

 

Mercman I presume you own your own house. Whilst I would never advocate bankruptcy, although I almost did it myself, how much equity have you got? Being realistic.

[mercman1969]

Thanks folks

 

i am the sort that wears my heart on my sleeve and thank you for making my head a little better

 

What are we trying to achieve....well to be able to live I suppose

 

We will hold our hands up and say we have been stupid...I suppose we continued to live our life the way we always had done...even when our circumstances changed for the worst

 

Ultimatley...our focus is firmly upon our daughter.......it certainly puts alot into perspective when your told news like that

 

anything that can be written off would certainly make a massive difference to us as mot of or money is spent on fuel and such like back and forth to hospital

 

If it wasnt for our mortgage lenders agreeing t a payment holiday we would certainly be in alot deeper thanwe are now and i suppose it might have tipped me over the edge

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Mercman,

 

Firstly, I am so sorry about your little girl. You have been through so much and her recent diagnosis must have left you reeling with shock. I cannot imagine for one moment what you are going through.

 

Being practical, I think under the circumstances you should write to all the card companies explaining your situation if you haven't already done so.

 

Thirdly, send off for the Original CCAs - letters to be sent can be found on this site.

 

Fourth, you must let us know here the exact dates you took the cards out. Recent ones are more likely to be enforceable - older ones less so.

 

From my own experience - and I only joined this site in December and it has saved my sanity - Capital One aren't producing any enforceable agreements from the early 2000s. Morgan Stanley was sold to Barclaycard and BC may not have the original agreements. BC may also not have their own original agreements - certainly a lot of us are waiting for them, and BC are trying everything to avoid saying they don't have them.

 

Fifth, go on to search and key in all your credit cards one by one and you will see all the threads. I highly recommend Sunflower99's on Capital One. You wouldn't believe you could laugh about any of this? You will here. Sunflower's group is very supportive but we can actually laugh about some aspects of it too - winding up the Capone idiots is our current challenge -and it really is cheering us up despite the horror of being in all this debt.

 

Like you, most of us were managing to pay our way with our cards, even if not paying off as much as we would have liked, and then suddenly plummeted so quickly into our current messes.

 

Hang in there. You will find so much support on CAG.

 

DD xx

[mercman1969]

Equity........realistically....next to none

we remortgaged to setle big bills the last time in 2006

 

House is up for sale, but i doubt we would get much more than what is owed for it

[mercman1969]

Daniella

 

Thanks....cant believe the massive support already given towards me

[Monty2007]

Equity........realistically....next to none

we remortgaged to setle big bills the last time in 2006

 

House is up for sale, but i doubt we would get much more than what is owed for it

 

mercman. Good to see you are getting lots of advice and opinions that will help you explore your options. You really have to make the decision and you have had a tough time of it already. If you go the BR route then its over quickly (one year) and if there is little equity in the house then you may get to keep it. There are a few experts on BR on CAG and you should look at this as an option.

 

You are in the unusual position of addressing these issues much earlier than most people so you do have more options at present.

 

Other than BR the other options are a debt management plan or IVA - these don't really make much sense IMO, especially for large and multiple debts.

 

The other option is the one you enquired about, getting some, most or potentially all of the unsecured debt declared unenforcable. So if you were to get 50% + written off would this be a goal? If so you can get to work on those debts that are easier pickings and work through to a debt ration that gives you a chance of getting on top of it all. I suppose you need to do your own income and expenditure calculation and look at when you need to act on each.

[mercman1969]

Monty,

 

Thanks again...i would prefer to not go the BR route if at all possible - I dont think my mental state would take it with te thought of possibly losing our home

 

I think, although I appreciate it might take some time - I would prefer to go the unenforcable route

[Monty2007]

Monty,

 

Thanks again...i would prefer to not go the BR route if at all possible - I dont think my mental state would take it with te thought of possibly losing our home

 

I think, although I appreciate it might take some time - I would prefer to go the unenforcable route

 

I think I would do the same in your case. Ok, you need to decide who is first, second and third on your list. If you take one at a time to begin with then you will get the hang of it.

 

Read the past and current CAG cases on each creditor (most are listed) and ask lots of questions. The letters you will need are in the docs section and it is best to post up any items if you need them to be checked.

 

In your case you will be able to see what they have in terms of an enforcable agreement before defaulting, if they have something that looks enforcable then you can keep them as ones you will either continue to pay or seek to agree a deal (reduced settlement).

 

You will see the various responses following a default. In some cases they mess it up and they give you more ammo, usually you will get passed to a DCA or two and just keep going through the process until they either cave in or litigate. If they litigate without an enforcable agreement then you will have to potentially go to court but most never get that far. If they mess up on the default (and many do) you can nail them twice!

 

Best to spend a lot of time on some good threads and get your targets identified.

[mercman1969]

Thanks

 

MBNA 1st

Cap One 2nd

EGG 3rd

M&S 4th

Haifax 5th

Abbey 6th - fairly recent card tho

 

So, is it a case now then off sending off the intial letter asking or the CCA?

 

Is there a list of addresses to ensure it goes to the right place?

[Monty2007]

Thanks

 

MBNA 1st

Cap One 2nd

EGG 3rd

M&S 4th

Haifax 5th

Abbey 6th - fairly recent card tho

 

So, is it a case now then off sending off the intial letter asking or the CCA?

 

Is there a list of addresses to ensure it goes to the right place?

 

Most creditors sorted out defunct agreements after 2004, so go with the older/bigger ones as you have.

 

The address should be the head office for the credit card company, usually on the statement or any official letters you get. Ensure that you include the £1 payment and use a scanned signature - some will suggest not signing at all. Always send the request by recorded or guaranteed next day delivery so you have proof of postage and keep a log of each so you can see which come into default of your request. You can then stop paying them if you wish. Since you have no defaults this is probably not worth it until you see what they have.

 

If they have your telephone number then you may want to look at either getting a new number or call barring since if they send your account to a DCA it is not pleasant to get lots of calls. If they do you can get them to stop but it takes a while and a few letters.

 

If they produce an application then you may well do a CPR31.16 request which you should read about at some point. Also do an SAR request, do you have any charges or PPI to claim back?

 

Read the MBNA threads.

[jansus]

Hi

 

glad to see you are getting lots of help here.

 

Can I just ask one question - when you say you have a payment holiday on our mortgage is that because you considered the loans and credit cards a priority over your mortgage?

 

Have you considered contacting the National debtline and getting a DMP?

 

And then you can still pursue the agreement enforcibility with help from the people on here. Your mortgage should really always come first .

 

I am so sorry to hear of your situation and I hope the help and support you get here will help you - even if only a little.