HSBC Charges / Managed loans

[bones01]

Hi i am after some help here please . i have had a hsbc account since i was 16 , i have had a creidt card and 2 personal loans and an overdraft. They put me on a managed loan to apparantly help me as was getting charges on charges . Th e interest is shocking , after having a few refunds for charges i am awaiting ,my last one but it has been put on hold due to curt case . i have been thinking , my loan is made up of some unfair charges so surely if they have rebated me some they must realise that they are charging me interest on unfair charges that the loan is made up of .plus i hve never claimed for my cc charges or a previous loan that had ppi that is now fully paid off .

Where do you suggest i start and is there any chance/point of getting it looked at ?. i have paid nothing off the loan cause of the interest in 2 years . i have asked them change interest , they not interested ........

please help

thanks x x:cry::cry:

[freakyleaky]

Thread moved to HSBC forum.

[bones01]

hi Can any one help please ,................

Thanks xx:)

[johnnymitch]

hi Can any one help please ,................

Thanks xx:)

 

Hi i am after some help here please . i have had a hsbc account since i was 16 , i have had a creidt card and 2 personal loans and an overdraft. They put me on a managed loan to apparantly help me as was getting charges on charges . Th e interest is shocking , after having a few refunds for charges i am awaiting ,my last one but it has been put on hold due to curt case .

Hi bones , welcome to the forum

A managed loan is the worst kind of legal theft and very difficult to get out of. You could try pointing out to them that this is a short-term type of loan which should be re-structured to suit your ability to pay. But it may fall on deaf ears, in which case you may want to report them to the Financial Ombudsman Service(FOS) for failing in their duty of customer care ......

Treating customers fairly

Have a look at the link below, it may help you with further action re your ML (there are also some other links on it for reclaiming bank charges.........)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/162162-advice-managed-loan-please.html

i have been thinking , my loan is made up of some unfair charges so surely if they have rebated me some they must realise that they are charging me interest on unfair charges that the loan is made up of .plus i hve never claimed for my cc charges or a previous loan that had ppi that is now fully paid off .

They won’t admit that these charges are unfair, therefore they won’t consider that the loan is made up of anything but ‘fair’ charges.

You say your current claim for refund of current account charges is on hold due to the court case – do you mean it is ‘stayed’ by the court , or just on hold on HSBC’s say-so? If it’s the latter you should try to get your claim to court , where, yes, it will be ‘stayed’... but earning 8% interest while it’s waiting and it definitely puts your account ‘in dispute’ and protects the 6-year back-date if that is applicable. (See the above link for claiming .......)

Where do you suggest i start and is there any chance/point of getting it looked at ?. i have paid nothing off the loan cause of the interest in 2 years . i have asked them change interest , they not interested ........

I would say also, that you should look at reclaiming your cc charges if you think they were unfair, and PPI if you consider it was mis-sold......(there is a very good PPI site on this forum , which you could have a look at ).

 

please help

thanks x x

Take each action a step at a time and you'll get there, but there is no quick fix, I'm afraid...... if you get any refunds from the other claims, i.e. PPI and CC charges try to use them to reduce your managed loan.

If you are in any doubt about any of the procedures , just come back and ask – we’re user-friendly on here . There may be other helpful advice from other members of the site , so keep looking from time to time .....

.

Edited January 10, 2009 by johnnymitch
Tidying up .........

[bones01]

thanks for your help i am going to start by tackling on eoption at a time and see how i go ......

I am going to open another account as a parachute as the people on here have said they have had problems with HSBC closing accounts and that is our sole one .....

My claim i was told by HSBC was going to have to wait till the courts made a decision i have not applied to any courts etc .? should i ? and how ?

I ahve spoke to them before to change the rate but they say that you will just have to applyt for another loan if you want to change as this ..

I did CCa them about a year ago , and they sent me something back it was signed from what i can remember but am unsure if this was enforcable as i was pregnant and things got puut in safe places that i could never find again ....

Should i cca them again or perhaps SAR as i need to find old cc acc no and old loan acc no that had ppi on to claim and dont have these , so shouldnt they send me a CCA for each in a SAR ?.

Sorry for waffling just trying to get my head around what i need to do to start ..

thanks again x x x x

[johnnymitch]

Hi again bones01

 

A very good idea to open a 'parachute account' - it keeps the money you need for everyday living out of HSBC's control.........don't go overderawn on it though ......... this link may help.........

 

Parachute Account

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/13832-do-you-need-parachute.html

 

 

Also I would send them a SAR - costs £10 but well worth it :

 

Getting started with a claim (courtesy of pete castlebest )

All of the answers to your questions are in the frequently asked questions section in red at the top of this site; this includes a step by step guide to reclaiming your bank charges

 

There is also a bank templates library that contains templates for all the letters you need that you can adapt to your own circumstances.

 

If you have any problems just post them here and one of us will be along to help you.

 

Best of Luck

 

SAR (Subject Access Request

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

 

Explanation –what a SAR is

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/subject_access_-_guide_for_data_subjects.pdf

 

It has nothing to do with the bank why you need your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) information, they have a legal obligation to provide ALL of the records they hold on you when you request it. This includes ALL of your accounts ALL of their internal notes and ALL of their correspondence ANYTHING with your name on it, and all for £10

 

they should send you anything with your name on it for any account of yours they have for a single Subject Access Request. This has nothing to do with how many accounts you hold with them its a request for all and any data they hold concerning you, this includes

copies of correspondence,

copies of internal notes,

copies of any telephone recordings or a transcript of the recording copies of statements of account

and last but not least a copy of the terms and conditions agreed to by you governing the account.

literally anything with your name on it or about you... and all for £10.00 - bargain!

 

If you make this your first step , you can move in any direction from there .... again , come back if you need further help. Others may come in with further advice , so keep your eye on your thread......

Edited January 13, 2009 by johnnymitch
Tidying up font markings .........

[bones01]

thanks so much for your help . I will send then a SAR this week some time and open a parachute account this weekend , i will re post when recieve something .. Thanks again

bones

[johnnymitch]

You're welcome bones ,

 

Keep us posted , we'd like to hear how you get on with your claim.

[bones01]

hi all ,just an update .... have been in touch with hsbc to see if they would look at the rate of the managed loan and as i expected they all said no it does not change unless you re apply for a new personal loan ............ WHAT !!!!!!!!! only another 10 years to go then on this one

So i have now sent off a SAR for my accounts cc etc and when get it i will calculate all the cahrges and ppi for all the sepearate accounts deduct the refunds had a few years ago and then see how much is left .

A few questions please

A) how long do i give them to reply ?

B) how would i get them to understand that the managed loan is made up of some unlawful charges that thay are now charging me interest on?

C) can i dispute this and not pay till we have reached an agreement ?

D)has any one ever suceeded in this ?

 

i will just wait no till they reply , should get a cca for all asweel so can have a look at the credit agreements ....

Any suggestions on the best way to tackle this would be greatly appreciated , as am determind to get this sorted now and am sick of them ignoring me when i try to get things sorted .......

I have also sent of a claim of hardship letter to get my other claim un satyed .... will see where get with that .....

Have done as jonnymitch said and went to open a parachute account from nationwide on saturday so am waiting for paperwork on that so can move accounts ....

 

 

thanks agina for all your help .

for any refunds i get in this will donate generously as would not have been able to do this with out all the help of you guys so thanks agian ....

 

 

x x x

[bones01]

BUMP

 

hi again can any one help with the above please and also

just found my contract for the managed loan and the figures just dont add up

 

it says loan 10395.00

period 144

 

repayment

 

the repayment details below assume no changes in the interest rate , if it changes we will notify you of revised paymemnt blah blah

143 repayments of £138.11 each commencing on1st may 2007 and on same date each month there after and a final payment of £138.11 payable on 31 march 2019

any arrangement fee/security fee payable when sign

APR 13.00%

 

then another lots of bumpf then says total charge for credit comprising £9508.63

total interest £ 9508.63

 

arrang fee £0.00

 

i might be wrong here but if i add the amount of loan and the charge for interest it equals £ 19903.62

but if you add up 143 payments of £138.11 and final paymemnt of £138.11 you get £19887.84

 

?????????????? i am confused ???????

thanks

[bones01]

bump any one please

[johnnymitch]

Sorry bones , I thought I replied to this yesterday , but my post obviously didn't 'take' for some reason...

 

Technically you are right - but the discrepancy is £15 . in your favour .

 

I can see that they've used the same figure 'in error' instead of the balancing figure, so you may be able to query it ..... personally I can't see why they didn't just make it 144 weeks @ £138.22 ...... . (That's what comes of trusting calculators..... lol..)

 

As regards your previous post (which I missed due to being away on 16th..) I think most of your questions were answered by my threads #4 and #6 but to reiterate ......

 

A few questions please

A) how long do i give them to reply ?

 

They have 40 calendar days to comply with a SAR , from the date they received it , which you may know exactly if you sent it 'Recorded Delivery)

 

B) how would i get them to understand that the managed loan is made up of some unlawful charges that thay are now charging me interest on?

 

They won’t admit that these charges are unfair, therefore they won’t consider that the loan is made up of anything but ‘fair’ charges.

 

C) can i dispute this and not pay till we have reached an agreement ?

Well done on opening a parachute account , bones ... that gives you breathing space, but I'd say wait till it's up and running before you tackle the 'stop payment ' question . That way HSBC can't commandeer money you haven't got ...

 

Also concentrate on getting your 'unfair charges', claim to court , so that the account is definitely 'In Dispute' .

 

 

D)has any one ever suceeded in this ?

 

I believe there were a few in the days before the OFT case but the banks are hiding behind the case now to do absolutely nothing ..... even although Loans and Credit cards don't come under the OFT case ....

 

I'm hoping pete castlebest may be along soon - he's better at Managed Loans than I am ......

[Castlebest]

Hiya Bones I've only quickly scanned your thread but a couple of things spring to mind.

 

Wait to see what you get from your SAR, if you don't get a copy of the terms and conditions governing your loan to establish if the "debt" is enforceable write and tell them they are in breach of the data protection act. if you still get no joy send them a Consumer Credit Act section 77 request.

 

secondly, I see you have found cadencealex thread, it looks very similar to your situation, atwozee has posted some really good advice there

 

pete

[bones01]

hi thanks for getting back to me

so ill wait fro the sar and see what happens ......

as regard to my claim for unfair charges , am i right in thinking that the letter i sent for hardship as in another post will work ?

 

as to the managed loan, am i right in thinking as in other posts , if the prescribed terms are wrong/omitted then it is unenforcable??

as mine is?

 

thanks

[bones01]

hi castle best , sorry i did not notice that you had replyed aswell sorry

 

i sent them a cca a while ago and all the prescribed things are on there and there is terms and conditions as well , yes have been watching closely the other thread as they are just slightly ahead of me so will be great to watch and learn what to do . This is how i noticed that mine dont add up aswell .

I have done what cadencealex has done with regards to the letter asking them to explain if the interest payments are correct and will await their response , i sent it by e mail as they have done so is quicker .

all informed as to what they come back with.

Have also recieved a letter today from HSBC about my refund of charges as sent them a hardship letter as johhny mitch was asking . They have sent me a letter back saying that they are sorry that i am having difficulites and they want me to fill in expenditures form and have discussion with me about was of borrowing money and the refund to help me haha ........

Just like they did with the managed loan and look who that helped them not me ..................

Should i fill this form in & let them go through the hardship claim see if will refund , whilst waiting for my SAR? As there will be more charges to refund from other accounts when get SAR ?

thanks again sorry for ranting , they just get on my wick

[bones01]

sent letter other day for description of managed loan interest via the e amil address on other thread and got this back

 

Dear Mr & Mrs. bones

 

Thank you for your recent e-message.

 

I regret I am unable to assist you in this regard via this messaging service.

 

At present, you are e-mailing us via our feedback facility. This is secure, but our systems do not authenticate the user, preventing us from responding to any specific account related queries received this way.

 

However, may I request you to use our 'My Messages' secure messaging function located within our Personal Internet Banking service and experts in this department will handle your account related enquiry. Once you have logged on to Internet Banking, please select 'My Messages' from the left-hand tool bar followed by the option to create a new message regarding the interest calculation for the account. My colleague will be glad to assist you further in this regard.

 

Alternatively, please call our Customer Service Centre on the number below and my colleagues there will be glad to assist you:

 

Telephone: 08457 404404, +44 1226 261010 (International)

 

8 am to 10 pm everyday (except Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year's Day)

 

Alternatively, you can write to your account holding branch or visit any HSBC local branch with suitable photo identification like valid passport or permanent driving licence and my colleagues there will assist you further.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

Lulu John

Internet Banking Customer Support

 

 

good start , so resent again .... has anyone else had this ???

Edited February 26, 2009 by bones01

[johnnymitch]

Hi bones , haven't heard of it , may be a new ploy to timewaste ...

 

btw for safety & security could you please go back and edit your post to take out your names , you never know who is nosing on the site .....

[bones01]

thanks have done

[bones01]

hi all sent sar to hsbc last week , they have sent me a letter saying that relating to the account you have asked for charges to claim back here is basically a brief summary of my account and if you want anymore then look on internet .we assume that you have asked for the info to claim back cahrges and here is a guide line to them. and they returned my ten pounds po ?

 

few questions thought sar was anything to do with any account /cc/loan that you have ever had with them and all the correspondance to go with it ?

how do i answer this to them?

do i give them the deadline from the origiobal letter as have not complied ?

 

thanks am bit confused

:)x

[Castlebest]

Hiya Bones, the bank are just being lazy and also trying to limit their possible loss, most people are happy with a list of their charges to allow them to claim back their money however this is not what the bank are supposed to provide when they receive an SAR and we have had many cases where the additional information (copy letters etc) provided by the bank do not conform with the statutory regulations and actually give you further cause for complaint.

 

Have a look at what_todo's thread, I think they are slightly in front of you

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/180009-hsbc-sent-my-sar.html

 

If you have any questions just ask us here

 

pete

[bones01]

hi thanks castlebest for replying , yeah found there posts yesterday and already have a copy of their letter printed ready to send monday , just needed a bit of clarification that this was the right way to follow

will send special delivery tomorrow thanks again

will keep you posted

[bones01]

hi

am back again

 

HSBC rang me today, from their data protection team stating that the below letter that i origionally sent them ( sar) was not correctly stated and this is why they sent me a list of transactions for my account , so when i sent them the following letter , stating that they had not complied with my request and the 40 day deadline still applied that this is wrong .

She told me that now i had clarified what i wanted that the 40 day deadline was from now .

I said that i believe this incorrect and the 40 day still applied from origionla letter , she said fine not arguing about it as long as was clear that the bank are taking 40 days as of now .

I told her that i need it all in writing what they are saying , and the end of it was that i did not agree with them !

 

Is the following letter that i sent from the forum , incorrect to a certain degree as she is saying , or am i still well within my rights to say the deadline i origionally gave still applies ???

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: blah blah & all accounts / creditcards /loans realting to the above account

 

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

thanks

the origional letter x

[johnnymitch]

Hi bones 01

 

Looking again at that SAR from the forum - the second sentence in the first paragraph is somewhat ambiguous..... I know what it's suppose to mean , but if there's another interpretation they'll find it - especially if it's to their advantage - I may try to draw a Mod's attention to it - and ask for their opinion .....

 

Meanwhile , will it hurt to play their silly game of 40 days from now .. ?

I know it's annoying , but ........... they've got to produce sometime , eh ?

[MARTIN3030]

Yes agreed-its a little long winded.

The original CAG temps included references to Manual intervention because no one was clear as to whether any banks would in fact rely on this in their defence.As it turned out it was of little significance since they were usually unwilling to send details or acknowledge it.

 

More important is the request itself which should be specific.

 

Section 7 (3) of the Data protection act states;

 

that a data controller is not obliged to comply with a request unless they are supplied with such information as they may reasonably require in order to locate the information which the subject seeks.

 

"Open ended requests " as they are known-is one of the reasons data controllers are able to hold up compliance.

 

other reasons that they can sometimes hold back a request are;

 

proof of Identity (section 7 3 a.

and;

Disproportionate effort; Section 8.2.a

 

 

The 40 days starts when they recieve payment,and are satisfied the request meets criteria under the DPA.

Where they require further info/proof then the 40 days start from when they have it.

 

 

 

Asking for a copy of all statements from XXXX to XXXX is sufficient,since these show all transactions.asking for transactions showing charges etc is actually not a good idea.

 

Some banks DO send these instead of complete statements,but you are better asking specifically for copy statements,since these will show interest figures.

Edited March 13, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[bones01]

ok thanks , so if i spoke to them today and they are now claer that i want the full sar , then the 40 days start from now then ?

 

She asked if i want full statements etc, i said yes and for all the accounts and cards and loans , i said yes , so she obviously now knows i want everything .

Is there another letter that i can send just to re iterate , that i want the full SAR , rather than wait and they dont turn up with it all ? especially if i am paying £10

thanks for you help

x