Abbey: A Draft Alternative Approach

[give_me_it_back]

Hi Sandra. Please see Scottish threads here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/scotland/

 

It's best to ask Scottish related questions there, as the English side is quite different and can confuse. Have you started your own thread? My thread (which you may find of interest as I am just ahead of you) is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/scotland/11622-give_me_it_back-abbey.html

[Glenn UK]

FWIW

 

I have sent a prelim letter based on some statements i had from the abbey.

 

Although I did sent out the SAR 14 days before I sent the prelim letter, i am not worrying too much about a claim under DPA if they dont send all the data.

 

The bottom line is I will progress with my est claim, if they dont like the amount they can provide the data. I am pretty certain that the est is on the high side,

 

I have only claimed for three years worth of statements, if they still havent sent all the data i need i will submit another est claim for the prevoious three years.

 

The account was opened in 1997, so ultimately I will proceed on the same basis until the judge accepts their arguments under the limitation act, abbey give me the info or pay me out, whatever comes first.

 

I think the important point about an estimated claim is that there is some logic to the way you calculate it, it actually doesnt matter to the court what the actual number is.

 

Just a thoght really, but if the claim is too high i suspect it will stimulate abbey to provide the relevant details.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[kia]

good point so i dont really need the actual statements to proceed cause i dont want two cases goung at the same time i just go with the estimated claim and if theres any comebacks they can explain why they never sent me all the statements despite repeated letters requesting them

[Kathie]

Kathie V Abbey

 

Hi I have not had internet access for a while - So now I'm back on the trail! - I received my statements from Abbey and am now about to check all of them - However they have contacted me and said my account is going to an outside debt agency - although I have said verbally and in writing that the account is in dispute they will not confirm they agree and just seem to be following their normal procedures -! - my account is now nearly £400 over the agreed overdraft limit all caused by charges -

 

I'm going to search through templates library as I'm unsure if the next step - for the best format for my next letter and best way to calculate the amounts - but any advice or tips would be helpful - I don't have an income at the moment as I was made redundant in April - should I tell Abbey this or is it irrelevant at this stage as my account cannot be used??

 

Thanks

[lj.williams]

Hi can you help me. I have sent the first letter to Abbey after receiving a statement with £80 charges on it.

I received the template letter from abbey, that someone will be investigating.

Since then I have now received my next statement and there are another £120 charges on it.

 

My question is, do I start again with the first letter for the grand total amount (both statements) or do I just amend the claim amount in the second letter?

 

Please help I do not want to mess this up

[Lula]

Hi can you help me. I have sent the first letter to Abbey after receiving a statement with £80 charges on it.

I received the template letter from abbey, that someone will be investigating.

Since then I have now received my next statement and there are another £120 charges on it.

 

My question is, do I start again with the first letter for the grand total amount (both statements) or do I just amend the claim amount in the second letter?

 

Please help I do not want to mess this up

 

LJ, firstly you need to start your own thread then you (and we) can easily see your progress and any pitfalls that you come across,

 

Dont worry about the other charges you can just amend them when you make your claim.

 

Good Luck

[lisamorrell]

Hi

 

I'm trying to find the first letter to send to Abbey in the library - I have some back statements but I do not have them for the past 6 years. I need the template to request details of all of my past charges.

 

Do you know where I find this....please help.

 

Thank you

 

Lisa

[gracep]

Hi everyone, just found this thread and didnt realise that abbey's standard acknowledgement letter was a refusal. taken your advice and sent them the letter you have suggested. Also tried phoning them, but getting the run a round. I'll keep you posted. thanks again

[Armsoft]

Mark, welcome to the CAG.

As you have posted this at the end of someone elses thread, its quite possible that the site moderators won`t pick it up.

Start a new thread of your own (just copy/paste your original thread) and I`m sure it will get picked up and responded too.

Good Luck

[Guest amethystdragon]

Having read this thread and also having most of my charges for the last 8 years I was wondering whether it was worth following this pattern to reclaim my charges as I am coming up to the 15th day since my SAR's were sent off

 

Link to my progress thread:http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/37391-amethystdragon-abbey.html

 

Thanks

 

Joanne

[Guest willowb]

I've been waiting about 2 months for my statements, have complained to the ICO etc but still waiting:mad: . I don't have any historical statements to go off only my hubbies memory about how high the charges were some months. So, does that mean I can't send an estimate of charges, i've been asking in my thread here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/23501-willowb-abbey.html

 

Any help would be appreciated:)

 

wxx

[Guest amethystdragon]

Well I've just received a letter today saying that they are sending me my microfiche statements - I suspect that they've been playing at delaying tatics waiting to see if the Information Commissioner will rule in their favour - now its gone against them I bet you'll see something soon - Hopefully

 

But from what I've read elsewhere - I would just send in an estimate of charges with an LBA

[Glenn UK]

I think the primary purpose of this approach was to try to force abbey into providing the data.

 

 

It didn't work for me, personally I wouldn't enter an estimated claim at court, except may in support of a claim for non-compliance of Sec 7 of the data protection act as damages.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

 

PS if you are still waiting i would enter a claim under Sec 7 of DPA, if you haven't sent a LBA in this respect id send one and then claim.

 

I will pass on the info to our contact at the ICO and let her know that people are still waiting see if there is anything she can do.

[Guest willowb]

Thanks Glenn......

 

Sent an LBA out to them last week, but that was for a default removal on the same account.

 

Don't know what to do now, I don't know wether the charges make up the defaulted amount so that's why I was going to issue Court proceedings to have it removed. If I had the statements my decision would be easier, as it is I'll have to proceed with the default removal and hope the statements arrive soon.

 

If I do issue Court proceedings over the default this won't affect a case against unlawful charges will it, even though it's the same account in dispute?

 

Wxx

[Glenn UK]

Willow

 

My view is to get the data 1st so i would issue a claim for non compliance.

 

When you get some data you can them claim for the charges and the default removal together.

 

If you try to get the default removed without knowing the charges levied then on what basis would you ask the court to remove it? The problem is if its based on unfair charges you will need evidence to support the claim for removal.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Guest willowb]

Hi Glenn,

thanks for the response. Here's my thread in legalities.....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/31110-abbey-default-removal.html

 

I'm getting the default removed because a) they have not supplied me with the origional default notice within the statutory time limit and b) using SurlyBond's templates and sheer genius:D because they have no right to keep controlling/processing my data after the contract has ended under certain terms in the Data Protection Act etc.

 

So, the dilema is.....I could carry on with this, get the default removed (hopefully) and then go after them for unlawful charges if/when I get the statements or I could take the chance that the charges equal the default amount and wait but then, I have already sent an LBA to them!

 

Don't know really what the best thing to do is:|

 

Would appreciate your and anyone else's thoughts on this.

 

Thank you

Wxx

[vonz]

I AM REALLY GLAD TO HAVE SIGNED UP - EVEN THOUGH i HAVE BEEN GETTING THE EMAIL FOR AGES - I AM GOING TO TAKE ON MY BANK (ABBEY), BUT THEY DID SAY I'D HAVE TO WAIT 4-6 WEEKS FOR COPY STATEMENTS

PITY I HAVE TO DO THIS, COS IN MANY WAYS, THIS BANK HAS BEEN HELPFUL, BUT THEY ARE JUST KILLING ME WITH THE CHARGES

[give_me_it_back]

Vonz. Please start your own thread so we can follow the process. Please follow the guidelines given on the site. Do not accept Abbey's 'it will take 4 - 6 weeks' - they MUST stick to YOUR timetable (and so must you!)

[Guest willowb]

Right well, it seems to me like I'll be waiting forever for a) crabbey to send me the statements and b) for the ICO to get back to me about it or infact DO anything about it.

 

So, I am going to send my N1 form in and file a claim against them for non-compliance for a) not providing me a with a cerified copy of the default notice and b) not supplying me with the requested statements within the correct time frame.

 

They are both non-compliance DPA issues so I expect this will be ok? If there's any reason I can't do this will someone let me know please:)

 

Will be doing this on thursday, I'll post my particulars here and in my legalities thread.

 

Wxx

[Glenn UK]

Willow

 

Don't forget to include some damages on the N1, if you do the cost of the claim will be based on the vaue you place on it.

 

I put down a fiver damages for my non-compliance claim against the Co-op and therefore the fee was £30.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

 

PS if you want to see what POC i used then look in Glenn vs co-op. JonChiors kindly commented and his turn of phrase was quite useful.

[Guest willowb]

Hi Glenn,

 

Thanks for the reply. I took Dayglo's advice on this and went with a non-montary claim with Barclaycard....his argument is good and the fact that the issue (default removal) is very clear suits me.

 

This is becoming a common question and there are two views. You must choose which one you think represents the best choice for you. I'll try explain, as I see it, what the issues are.

 

1) A non-monetary claim costs £150 in court fees and cannot be done online, must be done in person via an N1 form. You can download a copy from the library, fill in the brief details and particulars of claim I used the following for mine

 

Quote:

"The Claimant signed a civil contract with the defendant on dd/mm/ccyy in which it was agreed that the disclosure of personal data in relation to the contract would extend only to such times as the conclusion of the contract.

At no time did the Claimant grant permission, either expressly or implied, for the defendant to abritrarily extend that permission to store, process or disclose any personal data beyond the cessation date of the contract.

It is the Claimant's contention that the defendant's perceived right to abritrarily choose to extend the length of that contract without the Claimant's knowledge or agreement would be unlawful and unenforceable under the provisions of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999).

The defendant has failed to provide the Claimant with any evidence to prove agreement to such terms in perpetuity, and it is therefore the Claimant's contention that the defendant is in breach of both the contract itself and the Data Protection Act 1998, by the defendant's continued disclosure of personal data."

 

That way, the only issue you are discussing is the default.

 

The other alternative, as mentioned by gargoil, is indeed to add an amount of 'damages' and present the case as though the 'damages' is the main issue and 'removal of default' is secondary. This puts it inline with the normal charging mechanism that is already well understood as follows

 

up to £300

£30

£300.01 - £500

£50

£500.01 - £1,000

£80

£1,000.01 - £5,000

£120

£5,000.01 - £15,000

£250

£15,000.01 - £50,000

£400

£50,000.01 - £100,000

£700

£100,000.01 - £150,000

£900

£150,000.01 - £200,000

£1,100

£200,000.01 - £250,000

£1,300

£250,000.01 - £300,000

£1,500

over £300,000 or for an unlimited amount

£1,700

To issue proceedings where your claim is for something

other than money

 

£150

 

The downside with this method is that, if it ever does reach a court then you have to prove your damages. That is actually quite hard to do when you think about it. If you claim for 'distress' you would have to show medical evidence to back this up. In my opinion, you risk losing the 'default' agrument because of the 'damages' claim and an attempt to save some money on court fees.

The upside of this method is that if it doesn't go to court, then the company in question may just agree to pay you your damages claim (if it's lower than the cost of them defending). Ffocus did this with Vodafone and looks like walking away with a removed default and £1k in his pocket - well done him.

My preference though is to keep it to the real issue in hand which is the default removal only claim and that is £150, N1 in court in person.

Good luck.

I don't know how to play it with Abbey, I'll have a think about it.

Wxx

[Glenn UK]

Willow

 

i think the damages can be arbitrarily low such that it is easy to argue and can seen as supplementary to the non compliance with the DPA/CCA aspects.

 

I put a notional claim for a fiver on my claim against Co-op, it would be simple to show simply by writing a letter that their non-compliance had put you to such an effort and therefore justify the value IMHO.

 

I'm my claim I have been paid the damages abut have asked the court to enforce the claim on the basis that the defendant supplies the data or lodges a statement to the court why it cant.

 

I'm not saying this is suitable for everyone but its OK for my claim.

 

So i guess different routes for different people, your/Dayglos approach is certainly very clear.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Guest willowb]

Hi Glenn,

 

Just read through some of your posts, noticed the one about not using PO Box addresses on N1 forms...realised that I had with barclaycard, opened the envelope (was going to post it today, I sent it last week actually but it came back to me as the Court requires 3 copies to be sent! )

 

So, maybe this is my second chance to do it differently. Hummmm what to claim for? in monetary terms....recorded delivery letters? what d'ya think?

 

I dunno but £30 is looking much better than £150 to me!

 

Wxx

[Glenn UK]

Willow

 

Well I can only say that I cant remember where i saw the bit about PO boxes but i think its to do with making sure someone can receive the goods, whether they strictly apply it for large organisations I'm not sure, but it doesn't do any harm to omit the PO box number when writing the Abbey IMHO.

 

Re the damages its up to you, but IMHO a small cost of say a fiver could be justified along the lines of postage, stationery, and travel to from the post box.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[give_me_it_back]

Yes, the Courts tend to take a dim view of people who claim way over the odds for expenses. Keep it to what the actual monetary cost was.