Muffintop v mbna

[bozalt]

Hi Muffintop

 

I am not sure if you remember but I had a similar CCA from MBNA, I sent a letter to 1st Credit who are dealing with the account following you and Angels advice and have now received a rather strange letter which is my thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/175080-virgin-card-mbna-cca.html

 

I dont mean to hijack your thread but wondered if you could offer your thoughts.

 

Best regards

 

B

[the_shadow]

Hi Muffintop

 

I am not sure if you remember but I had a similar CCA from MBNA, I sent a letter to 1st Credit who are dealing with the account following you and Angels advice and have now received a rather strange letter which is my thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/175080-virgin-card-mbna-cca.html

 

I dont mean to hijack your thread but wondered if you could offer your thoughts.

 

Best regards

 

B

 

Bozalt... follow this link and read posts 205 & 208 click me> and then re-look at your agreement, particularly the credit limit and the t&c apr table ...

 

PmW

[Muffintop]

Hya just checking in with latest from MBNA

They have been charging me 12.00 every month I have not paid them due totheir in my view non compliance with a valid cca request.

This has meant that I am now over my agreed limit with them and they have the godamm cheek to charge me a further 12.00 for being over when they put it over.

 

secondly they have written telling me that its the final chance to pay off the money owed or they will insist on me divulging my financial situation to them regarding any equity in property etc.... they cant force me to do this surely????????????????

 

Interestly they have not placed anything on my credit file yet not even a late payment, does anyone know what name they use on credit file.. is it mbna

[guzzleguts]

Hi M

 

I take it you have read through what UD posted on your thread in regards to what PT posted on PF's fight against MBNA thread.

 

Because both your T&C's are the ones he was talking about, so as long as your credit limit wasnt 1000 3000 5000 then i think thats a big ace up your sleeve.

 

GG

[Terrier7]

Hi MT,

Firstly, if they are in default of a CCA request and as such until they comply, effectively there is no debt. Simply refuse any request to divulge any personal information whatsoever as I did for many years. I haven't filled in a single income / expenses form for any of my creditors on the basis that it is a degrading intrusion into my affairs. They used to suggest that I would have to in Court, to which I would reply, yes, probably, but you aren't a judge and as I will continue to pay my £10 a month agreed initially, then if a Court looked at my case it would hardly raise this amount in my current financial circumstances and you would therefore have acted unreasonably and stand the costs of any action. Also, I would deny any debt in Court and force you to supply all the credit card slips to prove it, then at the very end, if you possibly could, declare myself bankrupt, costing you many thousands in legal costs. They always agreed (most reluctantly!) to accept my £10 per month.

Be strong! What's the worst that can happen?

Don't accede to the dark forces of tyranny and oppression!

T

[Terrier7]

Oh, I forgot, perhaps warn them officially that they are in default of a CCA request according to the 1974 act. They must agree within 48 hours not to place a default or threaten one, otherwise you will injunct them to prevent this with ALL costs to be paid by them. If they do so, then they must accept a claim for all damages by illegally lodging notices against your personal standing etc. This could be considerable as future credit could be more expensive. Also, you could have such a default quickly removed by Court Order, (I think it's a Part 8 claim) especially after you have placed them on notice, with all costs to be paid by them.

T

[Muffintop]

Hi M

 

I take it you have read through what UD posted on your thread in regards to what PT posted on PF's fight against MBNA thread.

 

Because both your T&C's are the ones he was talking about, so as long as your credit limit wasnt 1000 3000 5000 then i think thats a big ace up your sleeve.

 

GG

Guz... ahhh thats really messed up my head got you till you said pfs fight against mbna thread, anychance you can point me a bit more with post numbers of thread for me to follow from there. maybe start with ud post as finding it hard to work out what your sayin to me. pm if easier.

[Muffintop]

Terrier7

The 'offence' of failing to comply with a S77/78 request after 12+2+30 days was repealed last year I believe (para 3 of your letter).

You are completely right this was my understanding. criminal is no longer in that part of the failure to comply

[Muffintop]

Very interesting info from PT on another thread - hope he won't mind me pasting it here, just in case anyone missed it:-)

 

let me expand slightly

 

The law as we all know requires a "A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement"

 

So on the MBNA agreement it says £1000, £3000 & £5000 yes?

 

DOG. whats the thread and post number pse I need to track back on this. I thought however my MBNA microfiche thingy did say 500.00 credit limit.

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/skeggs885/mbna/mbnasign2.jpg

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/skeggs885/mbna/mbnasign1.jpg

 

can you take another look pse got me a bit confused.

[underdog13]

Hi Muffintop,

 

the thread is PompeyFaith's All MBNA Caggers Fight Against MBNA's underhand tactics. I can't remember what the post number was, but I copied it in it's entirety to your thread:)

 

Basically if your original credit limit differed from those stated then they didn't tell you your rate of interest; which renders it unenforceable:D

[guzzleguts]

HI M

 

post 208

 

All MBNA Caggers Fight Against MBNA's underhand tactics (1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

 

GG

[the_shadow]

Very interesting info from PT on another thread - hope he won't mind me pasting it here, just in case anyone missed it:-)

 

let me expand slightly

 

The law as we all know requires a "A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement"

 

So on the MBNA agreement it says £1000, £3000 & £5000 yes?

 

DOG. whats the thread and post number pse I need to track back on this. I thought however my MBNA microfiche thingy did say 500.00 credit limit.

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/skeggs885/mbna/mbnasign2.jpg

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/skeggs885/mbna/mbnasign1.jpg

 

can you take another look pse got me a bit confused.

 

Hi muffintop... look on the t&c part of your "agreement" its got an APR table on the top right hand side... if £500 isnt shown AND there is no comment in the t&c like "If your credit limit is not shown use the next lowest amount's apr for calculations" then PT suggests this is unenforceable.

 

The scan you have is a)small and b) on its side.. I did try and tilt my head to read it but it hurt so gave up:lol:

 

PmW

[Muffintop]

Hya sorry to bang on but i really need to sort this out thanks for trying to tilt your head....

 

Iv looked at the table you describe its very hard to read as so small and distorted but looks like

Credit Limit 1,000 3,000 5,000

APR monthly APR monthly APR monthly

Card Purchases 15.9% 1.240% 15.9% 1.240% 15.9% 1.240%

Balance Transfers 18.3% 1.240% 17.3% 1.240% 16.8% 1.240%

Cheque transactions 18.3% 1.240% 17.3% 1.240% 16.8% 1.240%

Cash transactions 18.3% 1.240% 18.3% 1.240% 18.3% 1.240%

The only place on my signature form is under the bar code it shows

CREDIT REFERENCE XXXXXXX

CREDIT LIMIT £500

under that is a box with

I strongly recommend PAYMENT PROTECTION COVER.

and then goes into before signing this agreement you must read section 11 in the terms and conditions provided. You agree that we may proces use, record anddisclose your personal information as described in section 11. We will use our automated credit scoring system when assessing your application if your applications is not accepted....

This says to me that this is my application form and not my agreement.

Just above my signature it does say that I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the MBNA credit card terms andconditons

 

so my question is.

My table reads as above do i fall within this technical glitch? or because it says 500.00 credit limit on a separate piece of paper which may be the front and back of a microfiche copy am I STUFFED?

[underdog13]

Hya sorry to bang on but i really need to sort this out thanks for trying to tilt your head....

 

Iv looked at the table you describe its very hard to read as so small and distorted but looks like

Credit Limit 1,000 3,000 5,000 It is these headings which count - no £500 is there?

APR monthly APR monthly APR monthly

Card Purchases 15.9% 1.240% 15.9% 1.240% 15.9% 1.240%

Balance Transfers 18.3% 1.240% 17.3% 1.240% 16.8% 1.240%

Cheque transactions 18.3% 1.240% 17.3% 1.240% 16.8% 1.240%

Cash transactions 18.3% 1.240% 18.3% 1.240% 18.3% 1.240%

 

The only place on my signature form is under the bar code it shows

CREDIT REFERENCE XXXXXXX

CREDIT LIMIT £500

 

under that is a box with

I strongly recommend PAYMENT PROTECTION COVER.

 

and then goes into before signing this agreement you must read section 11 in the terms and conditions provided. You agree that we may proces use, record anddisclose your personal information as described in section 11. We will use our automated credit scoring system when assessing your application if your applications is not accepted....

 

This says to me that this is my application form and not my agreement.

Just above my signature it does say that I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the MBNA credit card terms andconditons

 

so my question is.

My table reads as above do i fall within this technical glitch? or because it says 500.00 credit limit on a separate piece of paper which may be the front and back of a microfiche copy am I STUFFED?

 

No you're not stuffed:-)

[the_shadow]

Hya sorry to bang on but i really need to sort this out thanks for trying to tilt your head....

 

Iv looked at the table you describe its very hard to read as so small and distorted but looks like

Credit Limit 1,000 3,000 5,000

APR monthly APR monthly APR monthly

Card Purchases 15.9% 1.240% 15.9% 1.240% 15.9% 1.240%

Balance Transfers 18.3% 1.240% 17.3% 1.240% 16.8% 1.240%

Cheque transactions 18.3% 1.240% 17.3% 1.240% 16.8% 1.240%

Cash transactions 18.3% 1.240% 18.3% 1.240% 18.3% 1.240%

 

The only place on my signature form is under the bar code it shows

CREDIT REFERENCE XXXXXXX

CREDIT LIMIT £500

 

under that is a box with

I strongly recommend PAYMENT PROTECTION COVER.

 

and then goes into before signing this agreement you must read section 11 in the terms and conditions provided. You agree that we may proces use, record anddisclose your personal information as described in section 11. We will use our automated credit scoring system when assessing your application if your applications is not accepted....

 

This says to me that this is my application form and not my agreement.

Just above my signature it does say that I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the MBNA credit card terms andconditons

 

so my question is.

My table reads as above do i fall within this technical glitch? or because it says 500.00 credit limit on a separate piece of paper which may be the front and back of a microfiche copy am I STUFFED?

 

If they have responded to you that the document they claim is the agreement has been sent to you as a reply to your S78 request then thats the document they will need to produce in court as far as I'm aware. If they claim that the two documents are either side of what was the original document but has now been microfiched and destroyed then take them at their word if it helps your case:-)

 

Like I said if under the APR table the next paragraph states something like "If your apr is not shown use the next lowest apr amounts in calculations" then they are covered... if its not there then theyre not according to PT.

 

If after you have confirmed the apr table mistake you get them to confirm in writing that this is the only agreement that they can provide you and is the exact copy of your original executed document with both sides once being a single document then PT's discussion of APR rates applies as an argument against enforcement through a misquoted prescribed term I believe. [Warning - They may get suspicious if your too keen to get them to state this in writing so would need careful wording of letter I presume]

 

All just my humble opinion on this lovely summerslike day

PmW

[Muffintop]

tnx guys, the problem is, they wont enter into any other discussions on this now, they say they have fulfilled their duties in producing what they believe to be a true copy as they are obliged to, as we know it doesnt have to be an exact copy and the only way we will ever know if there is or isnt a true copy is they either send us a first generation photocopy or they produce it in court.

This makes it difficult for me to go back again and ask if the doc they have sent is a microfiche or if it is all from the same doc as they just wont comment.

My agreement as above and as typed out does not state the words (that I can see, as its very small, that I can see) but as I said there is a large piece of writing that does state my credit limit is 500.00 but that is not in the table of apr rates... It also looks like this is an application form as opposed to the actual agreement.

[toxicdebt]

Hi Muffintop

 

Im in the same boat. Had reply saying they have complied and thats the end of it blah blah blah. BUT...

 

Check your letter telling you this. Mine says they will acknowledge any correspondence from me but will not reply. Therefore you can still send letters to them.

 

Im in the process of drafting a letter to them telling them that their 'true' copy they have sent is unenforceable because of the above interest rate reason. Im basing it on my successful (to date) letter to egg. Im waiting for some of the more experienced Cag'ers to give a paragraph that states the act the once over before completing the rest. Ive posted the all important paragraph on my thread. Have a look. Meanwhile i'll pm you my final draft once its complete.

 

Although my egg agreement's unenforceability is for different reasons, the letter I sent should be adaptable and it got a positive response with them stating they are investigating and will reply in 8 weeks time - if they find a resolution to my complaint.

[Muffintop]

OMG.........

Just had a nasty letter from mbna staying that

potential commencement of legal proceedings.

Basically if I dont pay within 7 days then I will get a county court judgement

or

my employer will have an attachment to earnings. ... that will go down as good as a bucket of cold sick and prob loose my job!

a bailiff

or best still a charge being put on our house

ARE THESE ALL EMPTY THREATS UNLESS THEY CAN PRODUCE A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL IN COURT?

[underdog13]

I think the key word is potential. These letters are designed to frighten you into paying up.

 

They can't do any of the things they threaten without applying to court first; which is where you defend the claim.

 

Did you receive a DN and was it valid?

[Muffintop]

Thanks UNDERDOG.

Was just going to post to say got a default notice yesteday dated march 16th.

 

IMPORTANT DEFAULT NOTIFICATION

You are in breach of the agreed terms and conditions and a decision has been made to place a restriction on your account. This means that you card(s) and credit card cheques cannot be used. If you have regular transactions such as Internet payments, you should use an alternative method of payment.

 

As your account is xxxx in arrears, failure to bring your account up to date will also result in the evendual termination of the agreement and the registration of a default at the cra. A default will register on your credit file for the next six years and any potential employer, car dealership or creditor who utilise the services of a credit bureau will be able to see the details of this information.

 

ITS NOT TOO LATE TO PREVENT THE TERMINATION OF YOUR AGREEMENT.

 

CALL now to make a debit card payment.

 

is this a default notice???????? nothin on my file from mbna yet, kept the envelope but there is not date or postage date on it, only some sort of bar code thing this doesnt say when it was sent and it wasnt sent recorded del to me either so how can i prove if this is valid or not?

[underdog13]

Is that all it says, Muffintop? If so, it doesn't sound like a DN. Is there a date to remedy by?

 

Keep the envelope anyway, (might be an idea to write the date received on it yourself - but not over the bar code). BRW is trying to find out if there is a date code contained in thoses orangey pink barcodes.

[the_shadow]

Thanks UNDERDOG.

Was just going to post to say got a default notice yesteday dated march 16th.

 

IMPORTANT DEFAULT NOTIFICATION

You are in breach of the agreed terms and conditions and a decision has been made to place a restriction on your account. This means that you card(s) and credit card cheques cannot be used. If you have regular transactions such as Internet payments, you should use an alternative method of payment.

 

As your account is xxxx in arrears, failure to bring your account up to date will also result in the evendual termination of the agreement and the registration of a default at the cra. A default will register on your credit file for the next six years and any potential employer, car dealership or creditor who utilise the services of a credit bureau will be able to see the details of this information.

 

ITS NOT TOO LATE TO PREVENT THE TERMINATION OF YOUR AGREEMENT.

 

CALL now to make a debit card payment.

 

is this a default notice???????? nothin on my file from mbna yet, kept the envelope but there is not date or postage date on it, only some sort of bar code thing this doesnt say when it was sent and it wasnt sent recorded del to me either so how can i prove if this is valid or not?

 

Default notices are set out in prescribed manners, if thats all the text that was in the letter its not a proper default notice, also if it doesnt state anywhere in the letter you have "x number of days to remedy this or the account will be terminated" then its some kind of withdrawl of service letter or even possibly a pre-default notice letter.

 

If you can scan it and put it up then you'll get a definitive answer but it doesnt sound like one.

 

PmW

[Muffintop]

will do, but just to let you know, my son has a bar code reader he uses for his work,,, this pink orange thing on the envelope is NOT a barcode. It must either be something that the post office have put on or its generic to mbna,, might be worth talking to royal mail?

[the_shadow]

will do, but just to let you know, my son has a bar code reader he uses for his work,,, this pink orange thing on the envelope is NOT a barcode. It must either be something that the post office have put on or its generic to mbna,, might be worth talking to royal mail?

 

Dont think its royal mail.. isnt it ukmail post? so it'll be some kind of special scanning they do.

 

Did you delete your name off that posting on the barclaycard thread?

[Muffintop]

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/skeggs885/mbnadefault.jpg

 

IS THIS A DEFAULT NOTICE?