Is this an offence?

[thekat1979]

My letting agent have just written to me stating that I am committing an offence because I haven't used the Housing Benefit I have received to pay rent. They said if I want to avoid any 'further action' then I should pay all money owing immediately. They said they have contacted the housing benefit office and they have told them we are in receipt of benefit.

 

For a bit of background:

 

- We've already been served with a section 21 notice to quite 'just because'. Landlady was trying to evict us on the day we moved in!

- We are only 3.5 weeks late for the rent

- We used the HB (which is only worth half the rent) mainly to heat the house. Both myself and my partner are disabled, my partner has condition which is being aggravated by the fact that there is no cover over the loft hatch. We HAVE to keep the heating on 24/7 and it is VERY expsnive. With the heating on, we are warm enouigh that just wearing thich layers is relaitvely OK and bearable. Our hands and faces are still icy cold. All the heat is just rushing out the hole in the ceiling and no matter how many times we ask them to fix it, and they have known about it since before we moved in - they just wont fix it. This is just one of the issues, which also includes taking 2 months to fix the boiler and some of the electirc sockets not working at all in the property. All of which are reported and have been as soon as we moved in.

- We are only in recept of income support

- The bank is taking most of our money for charges

- The house was let out when there was an order of possession on the property for four months of rent arrears. The landlady isn't paying the mortgage on the property at all and the mortgage arrears are accruing every month. Probably not relevant but thought I'd throw it in there!

 

Not trying to make excuses, just want to make sure you all have the info you need and to give a bit of background!

 

We haven't deliberately tried to get housing benefit out of the council with no intention of paying the rent. We just had to make a decision between heating the house and paying rent. We were planning on paying some towards the rent tomorrow but I'm scared to go into the letting agents now. They can be a tad heavy handed to say the least!

[Conniff]

Open a bank account with another bank and change all deposits into that.

[Zamzara]

It is in no way offence, as you can use HB to pay for whatever you like as long as your are entitled to receive it.

 

However, you are of course at risk of evicition and homelessness as well as still being legally liable to pay the rent, which is arguably worse than criminal action.

[thekat1979]

They have already given a section 21 notice which expires in about six weeks. That was just because the landlady didn't want to rent in the first place! Plus, there was a posession order on the property when she let it out to us! She isn't paying any of her mortgage at all either so they are about to repossess her house. All this means we will be homeless anyway in about six weeks. We're already in talks with homelessness section of council who have confirmed that we would a priority need, so they would provide us with accomodation so we wouldn't be on the streets, which is a big relief!

[Zamzara]

Sorry I missed that part about the section 21. That's good to hear you will be rehoused.

[thekat1979]

Well, the latest in this saga is that someone just knocked on the door at eleven at night and told us 'don't you think its about time you paid your rent, you're going to burn when you sleep'. Had the police round, but cos me and partner are blind there isn't much we could tell them other than what they said! Got CCTV pointing directly at the house for tonight - so the front should be fairly secure.

 

Happy Christmas, eh?!

[thekat1979]

Hi, I put this in another thread I have going, but think it will get lost as the subject heading of that post doesn't do this justice!

 

We are a bit behind on our rent, as of Monday it was 3.5 weeks, but we paid by cheque 2 weeks worth (all the housing benefit we get) so are in effect 1.5 weeks late. We rent through a letting agent who apparently 'manage' the property.

 

We were served with a section 21 notice on our AST at the beginning of December. Didn't have too much of a problem with this, she is a TERRIBLE landlady (doesn't do any of the essential repairs at all). The notice is due to expire at the beginning of February.

 

The day after the notice was served we mysteriously got a pizza delivered to our house. The only people that know my full address and mobile number are my mum, step-mum and landlady. Given that both me and my partner are blind, my mum and step mum aren't that stupid. After I sent the pizza blokey away, got a call on my mobile saying that I HAD ordered the pizza. I really hadn't. When I phoned the pizza place, the man I spoke to said that it was a female that left the order, but that it wasn't me as he remembered her voice - but she hadn't left a name.

 

Phone police for a crime number, just so that if anything else happens we had a record that it wasn't the first thing that had happened.

 

That new thing happened at 11pm Christmas Eve. Got a knock on the door, went to the glass panel and there was someone there. I asked who it was, and they said 'don't you think its about time you paid your rent?'. I asked again who it was, and he leaned into the glass and said again 'don't you think its time you paid your rent?'. I said that I had paid in a cheque on Monday and that if he didn't go away now I would ring the police. He said 'don't you think its time you paid your rent - you're going to burn where you sleep'. Freaked me out!

 

Phoned the police, but as I hadn't been able to see who it was (through glass and registered blind), they said they wouldn't be able to do much, but pointed CCTV at my house for the whole night and patrolled more regularly in the area last night.

 

Seeing as it is Christmas, the letting agent is closed. I don't know if they open now on Monday or on a week Monday. I'll try on Monday, but if they aren't there, then I have another week to wait. Even then, it is still 5 days from when the threat was made. We don't have anywhere else to go, so have to stay here. We've got a bucket of water by the front door, and wet towels on the floor. We've checked the smoke alarms work and have put the blinds down in the kitchen. But we're really worried about staying here for the foreseeable. We'll ring the police at the first sign of anything obviously, but doesn't take away the stress now. We were supposed to be going to the council on 5th Jan (first day they open after new year) to talk to homelessness section. Over the phone they have said we are priority need after the section 21 notice, but still have to wait until there are 4 weeks left before our notice finishes before they can do anything really. Why did it have to happen when everyone is off?!

 

Is there anything I can do in the short term that anyone knows of? How about the mid-term. Would the council be able to make sure we are out by the time the notice expires? If they are like this now, what are they going to be like if they have to get an eviction order? We were told by the council that this is likely to be needed before they can rehome us!

 

Just one final point, but there was an order for possession on the property when she let it out, she hasn't paid a PENNY towards her mortgage since before we moved in, and we are still getting her post from the mortgage place and other creditors - and house calls too! Grrr!! The mortgage company don't seem to even know that she has tenants!

 

Can anyone help? Really sorry for the length of the post!

[Ragtaggeorge]

You are an adult presumably and any comments by me are purely conversational. I have had the threats from landlords by proxy when a renter in the past. Mostly just bluster. Try telling your immediate neighbours all about it. Ask the police if they can include you in their regular patrols and give you a knock when passing just to keep them visible. Have an escape route rehearsed just in case. Get back to the council and point out that you might need to flee the premises if directly physically attacked. You are entitled to defend yourself if anyone breaks in as happened to me. If you happen to be chopping vegetables at the time no problem. They do not know how much sight you have... It might scare them off it worked for me. I hope it will come to nothing, keep talking if you find yourself confronted and can not make an exit. If you live locally I can offer some moral support.

[noomill060]

I think you should see a solicitor as soon as possible.

 

Thinking of you both.

[ScarletPimpernel]

You should also inform the letting agency, though they will probably slope their shoulders.

 

And take Noomill's advice, and go and see a solicitor. You may also want to speak to a local councillor - they can deal with various agencies on your behalf.

[thekat1979]

Thank you everyone x - feeling a lot let scared at the moment, but thought I heard the man who gave the threat in a shop this afternoon. Really scared me! I'll feel a lot more safe when I've managed to get out of here.

 

I'll be taking the crime numbers I have to the letting agent as soon as they open, and I'm going to the council too as soon as they are back from new year break - see about the possibility of definitely being rehomed by the time the notice is up. I think my main worry is that she is like this now, what will she be like when the notice expires. The council have been quite clear that there is a good chance we will have to wait for an actual eviction order before they will rehome us! Eep!?

[help me kick his butt]

Hi, My feeling is that you need to speak to the Police about this again and actually tell them how scared you both are, death threats should be taken very seriously. I am worried for you both.

Could you go and stay with friends or parents etc for a while? least you wont have to fear for youe life if you are not in the property!

[noomill060]

See A Solicitor Before Doing Anything Else.

[Planner]

What a terrible situation! I imagine its just all bluff, but still not nice to hear over the Christmas period (or anytime thinking about it!).

 

First things first, are you satified that the s.21 notice you have been served is accurate? and, if you paid a deposit, should it have been protected under one of the government schemes and has it been?. If it is a deposit that should have been protected and it hasnt, then your landlord/agent cannot use a s.21 to remove you from the property until it is protected.

 

Not sure if you also know that even when the s.21 notice expires in early Feb, you still dont have to leave the property, your landlord will have to get an order from the court in order to do this which I believe will take at least another month (taking you till March at the earliest). I suspect that the Council will advise you to remain in the property on the expiry of the s.21 in order to be bumped up the housing priority list.

 

Post back with the Councils response after your meeting with them on the 5th, and we will see if we can help any further.

[thekat1979]

I've shown the s21 to the council and they are happy that it is OK and the deposit is protected. :0(

 

I've been told we'd be taken as priority need which is good. Just really hope they can find us somewhere fairly quickly as we don't want to be here after the s21 is done. I have a feeling they are gong to turn nasty at that point.

 

I'll write back as soon as I get back from the Council. Fingers crossed it'll be sorted fairly quick!

[thekat1979]

Wrote a letter to the letting agent yesterday with the heaxding "ADDRESS - potential harassment from landlord/letting agent.

 

I detailed in it the 2 police complaints I now had, making sure that I stated that I had no direct proof of who had done anything, that reasonable assumption would lead me to believe it was either the letting agent OR landlady, but that I could prove nothing, that I was just making them awre that the police had been informed and I was collecting a portfolio of all incidents so that if anything further happened there was a traceable list of previous incidents. We asked them to make the landlady aware that the police were involved too and that we were in fear for our lives and that we were going to be seeking legal advice early in the new year.

 

I got a hand delivered letter this morning simply stating "Can you please confirm, in writing, that you are accusing us of harassment as this will be taken extremely seriously and we will take further action against you".

 

I sent them a letter this afternoon stating that in no way had I accused them of anything as I had no proof of who had done anything. I simply said there was 'potential' harassment and listed the possible people it COULD have been. I did ask them to address the issues that had been raised as we are very scared.

 

This is scarily similar to when we sent them a rent cheque last week, whilst also asking for info with regards to the TDS and outlined a LOT of provblems that needed to be sorted within the house and all we got back from them was "thank you for payment, but you still owe us £XXX.XX and incuded the info on our TDS scheme.

 

They seem to pick and chose what they respond to.

[thekat1979]

Just found out as well that homeless section will be open tomorrow so am going to see them tomorrow.

[Planner]

I got a hand delivered letter this morning simply stating "Can you please confirm, in writing, that you are accusing us of harassment as this will be taken extremely seriously and we will take further action against you".

 

quote]

 

I would suggest this is itself is harassment... an obvious threat in writing that they will take further action AGAINST YOU!, should you continue to cause waves. Disgraceful action on their part. Are the agents a member of a professional organisation?

[thekat1979]

They have ARLA and NAEA logos on their website, so I guess so.

 

Never thought of that as harassment in itself. I never accused them simply stated that there was 'potential' harassment and that the only people it could have been, if I was being harassed, are the letting agent or landlady. Said directly that I was unable to provide concrete proof of any wrongdoing, but just wanted to make them aware of the situation. If I'd simply said 'the landlady is doing this' or 'the letting agent did that' then that would have been different. Thats why I used the very unspecific words and stated that the only reasonable assumption was either that it was the letting agent or the landlady and to let them know that we are keeping a log of things via the police and they have increased patrols in the area to keep an eye on us.

 

As for the hand delivered element, the office is only a five minute walk from us and they often hand deliver 'to save on stamps'. What I don't get though is that I was sat at my computer when they delivered it and we have the front door in the living room, and they didn't knock to deliver it at all, just simply popped it through. Ran away when my Guide Dog barked though!

[Zamzara]

Further action? Maybe ask them to clarify what action they have already taken, and what further action they think is available to them?

[thekat1979]

I don't know what they are talking about in terms of action lol - but I would imagine they mean solicitors. IF I had accused them of harassmet - which I didn't - what could the possible implications be? Am I looking at a civil or criminal offence? Could it be slander/libel (whichever one goes with written communication), and does the fact that it was in a letter addressed to one person in the company make any difference?

[noomill060]

Fear not.

 

You have merely made them aware of the situation and they are now rather worried. This is good, as they are now on the back foot.

 

They didnt want to give you the letter face to face - I wonder why...?

 

Do not delay getting legal advice. Show the solicitor the letter you have recieved from them. Keep it safe.

[Happyfeet24]

Hi, Hope all is progressing well and you're closer to being able to move.

 

I just wanted to say to try not to worry about the threat of fire if the mystery caller was conected to your landlady. I think as has been said by other posters it sounds like empty tactics. She would be very foolish to destroy her own property. Even more so now that the threat has been reported to the police.

 

Even so, it's a horrible situation and I hope you're able to move soon.

 

All the best

HappyFeet

[thekat1979]

We've heard nothing more from the landlady - and the letting agent have written saying they do not condone this behaviour.

 

On a separate note, because we are 4 weeks behind in our rent - my cheque bounced because of bank charges - they have told Housing Benefit, sorry, Local Housing Allowance people, that they are demanding the LHA be paid to them. They didnt like it when I said that the period is 8 weeks arrears before they will do anything, by which time I would HOPEFULLY have sorted something. Cheque only bounced because of bank charges!

 

Been to the homeless section, and due to a rather complicated situation, neither place I need to put in my homeless application to will help at the moment. I'll put that in another thread as I could do with some specific help with that that I think may get lost in this thread!

 

But no closer to ACTUALLY moving unfortunately. Got some conversations going on tomorrow so may no more then.

[thekat1979]

Been given a s21 notice, its all valid etc. I'm comfortable with that element of it.

 

However, I've only lived in my current local authority - Caerphilly - for five months. When I spoke to their homeless section, they said because I hadn't lived in the area for 9 of the last 12 months and don't work, they would not consider us to have a local connection so would not rehome us. This in essence was OK, as we were hoping Cardiff would. I'm originally from there, alll my family is there, and other than going away to study, that is where I lived all my life. So off I went to Cardiff homeless...

 

THEY say Caerphilly have lied, that it is 6 in 12 months not 9 and that by the time my notice expires, it would have been 6 months that I lived there and so was covered by this element as having a local connection. I explained my situation, and they have said that they would be more than happy to rehome us in Cardiff due to local connections, a priority need due to disability, and the fact that I come from there. They have said that they cannot accept my homeless application directly from me though. They said they need me to do my application at Caerphilly, who then need to process my application and refer me to Cardiff. They stated very clearly though that they would happily rehome us once this had been done. They have been very helpful. So off I went back to Caerphilly...

 

THEY say that they don't WANT to take my homeless appication because I CAN make an application directly to Cardiff and 'why should we take it in thos circumstances' (actual quote) because Cardiff 'may not take our referral then we'restuck with you'. NICE!

 

I'm going to ring Shelter Cymru tomorrow to see who is right, but does anyone have any ideas?

 

My main question is are Caerphilly right that I can make my application anywhere, or are Cardiff right that they can accept it buiy only via a referral from the local authority I'm in?

 

I'm being batted around between the two, and Caerphilly are point blank refusing o accept an application from us. Cardiff have even said that if Caerphilly will just give us a letter stating that they will not process the homeless application and give reasons why then they will take us then, but until Caerphilly officially say they wont take us, which is illegal I understand - then Cardiff 's hands are tied.

 

In the meantime, I'm stuck with nobody takin g my homeless application.