Credit Cards v Muffintop cca's

[Muffintop]

Guys, is there a 3rd letter that can be sent when you have sent the 2nd letter stating I acknowledge no debt to you as they havent sent the cca in the period of time they should have.

 

Im getting statements through now with charges on and I want to reiterate that they havent sent me cca and I have advised them that until they do I owe them nothing?

[cashins]

Guys, is there a 3rd letter that can be sent when you have sent the 2nd letter stating I acknowledge no debt to you as they havent sent the cca in the period of time they should have.

 

Im getting statements through now with charges on and I want to reiterate that they havent sent me cca and I have advised them that until they do I owe them nothing?

 

Don't see you need to, they are fully aware of that!.

 

Any charges they pile on you can claim back anyway.

 

David

[Muffintop]

Ok, thanks just very alien not to pay the cards and see the statements coming in with default charges showing on them. need to relax a bit I guess.

[Muffintop]

I have a devils advokate question,, I have no intention of doing this myself and my criminal law background tells me it would be a deception but someone has asked me and I do not know the answer so I am putting it out to you experienced peeps.

 

If you had requested your cca and sent a I dont recognise this debt letter following non compliance, then you went and used the card for a purchase where would you stand with the debt that you had racked up since your letter stating you dont recognise any debt.

 

I would have thought it would contaminate your case and your intention would have been to deceive but Im not sure... skeggsy

Edited December 15, 2008 by skeggs885
my spelling is rubbish

[noomill060]

A lender would be foolish to allow you access to more credit after receiving such a letter.

 

If they then allowed you to access credit it could be argued that they were in fact giving away money to which they were aware they had no hope of ever getting back.

[Muffintop]

thankyou Noomill, are you saying then that if a lender were foolish enough to not bar your card from further usage (which is a big possibility) then the person using the card could say they thought it was 'free' money?

 

I have to reiterate I would not do this my job would be over for good but Im just enquiring as playing devils advokate....

[Muffintop]

Can I also ask guys whether it was a bad move sending for request ccas from all my credit cards at the same time and should I have ticked em off one by one, I can feel a whole lot of stress coming at once with the phone calls and also having to look daily for advise on how to handle each individual creditor. As this thread was started as a general thread do you guys think I should now split it up into different forums ie the halifax card, the mbna card, the m and s card?? I have started to get the chasing texts and phone calls now from barclays and mbna.:-?

[cashins]

As this thread was started as a general thread do you guys think I should now split it up into different forums ie the halifax card, the mbna card, the m and s card?? I have started to get the chasing texts and phone calls now from barclays and mbna.

 

Probably a good idea to split your thread as it can get very confusing if you have several things on the go at once.

 

Suggest you keep them in this forum as they get most exposure here.

 

David

[Muffintop]

thanx cashins stay with me for the moment when I start getting queries from halifax or barclaycard i will begin an extra thread somewhere else dont want to loose the guys who are watchin me at the moment. regards skeggsy

[Muffintop]

Hya guys hope you havent left me,

Iv split my thread for bc and halifax but couldnt find a thread for m n s. stilll keeping this open for general queries.

I think I made a bit of a mistake hitting all my cards for cca at the same time as its quite stressful trying to juggle all of them at the same time.

 

I have now got bc, halifax, mns and mbna on the go.

I am surprised but today I received a recorded del letter from m n s money

It states on the letter, I refer to your recent request for a copy of your application form and settlement account.

(this isnt what I asked for i asked for copy of original cca)

what im confused and a bit disheartened with is

the copy looks like it might be the copy of my signed agreement,

It states at the top right 'please sign this and return to us)

it states its the credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974.

 

It gives key financial information

 

Other financial information

missing payments

important to read this carefully to find out about your rights

about my right to cancel

then a box that says

THIS IS A CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974. SIGN ONLY IF YOU WANT TO BE LEGALLY BOUND BY ITS TERMS.

My signature is there in the box dated march 07 (im sure I took this account out prior to that)

 

there isa box where I have crossed out that I do not wish to purchase payment protection cover.

 

....I cant work out is this is actually the copy of our agreement, or if it is my applicaton form.... how can I find out????????????????:???:

[cashins]

By 2007 they really should have been getting the agreements right.

 

The law changed substantially that year but I think it was later than March.

 

What it says on the top is not really the issue, what is, is if the document is enforceable.

 

It should have the following tems:B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

 

Have a look and see what you think.

 

As all my CCA's are substantialy older that this, you need a second opinion.

 

It would also hep if you could scan the document and post it up, (with personal details removed)

 

David

[Muffintop]

Thankyou very much for taking time to look at my latest post

Apparently I took this account out in March 2007. I know that the law surrounding ccas changed in april 2007 so very close.

I have until 5th jan to make next payment to m n s

I kinda think they may have sent me my valid cca but I need to go n buy a scanner to post it up on here.

Something doesnt feel quite right with them though as I had a prev address and I think that I need to do a SAR (i cant find the letter for a sar to a credit card co, i know I have to pay ten pounds, could someone help me find it pse so I can send it off)

I.. think that I had a diferent account with them and they had spelt my name slightly wrong... lisa is lesa... I think they sent out a new agreement in march 2007 and I have signed it, so I think I may be toast

Whats your thoughts guys...

[noomill060]

Get the document scanned and post it up.

[cashins]

Something doesnt feel quite right with them though as I had a prev address and I think that I need to do a Subject Access Request (i cant find the letter for a sar to a credit card co, i know I have to pay ten pounds, could someone help me find it pse so I can send it off)

 

 

Do you mean you were not living at that address at the time you were supposed to have signed the agreement?

 

SAR letter is in 'bank templates library'

 

Don't get yourself in a tangle on this. If something doesn't feel right it very often isn't, however if you think you better pay them in Jan, do so, you can always challenge them later when you have more information.

 

David

[Muffintop]

I living at a different address when I took out the card then moved but the prev address was a family member so I left the card there, I changed the address in March 2007 and I think they sent me a new agreement to sign which would be why it shows I took out the card in 2007.

Iv now sent out a SAR request, but think this will be irrelevant as Iv signed a new agreement.

 

sending them this letter and going to make the payment as suggested which sits better with me and challenge it at a later stage. thanks guys I will also post the agreement they sent me as soon as I can go out and buy a scanner today or 2moz.

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: M & S CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT NUMBER

 

Further to your letter dated 18th December 2008 with a copy of my application form and statement of account. I requested a copy of my ORIGINAL SIGNED AGREEMENT, you have not complied with this request properly within the statutory time limit as my original request was sent on 14.11.08. You have therefore failed to comply with my request fully.

If the original signed AGREEMENT is not sent to me with 7 days of the date of this letter you will be breaching ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR) and I will be forced to take relevant action.

Please NOW supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[rory32]

This is a variation on the above which you may wish to consider sending.

 

Please supply me with all information you may have registered about my account with your company. In particular I request information which includes, but is not limited to, a true legible copy of the original application forms and a true legible copy of the actual executed agreements as well as statements of the accounts from the opening date of these accounts to the present date.

 

I also need to see the renewed, signed and fully executed copies of the credit card agreements to include all terms and conditions which should have been issued when a new credit card was issued as laid down in S85 of the Consumer Credit ACT 1974.

 

I require disclosure of any indication or notes which you hold and notes of all telephone calls made to me by your call centre staff both in the UK and any offshore operations either within Europe or elsewhere in the world. This data is to include all written, audio and electronic correspondence and data.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I don’t think I need to remind you that you have just 40 days to supply this information under the Data Protection Act.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

Print name do not sign

[Muffintop]

Rory,

whew that sounds so much better thanks so much for taking the time, will rip mine up and send this one instead...merry xmas by the way...

skeggsy

[rory32]

A merry xmas to you too

[AA99]

M&S Money have been wonderful with me. Spoke to a most charming man, they have frozen interest and charges and am on a £20 pm standing order payment to them.......Mr Officer is his name

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Skeggsy!

 

Thanks for the PM, always best to deal with these issues via the Forum, so that any advice I give you can be checked and corrected by others.

 

But on the subject of MBNA...

 

I regret there is no simple answer. MBNA are pretty useless, and have Scanned and Shredded most of their Agreements, so in 99% of cases they don't have an Original to produce in Court.

 

MBNA play a numbers game, although it's hard to understand why they are messing you around, you need to realise you and CAGGERs like you are a small percentage of their business.

 

MBNA can't be bothered to fight directly, so will use DCAs or DCA-Lawyers, or will Sell the Debt.

 

In many cases they've had their money back anyway, what is owed is often just the sum total of Interest and Charges. They will write that off against Tax, and move on. You are just a blip on their Spreadsheet, one that didn't work out for them.

 

But they will hassle you, and will happily mess you around for the full 6 Years until the alleged Debt is Statute Barred.

 

The only thing you can do is take them to Court to try and have the alleged Debt declared Unenforceable via s142, but that is likely to be both costly and risky, depending on the Judge Lottery and if MBNA happen to pull out an Original Agreement from some dark dusty corner of MBNA Towers.

 

The best strategy is just to stay on top of the Admin, watch them like a Hawk, and analyse everything they do looking for errors. Build up a Harassment Complaint if they are bothering you, etc etc.

 

Sorry this is not better news, but if you resign yourself to fighting them for the next 6 Years, at least you can keep them in check and jump on anything silly they do. After 6 Years, you can forget all about them.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Muffintop]

Banker Rhymes I am grateful for your honest reply at least I know where I stand now... 6 years of hell.... but maybe worth it.

[AA99]

Ah, skeggs, what a lucky person you are to have BRW on your side. God Bless CAGGERS,

[Muffintop]

Banker, Caggers, Cashins, Rory, Slick and guys watchin my thread with huge experience.

 

Something sure isnt right, I looked at my experian report today from March this year, (it confirms what I thought, the account with m n s was opened in 2005, but they have a signed agreement from me from 2007, when I changed addresses) soon as buy scanner in next couple of days will post it up as notice Cleo has similiar thread inthe m n s money threads)

I have sent the Subject Access Request request via rdel today this may show up inconsistencies,

Am I right though that this is the original card taken out and that the signature for 2007 isnt the original signature from opening the card? but another signature that I may have provided or a scan or my signature..

 

I did pay em this month, but if they have been dirty and I think they have, I wont be continuing any longer till they play ball.

 

Im also wondering if my thread has now got too big for general advice on cca v skeggsy but I have a lot of people watchin now and dont want to loose you, should it be moved over to m n s specific (have split my other cards into separate threads now)

skeggsy

Edited December 23, 2008 by skeggs885
skeggsy v mbna

[Muffintop]

Thanks, I have received something from MBNA which looks liked the bottom signed part of an agreement I signed in 2004,, It doesnt look very big though thought the agreement would be bigger, Iv asked a friend to scan it and will post on here soon as for someone wise to check over. I feel it is the part of the cca I signed but not the full agreement. Im still puzzled over whether I should pay them or not if they havent sent me the agreements, Im still outstanding the others expecially m and s... I dont think its worth pursuing cards that I have only held for around a year... if I dont pay them i will for sure get a bad credit rating, however that means I get as many months grace that it takes them to come up with the agreements, if at all, and then i will have to go to the experian and put a notice of correction on my file... this does strike me as a whole lot of stress though if they are going to come up with the agreements anyway?? pse advise skeggsy

 

 

passing Mod.. I messed up a bit here, started a generic thread which is great initially but its now split into the separate credit card ccas's ie mbna and m and s and barclays, I have separated bc and i need to split the mbna posts from this thread. is there a way of doing it?

[Muffintop]

created new thread for skeggsy v mbna for the mbna part of my story. xx dont leave me now.