Paypal v me

[whiterose11]

hello

sorry if this question had been asked before but here is my problem

 

well a short version

 

sold an item on ebay £270.00

sent item { recorded delivery } buyer's boss signed for it

received funds from paypal

3 months later paypal claimed a charge back = saying unaurthrized use of his credit card

 

Paypal said they would disprute this

I lost !! they went in favor of credit card company

I rang the buyer told him what had happened, he sent me a cheque which bounced, twice

 

I how have Dept collection company hassasing me for payment, i have sent all the evidence to them, unpaid cheque ect

I dispruted this with dept collection company, they said they would refer back to paypal, paypal have said it is still my dept

 

can they take me to court and will i have to pay this dept.

the buyer has my item and his money back and im left with the dept

is this right

 

 

any advice would be very welcome

thank you

[whiterose11]

hello

please please someone give me some advice

sorry if this question had been asked before but here is my problem

 

well a short version

 

sold an item on ebay £270.00

sent item { recorded delivery } buyer's boss signed for it

received funds from paypal

3 months later paypal claimed a charge back = saying unaurthrized use of his credit card

 

Paypal said they would disprute this

I lost !! they went in favor of credit card company

I rang the buyer told him what had happened, he sent me a cheque which bounced, twice

 

I how have Dept collection company hassasing me for payment, i have sent all the evidence to them, unpaid cheque ect

I dispruted this dept with dept collection company, they said they would refer back to paypal, paypal have said it is still my dept

 

can they take me to court and will i have to pay this dept.

the buyer has my item and his money back and im left with the dept

is this right

i dont no what to do or who to seek for help i am getting really woried about this now

 

any advice would be very welcome

thank you

[PGH7447]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/166426-paypal-me.html

 

duplicate post

[freakyleaky]

2 Threads merged. Please keep all information on the same subject to one thread.

Please be patient. Someone will be along to help soon.

[Evader]

hello

please please someone give me some advice

sorry if this question had been asked before but here is my problem

 

well a short version

 

sold an item on ebay £270.00

sent item { recorded delivery } buyer's boss signed for it

received funds from paypal

3 months later paypal claimed a charge back = saying unaurthrized use of his credit card

 

Paypal said they would disprute this

I lost !! they went in favor of credit card company

I rang the buyer told him what had happened, he sent me a cheque which bounced, twice

 

I how have Dept collection company hassasing me for payment, i have sent all the evidence to them, unpaid cheque ect

I dispruted this dept with dept collection company, they said they would refer back to paypal, paypal have said it is still my dept

 

can they take me to court and will i have to pay this dept.

the buyer has my item and his money back and im left with the dept

is this right

i dont no what to do or who to seek for help i am getting really woried about this now

 

any advice would be very welcome

thank you

 

You sent the item to the Buyer and then Paypal deucted the money from your account causing you to "owe" money to them because according to their rules you were in the wrong. No to be blunt, they are not likely to file a claim in the County Court against you.

 

First reason they wont do it is that to file a claim costs money. They have no gurantee that you are worth a penny. So they are going for the cheap option and have sold your debt (along with 1000s) to these debt collection agencies.

 

Write a letter to Paypal send it by recorded delivery to their complaints/registered offices. Explain that you are not liable for the amount alleged and that your letter should be treated as a complaint and should they persist in harrassing you, a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman will be made, see Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

You are in a better position than what I was in a few years ago. The Buyer received the item and then made a complaint. I had sent a refund and then Paypal also refunded him. So somewhere out there is a buyer sitting with a Laptop and 2 x the purchase price. Paypal were not very helpful when I wanted to find out the address of the buyer to sue him - strange that dont you think! I try not to use paypal.

[whiterose11]

Thank you for replying Evader, and sorry to hear what happened to you, did paypal chase you for the money owing to them and how did you end up.

I have read some other complaints about paypal on here and i sent a letter recorded delivery to the dept collection angency head office explaining the situration and a copy of a letter which is posted on here { consume credit act } and a £1.00 post order, Today i received a reply saying that,

 

The account was placed with us by Paypal and is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, the account is govermerd by the term detailed on Paypals website at the time that you used the Paypal service,

In relation to your dispute , i have referred this matter to our clint for their investigation and will contact you once a reply is received.

 

I have sent Paypal and dca loads of letter explaining the situation, when this al stared in sept 07

So do i still need to send Paypal another letter.

 

many thanks Alex

[toolongtooshort]

Whilst PayPal are chasing you for the debt, there is nothing stopping you filing a online small claim against your Buyer for the amount of £270 + court costs + reasonable costs amounting to you having to investigate law to make this claim. The fact it's over 12 months is no difference.

 

Do some covert investigation to confirm that the individual is still working there, or do you have their home address, use 192.com to see if on the voters role as the same address as PayPal.

 

I hope you still have the Recorded / Postage Slip and can still get a copy of the signed for signature that Royal Mail obtained? The postal slip will detail the cost of postage and therefore can work out the weight to confirm that you sent the item and not just an empty envelope.

 

Something for the future any item of value over the max compensation for Recorded should go via Special Delivery or Courier with the correct cover. For £270 it should have been Special Delivery as Recorded currently only covers upto £36 protection.

 

Also have you any communication from the Buyer that the item was received by them and were happy with it. Even the use of Feedback on eBay by the Buyer can be used as an admission of receipt. Which can then be used should the Buyer wish to defend the court action.

 

Don't let them get away with it, either the boss had nicked the Buyers card details (as they signed for it), or the Buyer knew exactly what they were doing.

 

If you still know the Buyers eBay ID, see if any future feedback has mentioned the same thing from other Sellers.

[whiterose11]

Hi toolongtooshort

I gave the short eversion to my problem, theer is more to it but would have taken to long to write down,

 

The genleman in question no longer works for the company and has split from his wife so no longer lives with her, as i fount out their address and spoke to her on the phone, this is were the problem stems from, he used her or their joint credit card not sure which and she claimed unauthorised use of the credit card hece i am in this mess now

Yes i had conformation that the buyer received the item from his boss and from posative feed back on ebay and the cheque thathe sent me that bounched

The item was special delivery { my mistake by saying recored } i have a photo copy of the trace and track proof of delivery

 

so what now ??

[Evader]

Well in my case I have yet to get the money back.

 

What you do is write to the buyer and explain what happened. Explain his options, either he pays you the money or send you the item back. State the deadline for a response. Mark it "Letter Before Action". Send the letter and wait. If you dont know his current address send it to his last known address.

 

If he fails to response you will need to file a claim against him in the county court. It is a simple process and I can help you with that.

[toolongtooshort]

Do as Evader has mentioned.

 

Send a LBA (Letter Before Action) to the last known address, giving 14 days to make payment or court proceedings will commence. Remember to state the date that he must comply by (ie. 14 days from receipt of letter).

 

Send the LBA by trackable means as this will be used as your evidence in court should you need to rely on it.

 

If no response then file a claim online, remembering to add a reasonable amount of costs to the claim for your time and hassle. I think you can also ask the courts to consider compensation for you instead, but someone else here will need to confirm that.

 

If you are still on talking terms with the wife, ask her if she knows where he has gone to, it it was a bitter split, she might willingly give his new address to you.

 

If you obtain judgement by default you can send in the bailiffs / DCA, however that's when the hardest bit is to recover funds by judgement.

 

Remember to send a copy to the DCA chasing you, it keeps them in the picture and may stop them for the interim chasing you if they know you are trying to recover the funds. The DCA want their slice of the money and if you get it from the Buyer and hand to the DCA, then the DCA goes away a happy bunny as they made a profit without doing much of the work. That why you build a compensation cost into your claim to pay for your time sorting it out.

[whiterose11]

Do as Evader has mentioned.

 

Send a LBA (Letter Before Action) to the last known address, giving 14 days to make payment or court proceedings will commence. Remember to state the date that he must comply by (ie. 14 days from receipt of letter).

 

Send the LBA by trackable means as this will be used as your evidence in court should you need to rely on it.

 

If no response then file a claim online, remembering to add a reasonable amount of costs to the claim for your time and hassle. I think you can also ask the courts to consider compensation for you instead, but someone else here will need to confirm that.

 

If you are still on talking terms with the wife, ask her if she knows where he has gone to, it it was a bitter split, she might willingly give his new address to you.

 

If you obtain judgement by default you can send in the bailiffs / DCA, however that's when the hardest bit is to recover funds by judgement.

 

Remember to send a copy to the DCA chasing you, it keeps them in the picture and may stop them for the interim chasing you if they know you are trying to recover the funds. The DCA want their slice of the money and if you get it from the Buyer and hand to the DCA, then the DCA goes away a happy bunny as they made a profit without doing much of the work. That why you build a compensation cost into your claim to pay for your time sorting it out.

 

 

Hi guys

and thank you for the advise

 

I have spoken to the buyer on serval occasions explaining the situration hence he sent me a cheque which bounced, his wife has changed her phone number since i last spoke to her { i smell a rat }or she is fed up with other people chasing him for money !!! i did send him a letter on the 20th nov 07 recored delivery still have the slip, saying basically what you both have said, i received the cheque on the 12 Dec 07, tryed to cash it twice bounced both times, tryed ringing him he got very verbal on the phone and didnt answer anymore,

 

so if i did get the judgement who pays the dca fee's ?

and how much is a reasonable amount to go for ?

surely this is between paypal and the credit card company though, i did go to the police and they told me that as the law lies i sold an item and received my money why should i been involded with a couples split.

 

once again many thanks

[Evader]

The DCA fees can only be charged to you if permitted under the Paypal user agreement that you "signed" up to. Probably liable. But worth arguing that you are not liable and Paypal have acted unreasonably. Refuse to pay any DCA fees.

 

It seems that you now need to go to your Local County Court and ask for the N1 Claim form. The court counter staff will be able to answer some of your questions regarding how to fill the form in. Attach any evidence. Copy two times and hand the original and a copy to the Court. You will need to pay a fee ( which will be claimed from your debtor as this figure is placed at the bottom of the front page of the N1). If you are on a low income ask the court staff for a fee remission form.

 

Once you have handed the Court two copies of the Claim Form you will the be notified of the hearing date. That is your opportunity to explain to the Judge what has happened.

[Evader]

I forgot to mention, that if some of the court staff are unhelpful please perservere, they are understaffed at the moment so service levels are suffering. But insist that they help you and not just refer you to the CAB!

[IdaInFife]

You will need to take action against your buyer for whatever cost it involves you in the paypal claim.

 

 

Ida x

[whiterose11]

I have received the money that he paid with his credit card via paypal, i transferd the funds into my bank account, so at the moment i am not out of pocket, but i will be if i pay paypal back which is what they are saying because they refunded his credit card, and it put my account with them into a negative balance i cannot belive i have to chase this bloke for the money, i am an honest person and i did everything though the correct channles and belived paypal to be a safe way to transfer money across the internet which is what they make you belive ,

i have no idear where he is, so how will anyone else, so basicaly im going to be the loser i mite win the case in court but finding him and getting him to pay is gona be another matter, so he gets his money and my item

[legalpickle]

As requested by whiterose11, I am coming in to give my advice.

 

You should not have to sue the individual, and from the sound of it, if you tried you wouldn't get the money.

 

His wife would have no right to cancel the transaction as it was their joint credit card, thus he had the right to use it. Thereby Paypal had no right to cancel the transaction, and demand the funds from you.

 

The DCA [Robinson Way?] and Paypal are not likely to take you to court, in my experience, because they know they will lose the case.

 

I suggest you write a letter to Paypal which should be sent to;

Paypal,

Whittaker House,

Whittaker Avenue,

Richmond,

Surrey,

TW9 1EH

 

In it, demand a satisfactory written response within 8 weeks so that you can take it to the Financial Ombudsman Service. Detail your complaint clearly and succinctly. Make clear that you are disputing the debt, therefore it is - in accordance with the OFT debt collection guidelines - unlawful for them to instruct any DCA.

 

Post a draft copy - minus any confidential information - of the letter up here, and I'll try and proof it for you.

 

Once we've proofed it, send it special delivery [not recorded, as that isn't guaranteed] to the address above, and wait 8 weeks from the date they receive it, or till you receive an unsatisfactory response. Check when they receive it by entering the tracking code [which should begin with 'X' 'Y' or 'Z' and end in 'GB'] on Royal Mail's Track and Trace facility at http://track.royalmail.com/portal/rm/track?catId=500185&mediaId=22700601&keyname=track_home

 

When and if you receive - what will almost certainly be an unsatisfactory response - I'll guide you through the FOS process, and what to fill in the FOS form, which you can download from Financial Ombudsman Service. I suggest you download the PDF version, as the Word version has limitations. I'm not sure if you can save the PDF version with text in on your computer, so download - for free - PrimoPDF from Free PDF Creator - Convert to PDF from Any File You Can Print - PrimoPDF, which will allow you to "print" documents into a PDF file, hence saving a completed PDF form [especially useful for court forms].

 

That's all for now. The ball's in your court [pun intended] to draft a letter and post a copy here - minus confidential information - to Paypal.

[whiterose11]

As requested by whiterose11, I am coming in to give my advice.

 

You should not have to sue the individual, and from the sound of it, if you tried you wouldn't get the money.

 

His wife would have no right to cancel the transaction as it was their joint credit card, thus he had the right to use it. Thereby Paypal had no right to cancel the transaction, and demand the funds from you.

 

The DCA [Robinson Way?] and Paypal are not likely to take you to court, in my experience, because they know they will lose the case.

 

I suggest you write a letter to Paypal which should be sent to;

Paypal,

Whittaker House,

Whittaker Avenue,

Richmond,

Surrey,

TW9 1EH

 

In it, demand a satisfactory written response within 8 weeks so that you can take it to the Financial Ombudsman Service. Detail your complaint clearly and succinctly. Make clear that you are disputing the debt, therefore it is - in accordance with the OFT debt collection guidelines - unlawful for them to instruct any DCA.

 

Post a draft copy - minus any confidential information - of the letter up here, and I'll try and proof it for you.

 

Once we've proofed it, send it special delivery [not recorded, as that isn't guaranteed] to the address above, and wait 8 weeks from the date they receive it, or till you receive an unsatisfactory response. Check when they receive it by entering the tracking code [which should begin with 'X' 'Y' or 'Z' and end in 'GB'] on Royal Mail's Track and Trace facility at http://track.royalmail.com/portal/rm/track?catId=500185&mediaId=22700601&keyname=track_home

 

When and if you receive - what will almost certainly be an unsatisfactory response - I'll guide you through the FOS process, and what to fill in the FOS form, which you can download from Financial Ombudsman Service. I suggest you download the PDF version, as the Word version has limitations. I'm not sure if you can save the PDF version with text in on your computer, so download - for free - PrimoPDF from Free PDF Creator - Convert to PDF from Any File You Can Print - PrimoPDF, which will allow you to "print" documents into a PDF file, hence saving a completed PDF form [especially useful for court forms].

 

That's all for now. The ball's in your court [pun intended] to draft a letter and post a copy here - minus confidential information - to Paypal.

 

 

Hi legelpickel

And thanks for the advice, im not sure if it was their joint credit card or her's alone, iv been lead to belive it was her's, but im sure if was her's she allowed him to use it, as i stated in an earlier post , but from his actvity on ebay he was and had been buying a lot of items, so when they split she deceided to stop him using it. All ebay /paypal is to see what card was used to purchace all these items.

but i will do as you have advised am glad you have offered to proof the letter for me, as im not so good at writing letters

many thanks whiterose

[legalpickle]

Hi legelpickel

And thanks for the advice, im not sure if it was their joint credit card or her's alone, iv been lead to belive it was her's, but im sure if was her's she allowed him to use it, as i stated in an earlier post , but from his actvity on ebay he was and had been buying a lot of items, so when they split she deceided to stop him using it. All ebay /paypal is to see what card was used to purchace all these items.

Irrelevant. At the time of purchase he had the right to use the card. End of. That's all that's relevant.

 

but i will do as you have advised am glad you have offered to proof the letter for me, as im not so good at writing letters

many thanks whiterose

No problemo.

[toolongtooshort]

but from his actvity on ebay he was and had been buying a lot of items, so when they split she deceided to stop him using it. All ebay /paypal is to see what card was used to purchace all these items.

 

Have you contacted any of the other sellers around the date of your feedback to see if they also have had a chargeback against the items they sold to him?

 

If so, ask them what action they took also. It may help build a better picture for you and Paypal.

[Evader]

The difficulty with the course of action legalpickle has advised is that the burden appears to fall upon whiterose11. Suppose for instance that the owner of the credit card sticks to her story that she never gave permission to her boyfriend to use the card for that transaction- how does whiterose11 go about proving that she did in fact give permission.

 

In her position, I would go against the buyer, it would be more clearcut. I accept the position adopted that the buyer may not be able to pay any order for damages but the claim may force him to refund the money anyway. You would also have the satisfaction of obtaining judgement against the buyer.

 

Perhaps you should do both, pursue the Finanacial Ombudsman Service and the County Court? This buyer of yours needs to be taught a lesson to not retain items that do not belong to him.

[legalpickle]

The difficulty with the course of action legalpickle has advised is that the burden appears to fall upon whiterose11. Suppose for instance that the owner of the credit card sticks to her story that she never gave permission to her boyfriend to use the card for that transaction- how does whiterose11 go about proving that she did in fact give permission.

No it does not. The item was sent to the same address as to where the credit card was registered to.

 

In her position, I would go against the buyer, it would be more clearcut. I accept the position adopted that the buyer may not be able to pay any order for damages but the claim may force him to refund the money anyway. You would also have the satisfaction of obtaining judgement against the buyer.

The OP has the money. The OP cannot make a claim against the buyer without first refunding the money to Paypal, which would leave the OP out of pocket probably forever, as the OP would be unlikely to recover the money from the buyer.

 

Perhaps you should do both, pursue the Finanacial Ombudsman Service and the County Court?

That's called double claiming and is fraud! Also you can't take matters through the Financial Ombudsman Service that are going through court, suppose the buyer contacts Paypal?

 

This buyer of yours needs to be taught a lesson to not retain items that do not belong to him.

True, but why should the OP be the one to teach him a lesson?

 

 

Evader: I have had many - too many - dealings with Paypal. I have assisted several friends in similar issues with Paypal where Paypal has reversed payments on them when the items were sent out. In every case that I've helped with, when it gets to the FOS, Paypal lay out, because they were unfair in their behaviour. I know of two people who tried taking the buyers to court - or alleged buyers - and both got royally screwed over and ended up losing money over it.

[whiterose11]

yes i did try and contact 2 other buyers that this happened t, but i got no responce, but they did leave negative feed back on his account around the same time as myself .

[whiterose11]

Hi legalpickel

the item was delivered to his place of work and his boss signed for it, so the credit card was not registed tot his place , but i beleive he was still living with his wife when he brought the item, so will this make a difference even though he has sent me a cheque that bounced is that not evedence enough

[whiterose11]

thanks Evader, i no what you mean im hoping that ebay /paypal will look though their records and see what card he paid all his stuff with

[legalpickle]

Hi legalpickel

the item was delivered to his place of work and his boss signed for it, so the credit card was not registed tot his place , but i beleive he was still living with his wife when he brought the item, so will this make a difference even though he has sent me a cheque that bounced is that not evedence enough

Don't worry. Draft the letter and I'll proof it for you.

 

thanks Evader, i no what you mean im hoping that ebay /paypal will look though their records and see what card he paid all his stuff with

Unlikely.