CL Finance/Cohen Claimform - MBNA [ryanair] Credit Card debt **WON**

[Gazza112]

Hi GG

 

 

That's great you managed to claim costs.

 

Yes, could you PM me as need to get it wright?

 

 

Gaz

[guzzleguts]

Hi Gazza

 

The form you need to fill out online is N252 on HMCS website.

 

As to my copy of the bill of costs its on my pc at home will sort that out later if you still need it, but in general i think its best not to go over £300 it is explained well by x20 on that thread.

 

GG

[guzzleguts]

Hi Gazza

 

I cant paste it onto a PM.

 

If you still need to look at my Bill of costs let me know and il E-mail.

 

If i re-type it, it will take me an hour.

 

GG

[Gazza112]

Thanks GG i've PM'd you with my email address.

 

Gaz

[Gazza112]

Hi All

 

 

Just going to put in a bill for wasted costs for this case.

Could someone take a look and see if this is ok to send out and if i've missed anything that could be added.

 

 

 

 

Date 25.7.2009

 

CL Finance Limited

R.O. Kingston House

Centre 27 Business Park

Woodhead Road

Birstall, Batley

WF17 9TD

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

In respect of CL Finance Limited -v- Mr

Case No.

 

I note that you have discontinued this claim and this claim has been struck out by my local County Court , therefore, pursuant to CPR 38.6(1) i respectfully ask that you consider payment of my costs which i feel are reasonable

 

 

1) Time spent researching the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Regulations - 16 hours

 

1.1) time spent researching and reading case law- 13 hours

 

1.2) time spent drafting defence and allocation questionnaire - 3 hours

 

total 32 hours at the litigant in person rate of £9.25 per hour

 

these time scales are a conservative approximation, i feel that i have spent much more time than this however i am trying to remain reasonable

 

Other costs,

 

Printing, stationary and postage £12

 

Letter writing between the myself and MBNA and yourselves 3.5 hours £33.38

 

Tota l= £341.38

 

I respectfully ask that this sum be paid within 21 days,

 

 

I trust the above will suffice

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gaz

[guzzleguts]

You could put after the 21 days

 

If you fail to respond in 21 days i will apply to the court for a Default costs certificate.

 

Or something to that effect.

 

GG

[citizenB]

Hi All

 

 

Just going to put in a bill for wasted costs for this case.

Could someone take a look and see if this is ok to send out and if i've missed anything that could be added.

 

 

 

 

Date 25.7.2009

 

CL Finance Limited

R.O. Kingston House

Centre 27 Business Park

Woodhead Road

Birstall, Batley

WF17 9TD

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

In respect of CL Finance Limited -v- Mr

Case No.

 

I note that you have discontinued this claim and this claim has been struck out by my local County Court , therefore, pursuant to CPR 38.6(1) i respectfully ask that you consider payment of my costs which i feel are reasonable

 

 

1) Time spent researching the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Regulations - 16 hours

 

1.1) time spent researching and reading case law- 13 hours

 

1.2) time spent drafting defence and allocation questionnaire - 3 hours

 

total 32 hours at the litigant in person rate of £9.25 per hour

 

these time scales are a conservative approximation, i feel that i have spent much more time than this however i am trying to remain reasonable

 

Other costs,

 

Printing, stationary and postage £12

 

Letter writing between the myself and MBNA and yourselves 3.5 hours £33.38 (if this is 3.5 hours x 9.25 it should be £32.37)

 

Tota l= £341.38

 

I respectfully ask that this sum be paid within 21 days,

 

 

I trust the above will suffice

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gaz

 

Nice one, Gazza x

[Gazza112]

Thanks GG i'll add that to the costs letter.

 

Just wanted to Confirm that on to of the N252 form i am the Claiment.

Do i put the original Court Reference numbers down, that i first received from the Court.

 

 

Gaz

[citizenB]

I have never seen one of these, Gazza, neither do I have any knowledge of them. I am sure gg will pop back once he sees you have posted.

 

[guzzleguts]

Yes gazza put the court ref number down as was on the claim form, put the figure you want to claim in the first box add £300 to the first figure for the second box, and the bottom figure just add £40 to your first figure.

 

Hope that maks sense

 

GG

[guzzleguts]

Sorry Gazza no im sure they are still the claimant on top of the N252 ( thats what i did) i think your the claimant once it has been served.

 

I hope so anyway, ive had one success and one is pending.

 

If i am wrong i hope someone puts us right.

 

GG

[Gazza112]

Thanks GG, on the form it states interest on the claim form.

What percentage do i put in that box.

 

Gaz

[guzzleguts]

Like i said in a previous post x20 explains this a lot better than i ever could, but i believe that you just add £300 to the figure you want to claim, that figure represents what a solicitor would have charged. unless i am mistaken x20 didnt say add interest, just add the £300 to the first figure.

 

GG

[guzzleguts]

I have pasted x20's post on wasted costs hope thats ok.

 

x20's post

 

I have prepared a draft bill of costs for detailed assessment and draft notice of commencement. Both are attached in pdf format.

 

In drawing the bill I have tried to keep it as uncomplicated as possible whilst seeking to demonstrate how to maximise the amount which might be allowed. The documents may be of general application in litigation to include for example, dealing with a costs claim after successfully obtaining an order setting aside a Statutory Demand, after making all such necessary modifications to suit.

 

The bill begins with a narrative dealing with the nature of the case and the complexity of it as I imagined it may have appeared to the LiP. My imagination should not be treated as a statement of how the complexity in truth appeared to the LiP.

 

Next is a chronological statement of the steps taken in the case as they will appear on the court file. I have not bothered to go through the entire thread to establish what occurred on what day. The LiP will have to do that.

 

I have included provision for time spent which has been charged at an hourly rate of £9.25 in accordance with The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975. I can not stress enough that where time is included this is only a statement of time for the purpose of demonstrating how the figures would appear in the bill. My statement of time is not an estimate of time. Only the LiP can say how much time was spent and my statement of time may be an under- statement or an over-statement, I would not know.

 

It is worth pointing out however that the court will recognise that a LiP will most likely spend more time in a case than a solicitor. The relevant Rule is CPR 48.6 with guidance appearing in The Supreme Court Costs Office Guide (COG) Practice Direction at CPR PD 48 COG 22.4 and .5.

 

The question for the Judge considering the bill is if this case had been conducted by a solicitor, what would that solicitor’s reasonable total charge have been for doing that work? Having arrived at that hypothetical figure, the costs judge will assess the bill but disallow whatever the total bill comes to from exceeding two-thirds of the hypothetical figure.

 

It seems to me the hypothetical solicitor may have spent say 6 hours dealing with all the work set out in the bill from beginning to end. At an average charge of £150.00 per hour, that produces a hypothetical figure of £900.00. In other words therefore, if the Judge held my view about what the hypothetical solicitor may have charged, the amount to be allowed to the LiP ought not to exceed £600.00. As you will see, my draft works out at £573.50.

 

What to do Next

Complete the bill adapting the narrative to your personal experience in terms of actual work done and actual time spent. Feel free to add to it where I have not imagined work which you actually did. Insert the dates and sign and date the bill.

 

Next complete Form N252 available from the HMCS website here.

 

You will ned to complete the court and party details in the box on the RHS.

 

The draft N242 I have completed gives the position as if my figures were used. Where the total used in the bill is to be different, put that figure in the first figure box where N252 says: ‘The bill totals £xxx.xx’. (figure [1])

 

Next, add £300.00 to figure [1] and put whatever this figure in the next box where N252 says:

the full amount payable (including the assessment fee) will be £xxx.xx). (figure [2]).

 

Next insert a date in the box before which is written: ‘You must serve your points of dispute by’. This date will be a date being not less than 21 days after the date on which your opponent receives the bill and the N252. In practice, add 25 days to the date on which you post the bill out to your opponent. If that date should fall on a Saturday or Sunday, insert the date for the following Monday.

 

Next fill out the box which provides a name and address at which the opposition may deliver any response to the bill of costs. The response will be entitled ‘Points of Dispute’. I don’t imagine one will arrive and if one does, how to deal with it will be dealt with in a later advice.

 

Next, leave the box beginning: ‘I certify that I have also served’ blank

 

Next, at the very end of the bill is a third figure box before which is written ‘If I have not received your points of dispute by the above date, I will ask the court to issue a default costs certificate

for the full amount of my bill (see above*) plus fixed costs and court fee in the total amount of £’ . In this box take the figure [1] and add £45.00 to it. This is the figure which goes in this box (figure [3]).

 

Print the N252 off, sign and date it.

 

Next, send the bill and the N252 off to the opposition’s solicitor.

 

After Having Sent the Bill and N252.

Make a note when the 25 days will be up.

 

I would expect the opposition to make contact with you in an attempt to settle the question of your costs. So as to avoid hassle and heartache, I would be prepared to settle at anything which came to about one third rather than two thirds of the hypothetical solicitor’s bill. On my example, that would be around £300.00 plus the court fee. You may want to settle at something less just to be shot of it.

 

If any offer comes in which is wildly below £300.00 post to this site for advice. I would imagine the opposition will be very keen to settle since objecting will tie them into expense they will wish to avoid and any savings will soon be wiped out by employing a solicitor to deal with the objections.

 

When the cheque comes in, make a donation to CAG.

 

If you have not heard from the opposition by when the 25 days are up you will be entitled to apply to the court for a default costs certificate. When that moment arrives, post here.

 

Any queries, just ask.

 

x20

Attached FilesDraft LiP bill of costs for detailed assessment.pdf (56.6 KB, 202 views)Draft Notice of Commencement.pdf (29.9 KB, 146 views)

GG

[Gazza112]

Thanks GG for posting that up much appriciated.

 

Gaz

[Gazza112]

Thanks for your help GG, i've finalised my wasted costs and Filled in the N252 form to go with it.

I've recorded a copy to Howard Cohen and a copy to CL finance.

Now we can sit back and see if they respond to the claim, very much dowt anything will come of it. If going on paperwork i've ask for in the past, but would love to see there faces when they open the letters up .

 

Gaz

[guzzleguts]

I believe you send it to their solicitor only, its up to you if you want to serve them but i wouldn't bother.

 

GG

[Gazza112]

Hi GG

 

Yes, i know but the way that firm handle thing i sent it to both of them just to make sure.

Just have to wait and see what comes through the post.

 

Gaz

[guzzleguts]

Thats fair enough maybe i should iof done the same with cohens and cl finance, because they didnt reply, i am about to apply to the court for a Default costs certificate.

 

GG

[Gazza112]

Hi Andyorch, CCM and x20

 

I wonder if one of you could take a look at my other MBNA thread.

I'm stuck at what would be the best thing to do, with the Court date looming up next month.

It's Gazza112 -Vs - Abbey/MBNA.

Gaz

[Gazza112]

Hi All

 

Just wanted to ask, allthough this one got struck out.

Do i need to fill in a form N244 to the Courts, as i read on the forum that cases can be reinstated after strike outs.

 

Gaz

[steven4064]

Yes and you have to provide a witness statement to go with it laying out the argument as to why the strike out should be set aside

[Gazza112]

Hi Steven

 

Thanks for looking in on my thread.

 

OK, so the witness statement would be on the lines of.

No Agreement

Invalid DN

Case History

 

Something on those lines, never done this before so am a bit green.

 

Gaz

[steven4064]

Yes, something like that. You could base the wording on one of the many defences knocking aroud the site. You will also find the layout for a WS around too.

[andymanx]

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