help an internet forum is ruining my business!

[rolfey1]

I don't know if there is law covering internet forums but I own a Public House & there is a local guide to the area which there seems to be one for every town in the County (I think it's a franchise) anyhow there is a general forum & a pub review forum. Problem is people can post to the forum without registering so go under any disguise they want. Under the pub review recently has been some slanderous comments about my bar maid (she wants to sue for slander) and there are some really horrible posts about us as publicans & our pub, 38 so called 'reviews' so far (other pubs are hardly mentioned). I suspect I know who the people are that are doing it & have complained to the side moderators about 6 weeks ago asking that they remove it all and also asking that they update our details about opening times etc. they have ignored my email. Also I have emailed what I assume to be the holding Company of all these sites and mentioned that it's a police matter and I need to know the site owner. Still no reply. On other areas of the forum you can find out who is drug dealing & where you can get drugs. The site should be closed down & is clearly not being moderated.

 

When you google our pub name this site comes up second, our turnover has noticibly dropped recently & we are recieving no christmas bookings.

 

Is there any law covering this & what shoud I do ?

Thanks

[SharpmanTF1]

BBC NEWS | Technology | Be careful what you say on the net

 

Take a look at the above bbc story. may be of use

 

Sharpman

[SharpmanTF1]

Libel and slander on the world wide web - The INQUIRER

 

and this one

[bazak1]

Internet forums are usually "policed" by its moderators, so i'm suprised they wont sort it for you. They wont usually tolerate that kind of behaviour.

[slick132]

Hi Rolfey,

 

I'm no expert on this but I think we're dealing with Libel here. I believe slander deals with the spoken word and libel deals with that which has been written and/or published.

 

The individuals making derogatory comments may hide behind anonimous user names but the site on which they are published has responsibility for what is published.

 

As Site helpers on CAG, we have to watch out for, and quickly remove, anything we think could be libellous on the forums to avoid people suing the Site. If someone complains that they feel comments are libellous, we investigate and remove anything that we feels exposes the Site to the risk of Libel litigation.

 

In your case, you need to get an address for either the company or person that runs the site, or the company or person which publishes the site on-line.

 

Then send a Recorded Delivery letters to the company or persons specifying the derogatory comments, and the dates on which they were made. Tell them you require the immediate removal of the comments and an apology to be posted and left on-site for a specified period.

 

Take "Screen Shots" (using the Print Screen button) of the offending posts and save them on your computer. Print them as well for safe-keeping.

 

I believe, in reality, taking such a case to court would be prohibitively expensive but there's no harm in trying what I've suggested.

 

See what others think first, and I'll see if any of the Site Team have any further advice.

[Conniff]

Make sure you get screen shots or printouts of all the offending pages Rolfey in case they disappear but the problems still continue.

[callumsgran]

Wasn't gumtree was it?

 

How does this work if someone 'steals' your username to cause trouble on another site?

[slick132]

The Site owner is responsible for the site content, regardless of who actually posts the comments.

 

If your name is being wrongly used to post on a forum to discredit you as the poster, that is a separate issue.

 

If this is happening, CallumsGran, can I suggest you start a new thread so we don't hijack this one.

[callumsgran]

The Site owner is responsible for the site content, regardless of who actually posts the comments.

 

If your name is being wrongly used to post on a forum to discredit you as the poster, that is a separate issue.

 

If this is happening, CallumsGran, can I suggest you start a new thread so we don't hijack this one.

Yes it has happened to me but never mind

Sorry i asked but it was relevant

[slick132]

Yes it has happened to me but never mind

Sorry i asked but it was relevant

Hi CG, I wasn't being dismissive and sorry if you thought so.

 

Start a thread for it and send me a link by PM if you want me to take a look.

[rolfey1]

Thanks for all your help, particularly sharpman for those links. I'm still not sure how to act on this as I cannot find an address for the site & no it's not gum tree - it's one of those ones that gives all local information & local news & gets it's revenue from advertising. It frustrates me that they have a pub / restaurant review section where people can post anonymously, they don't even have to register so you can't tell how many different people are posting, it could all just be one person out to get us, but it looks really bad when you do a google search on our pub, or pubs in the area & all this bickering comes up - I wouldn't want to come to my pub if I saw it!

 

As I said before I have tried emailing them & asking for it to be removed but they are ignoring me. Does anyone know if there is any specific regulation about forums & moderators, response times etc that would strengthen a case, if I could find someone to help me without any up front fees (and thats another problem!)

[slick132]

Hi Rolfey,

 

Why not have a friend contact the site Admin on the basis of wanting to promote a business or service on the site. Find out who's behind it that way.

 

Or post on the site yourself giving the site Admin 48 hours to remove all derogatory statements about your pub, or you'll take legal action seeking damages.

[Bookworm]

However...

 

You'd have to be careful on how you proceed... If the reviews are written as genuine, then it may not be libellous. Also you'd have to be able to prove that the drop in income or lack of bookings is down to those comments and not say to the global credit crunch affecting just about every person or business in the western world? Not being funny, but I think you'd have a hard job to substantiate that.

[stardust_john]

I think it good advice to post on the site yourself and give your opinion of the posts previous. You see this sort of thing on other forums and the recipiant of these claims has to be given a chance to dispute them. Mention defamation and court fines and it should stop them hopefully.

[slick132]

2 more useful links which I've lifted from Rory32's reply on CallumsGran's thread:-

 

The issue of whether a person who hosts content is responsible for it is now largely covered by statute, and in particular the Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations (SI 2013/2002)

 

There is of course the well known case of Godfrey v Demon Internet Ltd (1999). Callumsgran's case is however a little different in that it's her username rather than her actual name used but perhaps still worth taking the time to read over Godfrey v. Demon Internet Limited [1999] EWHC QB 244 (26th March, 1999)

[slick132]

Bookie raises good points...............

 

Pubs generally are being closed at a higher rate now than for decades due to the smoking ban and current problems with the economy.

 

I didn't suggest Rolfey attempts to substantiate anything as I don't think court action for Libel is the answer.

 

A complaint, however, should be taken seriously by the site's Admin and any comments which cannot be substantiated should be removed. The threat of action should be sufficient (in an ideal world:rolleyes:).

[Bookworm]

Bookie usually does.

 

I know you weren't suggesting that. ;-)

 

My concern is about making threats which one is then not ready to carry out. One of the mantras on CAG is never to say you're going to do something and then not do it, so I'd be a bit concerned about that.

 

Having said that, there is no harm in contacting the site's owners and see what they have to say, if anything.

[peterlucas]

Of course regardless of the loss of business issue, defamation can lead to damages on the basis of damage to reputation.

[Spiceskull]

Best advice so far on this thread - be surreptitious, pretend to be another business looking for advertising, then find out who is behind the site.

 

Once done, send them a sharp, recorded letter - be clear on what your concerns are (defamation) and what you 'reasonably' expect them to do - remove posts, post an apology, give you a right to reply, and post a warning about the merits of future similar comments.

 

Also be clear about what will happen if they do not accede to your request - as Bookie says (Christ, I hate to agree with her...again...) don't make idle threats. If your next action is a letter before action, then say so, you don't need to threaten court action until you are ready to do so.

 

This is a tricky situation, and one that could a) get out of hand and b) end up with you getting egg on your face. If a retraction and a stop to future postings is all you require, then be explicitly clear in this.

[MrShed]

Have you done a NS zone search? Quite possible that the registrar details are viewable.

[callumsgran]

Have you done a NS zone search? Quite possible that the registrar details are viewable.

Whats that when its at home? lol

[bazak1]

Name Server. I believe these are used so it is known where to send reply messages etc ( or something like that ).

[callumsgran]

Cheers 4 that

[rolfey1]

No I still cannot find an address for the site holder. it seems all the advertising on it is free. God knows how they earn an income.

 

As my emails are ignored, I don't want to post any more comments on the site myself as it makes it look worse. i have posted professional replies to the genuine ones, making it clear that they are from the pub & I have also put a paragraph on to update everyone about our news, why we have had to change our menu, opening times etc. People have just written more stuff above it.

 

Ok I will give up trying to sue for loss of business - but my barmaid want's to sue for libel, as there are three posts specifically about her (and not in the performance of her job as bar maid)

 

I just need to find an address - could i pm someone the website details?

[slick132]

I'm rubbish with the techy stuff.

 

Try PM to Mr Shed or one of the others that suggested solutions to tracing the operator/publisher.