court papers from wedding venue/Counterclaim Made & Won!

[tiglet]

subbing

[sparkycpu]

Hi lp,

 

yet again you have done wonders

 

my wife and i will consider the points and i will post back, have had a read and will do so again later and see what more i can add.

 

I received my claim form on Friday 29th August and posted my acknowledement of service 3rd Sept

 

sorry tiglet what do you mean "subbing"

Edited September 15, 2008 by sparkycpu

[legalpickle]

Hi lp,

 

yet again you have done wonders

Exaggerations aren't necessary

 

You did the work, I only poked and prodded to make it better. That's how teamwork works and is why when you succeed you'll have something to be proud of, because you put the effort in and I only helped.

 

my wife and i will consider the points and i will post back, have had a read and will do so again later and see what more i can add.

Ok. Waiting for you. I'll finish this part of the defence off tomorrow or Wednesday.

 

I received my claim form on Friday 29th August and posted my acknowledement of service 3rd Sept

Wednesday is 2 weeks over.

 

Call the court to make sure they received your acknowledgment of service and we've got another week - being on the safe side - to finish this.

 

sorry tiglet what do you mean "subbing"

tiglet is interested in the thread, so wanted to subscribe. tiglet therefore posted a message "subbing" so that tiglet could subscribe to the thread as for some reason it interests the tiglet.

[tiglet]

The tiglet (I like it ) is interested as a friend is having problems with a wedding venue and although it's not at court papers stage, i wanted to keep an eye on the thread in case something may come up which helps them.

 

Good luck with it all - it sounds as if you're getting good advice.

[Bookworm]

Sorry for brief hijack, but:

 

*Ahem*

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1031237.html

 

;-)

[tiglet]

Sorry (hangs head in shame ... )

[Bookworm]

Awww don't, it's just so many people don't seem to know.

[tiglet]

Well I didn't, so after all my posts, i must be the thickest person on here

[sparkycpu]

Originally Posted by sparkycpu

Hi lp, my altered summary, couple more changes.

 

When the evening reception was underway, an announcement was made over the microphone that the evening buffet was being served, at this time I was walking round still talking to guests.

 

1. On approaching three of my guests I noticed that they were eating plates of chicken curry and rice, when I asked them about this they said there was a choice of chicken curry or meat in gravy. This was later found to be beef bourguignon. There was also pasta salad. They commented that these were strange things to have on offer. I gave my apologies and told them it was meant to be a hot finger buffet consisting of hot sausages, chicken wings, potatoe skins & garlic bread.

 

This mistake was even more upsetting and distressing as when I went to see some more guests, the same reaction was given by them to what was served, I found myself apologising more and more as I went around the room.

 

2. When I spoke to my wife she had been doing the same thing as I and we were both shocked and upset about what had happened, as at no time had we been told our hot finger buffet was to be replaced by what was now on offer and felt very disappointed that the venue had thought this would be appropriate food to serve. We would have definitely rejected such a menu.

 

3. Being faced with the choice of asking them to stop serving the food, in which case none of our guests would eat, or let them continue serving, so at least some people would eat, we decided after much consideration to let them carry on serving the food.

 

4. In my opinion the food served was far from adequate and the manner in which this was served resembled a school canteen. This was certainly not fit for a wedding. Neither of my own children would eat anything, and as has come to light since, some guests were leaving early to get to the chip shop or take away for themselves or there children.

 

5. To find this out after the occasion has left us feeling as though we provided a cheap, token gesture of food for all our guests, not the wonderfully described hot finger buffet we had ordered and were expecting.

 

6. In addition, the numerous vegetarians that had been to the wedding, and the ones that turned up for the reception, had a choice of a pasta dish or plain rice, also not as we were expecting and was considered to be a poor substitute for a vegetarian option in the hot finger buffet .

 

7. The event was made even worse by the rudeness of the staff. One example was how rude the staff member was when I asked where one of my children’s and my wife's child's main meals were. I was faced with an attitude of not my problem, sort it out yourself and was left to find J to find out what was going on.

8. After the invoice was received I personally went to the venue to see J and discuss all my concerns, J was not available and the secretary noted all the points I had raised. I was told J would be in touch concerning these matters. I was never called by J to discuss any of the matters I had raised and all correspondences since have been by letter.

9. When I pointed out on the invoice that we had been overcharged for the table wine and toasting wine, I was firstly I was told that the wine supply is changed in October and my quote was subject to change according to this. I pointed out that this is not stated anywhere, and was not told to either my wife or I. I also mentioned that my quote was sent in February which by this time the prices should already be known. The next response I got concerning the overcharging of wine was that it was due to a tax rise which I contend should also have been known about when the quote was provided, especially for a venue that is likely to provide quotes to include wine that far in advance.

 

10. The general attitude that I got from the venue was that, according to them, we had a good day. They claim to be sorry for the mistakes that they had made during the day, but still want the money for ruining our wedding day. I pointed out one of the guests had seen staff taking food from the buffet, and was told my comments on this were unnecessary and completely wrong.

I find this behaviour hard to comprehend considering they are meant to be are a professional wedding venue and their mistakes, and how they are handled after, should be of great importance.

11. The months of planning and the time that had gone into getting everything right for our special day should have assured us that the day would be perfect for us. My wife and I feel that the venues incompetence to get basic pre-arranged matters correct has left us with nothing but bad memories of the day.

 

12. Instead of a day of which only good and special memories should exist, only negative memories remain. This court claim by the venue has been the icing on the cake of something that has deeply upset, aggravated and distressed my wife and I. We will never be able to recreate the atmosphere of this, once in a lifetime, day again and we now find it impossible to look back with any happiness at what should have been our very special day.

 

Still trying to quantify an amount but will keep u posted asap

[sparkycpu]

Hi all,

 

Have had a think on compensation for what has happened,

 

£152 for supplying wrong buffet, this will bring the the cost of the buffet down to £750 which is half of the total amount, this still leaves £750 for Heating, lighting, power, and staff wages.

 

£100 for the embaresment caused by having to apologise to guests for the food served and the fact guests had to leave early to feed themselves.

 

£250 for the bad memories and distress caused by the venues mistakes on the day, and subsequent stress and time involved in sorting out this claim.

 

dont know if this seems right or not as trying to quantify such things has been a strange one to work out, please give me yours views on the amount and i will take it from there.

 

many thanks sparky

[sparkycpu]

ok had a double check and this has got to be in by thursday 25th so any advice would be gratefull

[legalpickle]

Hi all,

 

Have had a think on compensation for what has happened,

 

£152 for supplying wrong buffet, this will bring the the cost of the buffet down to £750 which is half of the total amount, this still leaves £750 for Heating, lighting, power, and staff wages.

 

£100 for the embaresment caused by having to apologise to guests for the food served and the fact guests had to leave early to feed themselves.

 

£250 for the bad memories and distress caused by the venues mistakes on the day, and subsequent stress and time involved in sorting out this claim.

 

dont know if this seems right or not as trying to quantify such things has been a strange one to work out, please give me yours views on the amount and i will take it from there.

 

many thanks sparky

Sounds good. Will work on finishing the defence tonight or tomorrow late morning so we can thrash it out by Monday latest and it can be sent to the court special delivery on Tuesday absolute latest.

 

Note however, that you can't claim for the time involved in dealing with this claim, as that is considered costs, which above the court fees, you cannot claim in small claims track, so I am rewording things for you and will be posting back either later tonight or tomorrow early afternoon latest.

 

ok had a double check and this has got to be in by thursday 25th so any advice would be gratefull

Ok.

Edited September 20, 2008 by legalpickle

[legalpickle]

Done and dusted. Attached.

 

What do you think?

sparkycpu-defence&counterclaim.doc

[sparkycpu]

very good job.

 

I shall post recorded on monday.

 

sorry if i missed it somewhere but do i just need to send in this document and the witness statements to the court along with my defence form, or do i need to send copies of all the letters and emails i have as well from myself and the venue. also how many copies of the above items do i need to send ?

[legalpickle]

very good job.

 

I shall post recorded on monday.

 

sorry if i missed it somewhere but do i just need to send in this document and the witness statements to the court along with my defence form, or do i need to send copies of all the letters and emails i have as well from myself and the venue. also how many copies of the above items do i need to send ?

 

Firstly, only send by special delivery, not recorded delivery - big difference!

 

Secondly, to answer your questions. Send 1 copy to the court and 1 to the defendant. You haven't posted here details of the letters and correspondence between you and the venue, so I can't recommend to send copies to the court till I have seen it, in case it needs an explanation in the defence.

 

I therefore recommend pushing the defence off a day and tomorrow copying all the documents - minus personal information - into the forum, so that I can advise you what to send and if to explain it. Also, where there is more than one attachment, I recommend detailing a list of the attachments in the defence.

 

Finally, a cover letter should be sent with both, and to the court a cheque of £50 made payable to 'HMCS'. To the court it should have the court address, with 'The Court Manager' written above the address, like this;

 

The Court Manager,

... County Court,

....

 

23rd September 2008

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write further to claim number [put claim no. here] of [put claimant vs. defendant here].

 

I hereby enclose my defence and counterclaim against the Claimant together with a cheque made payable to 'HMCS' for £50 in respect of the issue fee for my counterclaim against the Claimant.

 

I confirm that I have sent a copy to the Claimant today.

 

I look forward to receiving the Allocation Questionnaire in due course.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

sparkycpu

------------------------------------------------------------------------

And to the Claimant:

 

claimants address goes here

 

23rd September 2008

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write further to your claim against me in [enter name of court County Court] with the claim number [enter claim number].

 

I hereby attach a copy of my defence and counterclaim against you. I can confirm that a copy has been filed at the court today.

 

The court will be issuing Allocation Questionnaires in due course, with which your defence to my counterclaim will be expected, and a copy will be expected to be served on me.

 

You are, of course, always welcome to settle this counterclaim and withdraw your claim and to avoid yourselves the costs of proceeding to a hearing.

 

Sincerely,

 

sparkycpu

[sparkycpu]

Many, many thanks for your help so far, have had a horrendous couple of weeks at work so havent been able to keep a check on here for postings.

 

I didnt send any of the letters, or emails sent or recieved, to the court with my papers just filed my defence and counterclaim and left it at that.

 

I Have recieved my allocation questionair which i have filled in and shall be posted tomorrow, I have not heard anything from the venue regarding settlement so i will keep you posted when something happens.

 

many thanks again especially legalpickle youve been a great help.

[legalpickle]

Many, many thanks for your help so far, have had a horrendous couple of weeks at work so havent been able to keep a check on here for postings.

 

I didnt send any of the letters, or emails sent or recieved, to the court with my papers just filed my defence and counterclaim and left it at that.

 

I Have recieved my allocation questionair which i have filled in and shall be posted tomorrow, I have not heard anything from the venue regarding settlement so i will keep you posted when something happens.

 

many thanks again especially legalpickle youve been a great help.

I was starting to get worried about you!

 

Did you send a cheque with the defence and counterclaim to the court? As you didn't send a cover letter I suggest you call the court to verify that they have registered a counterclaim.

 

Also, I recommend you post what you want to put in the AQ here - and which AQ it is [N149 or N150] - so that I can help you fill it in and be safe for certain. I recommend to attach a Proposed Draft Order which I can prepare here for you.

[sparkycpu]

Yes i sent sent the money and the cover letter you drafted in with the wife she took in in by hand and sorted it out at the desk, the charge for my counterclaim was £45.

 

Also posted the copy and other cover letter to the venue.

 

I have already filled and posted the AQ back to the court.

 

I shall keep the post informed of any future updates.

[legalpickle]

Yes i sent sent the money and the cover letter you drafted in with the wife she took in in by hand and sorted it out at the desk, the charge for my counterclaim was £45.

Yup, sorry my mistake. £50 was the old fee, it is £45 now.

 

Also posted the copy and other cover letter to the venue.

Great.

 

I have already filled and posted the AQ back to the court.

It would be beneficial for you and for others monitoring this thread if in future you posted up here and took on board others input for everything in this claim.

 

Whilst I don't doubt that you are - especially with your wife's assistance - extremely competent and able to handle this yourself, having somebody who is not involved to give a non-biased opinion on matters and what to write can't hurt and may even help. Even with something as simple as an AQ.

 

Also for others monitoring the thread who may want to know how things go and use your experiences for their benefit in future having as much info as possible would be good.

 

I shall keep the post informed of any future updates.

Please do. Please give us as much time as possible to respond, though I know that due to the timeframes the court will impose you will be under time pressure.

 

A few things before I sign off:

 

1. Did you attach all previous communication between the wedding venue and yourself? If not, good, please post details here so I can tell you what I consider relevant and what not. If yes, not to worry, but please post details here so that we can deal with it when you are prepped for the hearing.

 

2. Did you attach witness statements of guests at the wedding? Ideally if you could post them here with all names as initials so that we can make sure you have the best possible statements, this would benefit you.

 

3. The next steps are as follows. The court will allocate the hearing and tell you and the Claimant each to pay a hearing fee. This fee will be refunded if the court is told that either case is discontinued or settled more than 7 days before the hearing. You should also have a date by when any further documents you intend to rely upon should be filed by the court. You should also receive a copy of the Claimant's/Counter-Defendant's defence, details of which you should post here, so that we can formulate a response - something I prefer to do in writing.

 

4. Did you attach a Proposed Draft Order to the AQ? If not, I have made one below which I suggest you attach to a cover letter to the court saying something like;

The Court Manager,

... County Court,

...

 

6th October 2008

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write further to claim no.:

in which I am the Defendant & Counterclaimant. I recently filed my Allocation Questionnaire but did not submit with this a Proposed Draft Order.

 

It would be much appreciated if you could forward the attached Proposed Draft Order to the District Judge dealing with the allocation of this matter prior to the allocation.

 

Sincerely,

 

sparkycpu

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Proposed Draft Order: Use the same letterhead that I previously supplied you with. In the title line write 'DEFENDANT / COUNTER-CLAIMANT'S PROPOSED DIRECTIONS'.

 

1. This claim be allocated to the Small Claims Track.

 

2. The parties shall exchange the following not later than 4:00pm 21 days prior to the date of the hearing;

a. The written statements of evidence of any witness whose evidence is relied on in support of or in

defence of the claim.

b. Copies of any documents which a party proposes to rely on.

 

3. The hearing of the claim be allocated to the first available hearing that is convenient to both parties with a time allocation of .

 

4. The Claimant pays to the Court office the hearing fee of £25 no later than 4:00pm 14 days prior to the date of the hearing. Failure to do so will result in their claim being struck out.

 

5. The Counterclaimant pays to the Court office the hearing fee of £50 no later than 4:00pm 14 days prior to the date of the hearing. Failure to do so will result in his counterclaim being struck out.

 

5. Either party may decide not to attend by notifying the Court and the other party by no later than 4pm 7 days prior to the date of the hearing that they cannot or do not wish to attend and request the Court to consider their statement of case in their absence pursuant to CPR 27.9. Should a party not attend and have not notified the Court and the other party of their intention not to attend, their statement of case will be struck out.

 

7. If the Court is notified that either claim is settled by no later than 4:00pm 7 days prior to the date of the hearing, the respective claimant will have their hearing fee refunded by the court office.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Please keep us posted.

 

Best of Luck.

[sparkycpu]

Hi lp,

 

1. No i havent sent in any of the letters between ourselves and the venue, I have uploaded a couple of letters that we sent out, I cant find an easy way of copying the venues ones onto my pc as this would mean me having to type them in by hand and post them.

 

If you think they are needed i can type them in and post them.

 

2. The court told me not to hand any witness statements in until a later date, they just wanted mine. again i have the same problem with getting them onto my pc but i can type them in if you feel i need to.

 

3. I am awaiting these documents.

 

4. No i didnt send a draft order, I will send the letter to the court as you specified.

 

ty again, hopefully i should be about a bit more, work has slowed down again.

lett 4 cag.doc

lett 4 cagg2.doc

[legalpickle]

Hi lp,

 

1. No i havent sent in any of the letters between ourselves and the venue, I have uploaded a couple of letters that we sent out, I cant find an easy way of copying the venues ones onto my pc as this would mean me having to type them in by hand and post them.

 

If you think they are needed i can type them in and post them.

 

2. The court told me not to hand any witness statements in until a later date, they just wanted mine. again i have the same problem with getting them onto my pc but i can type them in if you feel i need to.

 

3. I am awaiting these documents.

 

4. No i didnt send a draft order, I will send the letter to the court as you specified.

 

ty again, hopefully i should be about a bit more, work has slowed down again.

Did you supply your wife's witness statement? The court was wrong. You can supply as many witness statements as you want with your defence & counterclaim - and I prefer to do so then - but you should also be given another date for supplying them.

 

Yes, please do type in all correspondence between you & the venue. It is all relevant and should be vetted first. Edit: If you have a fax machine you can sign up for a free fax-to-email service from jfax [can't enter commercial links in the forum, so search for it in Google] or one of the many other services that offer free fax numbers and fax from your fax to the number they give you and you'll receive it in your e-mail. You can then upload that as an attachment here.

 

I will comment on your attachments when they are approved.

 

Please keep us posted about anything you receive from the court and the venue.

 

It may be worth faxing the proposed draft order with the cover letter to the court instead of posting it and calling at the end of the week or beginning of next week to see how far they are with the allocation. Some courts take anything up to two months!

 

Please note that between 5-6pm on Monday 13th till 7-8pm on Wednesday 16th and 5-6pm on Monday 20th till 7-8pm on Wednesday 22nd as well as late afternoon on Friday's till early night on Saturday's, I will be offline and unable to respond due to Jewish festivals and the Sabbath. Please therefore try your best to give me as much time as possible to respond for your benefit.

Edited October 11, 2008 by legalpickle
small addition re: fax-to-email

[sparkycpu]

Hi all,

 

sorry i havent posted been caos at work again,

 

What has happened!

 

I spoke to the court and the venue had not returned the AQ so they sent out a judgement that unless it was filled it would be struck out, waited a week for that and phoned the court still no AQ.

 

asked for it to be sent to the judge for it to be struck out i was told i would be told within two days, that never happened so phoned tues 28th and was told it hadnt been sent to the judge yet was told to phone wed 29th, called them and was informed the venue had sent a letter of discontinuation to the court and they were ceasing the claim.

 

At the moment it is with the judge who is deciding what to do regarding the claim being ceased and is deciding what to do regarding my counterclaim.

 

I have been told i will recieve the judges directions regarding my counterclaim sometime next week.

 

So at the moment all is good and shall keep you posted when i get a response from the court.

 

TY again LP you have been a great help, i am sure they were cursing when they got the defence and counterclaim !!!

[legalpickle]

Hi all,

 

sorry i havent posted been caos at work again,

 

What has happened!

 

I spoke to the court and the venue had not returned the AQ so they sent out a judgement that unless it was filled it would be struck out, waited a week for that and phoned the court still no AQ.

 

asked for it to be sent to the judge for it to be struck out i was told i would be told within two days, that never happened so phoned tues 28th and was told it hadnt been sent to the judge yet was told to phone wed 29th, called them and was informed the venue had sent a letter of discontinuation to the court and they were ceasing the claim.

WOW! Amazing news! I still recommend that you continue with your claim. Whilst they'll deny it, their withdrawal of the claim seems to be an admittance of guilt.

 

At the moment it is with the judge who is deciding what to do regarding the claim being ceased and is deciding what to do regarding my counterclaim.

Has the Claimant filed a defence? If not then you should get Judgment in Default against the Claimant.

 

If they have he'll probably make an order like the one I proposed - which is the standard order - but taking out the bits instructing the Claimant to pay a hearing fee and your claim will proceed.

 

In the alternative, he'll give the Claimant 14 days or so to file a defence or you can claim Judgment in Default.

 

I have been told i will recieve the judges directions regarding my counterclaim sometime next week.

Please keep us posted.

 

So at the moment all is good and shall keep you posted when i get a response from the court.

Looking forward.

 

TY again LP you have been a great help, i am sure they were cursing when they got the defence and counterclaim !!!

No problemo, happy to help. Yup, me too!

 

 

I would recommend sending a short fax to the court stating that you believe Judgment should be granted in default against the Claimant. I've drafted one below;

The Court Manager,

... County Court,

.....

 

 

31st October 2008

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write further to claim number

8claimnumber

, which was issued against me by [claimant's name]. I subsequently made a counterclaim against the Claimant.

 

I have since been informed by your court office, that the Claimant has not filed their Allocation Questionnaire and has discontinued their claim.

 

I have also not received any defence from the Claimant in response to my counterclaim against them.

 

On this basis, I would request that the District Judge dealing with the claim awards Judgment in Default against the Claimant for my counterclaim for the claimed amount of £... including the court fee of £45 paid on issue of my counterclaim.

 

I look forward to receiving this Judgment as soon as possible.

 

Sincerely,

 

I don't have the amount you claimed in front of me, so put the figure in there.

 

Please keep us posted as soon as you hear anything.

 

So far, so amazing. I would have thought they would have tried to settle your claim with you rather than stupidly discontinuing their claim, leaving them less to barter with. It's obvious they issued an opportunistic claim and didn't have any clue about court procedure, assuming you would pay up or not pay up and they would get a Judgment in Default and enforce it. I bet they didn't expect a counterclaim!

[sparkycpu]

Hi LP,

 

I will get the letter printed and sent off to the court, I did ask if the venue had filled a defence and was told they hadnt,

 

I then asked if it could be sent to the judge for judgement by default and i was told that "we are not legally trained and that the judge would decide and i would hear from them in due course".

 

As you said i am not disocntinuing my claim and i shall send the letter as well:).

[legalpickle]

sparky,

 

This was two weeks ago. Has anything happened? Have you received a nice Judgment against the wedding venue yet?

 

Please update us. If you've not heard anything, then I suggest you call the court on Monday and ask what is happening.

 

Looking forward to notching another big success on CAG's belt with the legalpickle's assistance!

 

Regards,

legalpickle