Defaults Including Charges And Interest Settled, Rbs And Equifax Refusing To Remove Info

[vint1954]

Right guys a biggie to swallow but ive lost, case dismissed.

 

This morning I received a revised sekelton argument from cobbetts, (this was refered to continuosly throughout the hearing and the judge commented on a well put skelenton argument in his summing up)

 

I had mentioned that I was finding it difficult to respond to the new skelenton argument as I hadnt actually been able to read it on the way to court and it was the first time id seen it in the court room but this was part way throught the hearing, once i was getting very confused

 

The judge was satified that on the Balance of Probabilities the Default Notice and Termination Notices were sent, and that the CCA was enforcable and that the information disclosed to the credit refernce agencies was accurate

 

Also he commented that I had over egged my section 7 SAR leading for it to be disproportionate, he explained that the defendant had complied with my SAR

 

the bank didnt have to comply with my S10 Notice as they werent processing my data

 

also my claims for distress was insufficient

 

 

Hadituptohere

That realy is a poor judge Hadituptohere.

 

How can he say the documents were OK if he could not see them. very strange.

 

What is your next move.

[Hadituptohere]

I really dont know but if you could have heard the dribble pouring out youd have been as sick as I was, my mind was raging and screeming appeal, the judge called part his fact finding....

 

The cheeky barrister was loving the total attention the judge was giving her and even tried to pursue costs which I received a notice of almost 4000.00 for this morning with the amended argument.....

 

Hadituptohere

[vint1954]

I really dont know but if you could have heard the dribble pouring out youd have been as sick as I was, my mind was raging and screeming appeal, the judge called part his fact finding....

 

The cheeky barrister was loving the total attention the judge was giving her and even tried to pursue costs which I received a notice of almost 4000.00 for this morning with the amended argument.....

 

Hadituptohere

This sound very off to me. May be worth a new thread with *** lost*** at the end, to get further advice and opinions.

[banker_rhymes_with]

You must Appeal.

 

This morning I received a revised sekelton argument from cobbetts, (this was refered to continuosly throughout the hearing and the judge commented on a well put skelenton argument in his summing up)

 

That is an ambush.

 

I had mentioned that I was finding it difficult to respond to the new skelenton argument as I hadnt actually been able to read it on the way to court and it was the first time id seen it in the court room but this was part way throught the hearing, once i was getting very confused

 

The Judge should've known better. You are a Litigant in Person, they are a Firm of Lawyers, that Skeleton was dumped on you on the day, it was an ambush. If he'd been doing his job, he would've called for an adjournment.

 

The judge was satified that on the Balance of Probabilities the Default Notice and Termination Notices were sent, and that the CCA was enforcable and that the information disclosed to the credit refernce agencies was accurate

 

The Judge was wrong to do so. He is using the phrase Balance of Probabilities just to hide the fact that there was zero evidence. There was no balance and nothing was probable, he just wanted to steer it the way he wanted without the awkward issue of evidence getting in his way.

 

...also my claims for distress was insufficient...

 

Pro-bank Judges can never see anything wrong with Harassment.

 

It is a PITA, but I would Appeal. Have a beer, take the night off, then come out fighting and take this fight back to them.

 

The only way to stop this sort of nonsense is to Appeal.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Hadituptohere]

BRW

I said clearly twice or three times that I wasnt happy about the argument being used and during the case I got lost in what was going on around me whilst I was checking the new argument to the old and the two clearly differ but he wasnt having it....

 

I will be requesting the audio from the case a.s.a.p

 

Hadituptohere

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello H!

 

If you do Appeal, you have 21 days to get it all together.

 

The Transcript will need to be sent to an approved Transcriber. I can recommend a good one who has been decent to several Caggers.

 

The Transcript will be in two parts, the Judgment, and then the rest of the Hearing. The Judgment is the minimum, but the rest will contain a lot of useful bits.

 

The Judgment has to be approved by the Judge, and there can only ever be one copy of that.

 

You need to ask permission to Appeal, so get that underway ASAP. The Judge may refuse, in which case he must complete an N460. You need that adding to your Appeal.

 

The Transcript will take at least a week so the sooner you get that started, the better. I think you need to order that on Form EX107.

 

Check out Shakespear62's Thread, as he is well into an Appeal, and a lot of the steps are outlined there.

 

Chin up, round one to them. They've won the battle, not the war.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[vjohn82]

Im with the above poster on this... they've won the battle but not the war mate.

 

Truly shocking behaviour by the judiciary if you ask me... but, alas, not unheard of.

 

The appeal route is the correct one to go down of course and I wish you luck.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit of going on ;-)

[Hadituptohere]

BRW can you please pm me with the approved transcriber Im going to ring the court tomorrow whilst im in Bristol at work.

 

Hadituptohere

[DonkeyB]

Talk about a judge lottery. You got the bonus ball.

 

Please appeal, but legal help may be advisable for the next stage if you can in any way afford it.

[Hadituptohere]

Guys check out the conditional consent order that came with cobbetts letter this morning

 

 

 

 

The judge was blurting about having free bank accounts and ive just remembered it was a Royalties account and there was a monthly charge for this account, the terms and conditions sent were for a current account not a royalties account.....Bahhhhh

 

Hadituptohere

[Hadituptohere]

Hi DonkeyB

thanks for the advise but unfortunatley the funding isnt there for the legal advise

 

hadituptohere

[middenmess]

JonCris has posted a number of times about..

 

Wapedia - Wiki: Francovich principle

 

whereby,as I understand it, the State, in the form of the Judge in this case has a duty to look after the interests of the LIP and if they fail in this duty then the State is liable.

 

I'm sure that Joncris can explain better.

 

This from one of his posts...

 

Francovitch applies to the courts & their duties to the consumer under statute AND EU law. If they fail to implement the law then yes the government can find themselves in the dock....

[Hadituptohere]

Hi middlenmess

 

lets hope joncris can pop in and comment on this judgement, will need all the help I can get on this one....

 

hadituptohere

[middenmess]

Probably best to pm him and ask him to have a look here as it's unlikely that he'll come across it amongst the many dozens of threads on here.

 

 

Have a look at post #222 onwards on this thread..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/191784-shakespeare62-nastybank.html

[JonCris]

By allowing them to ambush you its clear the court did NOT provide you, a litigant in person, with a level playing field as required under CPR 1 .......... however its no good just arguing you didn't get a fair hearing you must prepare an argument that shows that had you been provided with their SA much sooner you would have been able to defend yourself .......... It goes without saying that by using the probabilities argument in such a vital area of CCA compliance the court has probably erred in law. Futhermore the courts should not rely on Common Law to override Statute

Edited December 10, 2009 by JonCris

[ieuanMr]

UHm....commisserations on your loss at court, I am going through something similar myself and I can imagine your sense of frustration and despair after putting in so much effort and to lose. Middenmess sent me your details and I spent an hour reading your posts. I imagine you have not lost any money on their costs and their costs must have been around £5000.00.

 

Did you ever get to arbitration, I did not see any notes on it or is it mediation?

 

I did write down a few notes from their argument and it is clear that they are experts. They know the system, they scrupulously observe the niceties throughtout, paying particular attention to extra time and the system allows that. Their argument (initial) was complex and yet very logical and I am afraid of offending you in saying that they pinpointed some clever legal arguments. You should have won because they did not provide the original documentation under the Data Protections Act 1998, they pointed this our very cleverly and said in effect that if you had applied under the terms of that Act you would have won. but then they very cleverly clouded the issues and said that they could not see any purpose in such a judgement even if they had failed to comply because you could not prove any damages because of it and secondly you had not bothered to apply, so in efect it was now too late for you to apply.

 

The first judge gave you the clue in his address to you. he made a big fuss about it to them and to you that they had no agreement. That is where you should have ammended your claim. I undertsand you are allowed to do that. I think that if you had made a one paragraph claim under the DPA you would have won, but you also had to prove there was damages and that should have been minimal in my opinion.

 

Please don't think I am being unkind or even uncaring I am thinking solely on the legal arguments. I admire your efforts and think you are extremly brave in taking them on, so much so I don't think I have the courage to do the same thing. But I have learned so much in reading your case notes and I think you have done the site a huge service by listing everything so carefully.

 

I am sure you would have won if only you had pleaded for a remedy such as an order undr section 7(9) DPA. I do think they went too far in suggesting to the jduge that you had no case, I feel that was very wrong because you had a case only you failed to apply for a remedy, you got caught up in the charges and the defaults. But then as the whole loan had been paid up it is case law that where there is no agreement then the case is in effect frozen. They cannot get any more money from you and you cannot claim money already paid off on the loan back, so both parties lose in one way and both parties win in some other way. i.e. the bank has had some money paid although not all and you don't have to pay the balance. In your case it didn't work out very well because you have paid off the whole loan. The bank's soliciters knew this of course, they are after all experts and they explioted their situation.

 

If you failed to take mediation that would have gone against you and if you acted presumptiously in taking out your N1 without giving them more time that also would have gone against you. The courts prefer to drag things out for around two years and exhaust every remedy before court action.

 

I think Middenmes is right, we do have to be extemly careul when going to court, if we foul up through lack of expereince it is to our cost. I shall now consider what action I am about to take in the light of yor unfortunate experiece and probably go down the Ombudsman route, although I could take legal advice before deciding.

 

I wish you well in your appeal but I would take legal advice if I were you if you can afford it.

 

regards and best wishes for the future

 

Ieuan

[egg-sterminator]

Hi middlenmess

 

lets hope joncris can pop in and comment on this judgement, will need all the help I can get on this one....

 

hadituptohere

Hi Hadit shame it wasn't judge geddes he is alright i've not been before him but know of him through work [GAS ENGINEER] First CCA 1974 88(1) "the DN must be in the prescibed terms" then "consumer credit[enforcement, default and termination notices ] regulations 1983 tell us what these prescibed terms are not the whim of a judge who wants to flirt with a barrister . as BRW says ambush . If you look at Vints thread i mentioned above lots of good stuff in there for this case . The DN is a primary part of comsumer law there to help protect people from mighty institutions and now hijacked by those same institutions as a club to beat us with With BRW and Vint and the others you have some great help so chin up . So back to work in sunny rossendale regards eggy .

[haggis1984]

Absoultely gutted for you. Subbing and hoping to see a suuccesful appeal

[overdone]

Yes, as a lit in person, they probably won't expect you to appeal. If you do they wont feel nearly as smug. Presupposition on the defaults docs etc sounds like "Balance of Probability" is being lazily abused.

[Hadituptohere]

Ive just received the Court order from my case, it was a Deputy District Judge that made the order and judgment on my case, unfortunatley I havent done anything about an appeal due to my 2 year old daughter falling ill with pnuemonia, think ill just have to put this one down experience and take it on the chin, ive also my mind on a a claim made against me by the b,stards at cabot and im sure im gonna need all my energy for that one. thankyou guys for all your help, info and support that ive received with this one......

 

Hadituptohere