Any Computer techi's who can identify a Blue Petered e mail?

[snlc]

Thanks for your help PGH 7447 - a few crossed wires me thinks, but I think I have enough to go on now - my lack of IT exposure shows.. thanks anyway.

 

 

Tom

[PGH7447]

No Probs sorry for the snappy response

 

Just a thought though, if it is a firm of solicitors then they would have an exchange server that would hold the audit trail of emails sent, that is until the exchange server does its pre-programmed cleanup of deleted / sent emails.

[snlc]

No Probs sorry for the snappy response

 

Just a thought though, if it is a firm of solicitors then they would have an exchange server that would hold the audit trail of emails sent, that is until the exchange server does its pre-programmed cleanup of deleted / sent emails.

 

 

Which would mean the email is not there anymore to be ' re printed' out ( as in ' the 'copy' they included in the witness statement?) This was allegedly sent March 08 so it is possible it might have been cleaned up and removed perhaps?

[Alphageek]

It is highly likely that the email would still be in the sender's Sent Items folder if they are using Exchange Server and Outlook.

 

If they are using Outlook, then the layout of the print they sent you is unusual to say the least.

 

Not impossible though, just unusual.

[snlc]

We'll find out soon enough and I'll let you know what they say

[Psycho Bob :o)]

Surely you 'd want the full header information viewable and forwarded to yourself and not a copy pasted hash up from this solicitor? Or are they unable to forward you the original for some reason?

[snlc]

Surely you 'd want the full header information viewable and forwarded to yourself and not a copy pasted hash up from this solicitor? Or are they unable to forward you the original for some reason?

 

 

Thanks Bob ( love the name! )

 

I received a piece of paper which alleged to be a 'copy' of an email they sent as part of their claim against me and they are taking this into court as part of their evidence. I don't believe they ever sent this because I never received it by email and it changes the dynamics of their case if it were true. I just think someone has botched up creating this (allegedly) trying to pass it off as a genuine email to cover their butts - I just needed to prove that by tapping into the wizzardry of this site and getting someone to say it's not possible to send an email from a system then print it off and send that as a paper copy without all the audit trails showing.

 

I made a copy myself by creating one in Word just to show how easy it was to replicate it. But my question is a bit like using a parking ticket as an example - , you can't get one out of the machine without it saying the date and the time and where you purchased it. If I asked you if I could get a parking ticket out of a machine after putting my money in without it printing all that data on you lot would be scratching your heads because we all know it's barely possible short of a miracle. I want to know is that the same with emails that's all.

 

Tom

Edited August 28, 2008 by snlc
added a bit

[Psycho Bob :o)]

hmm i'd say if it's 'evidence' then all the particulars should be clearly visible.. full header information showing it's origins, time/date stamp, relays to and final destination ( with IP's ) then and only then could it be said it was sent on such and such a date , to Mr/Mrs X's email account. if that information is not there in it's original unadulterated format, I can't see how it could be used as 'evidence'.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Psycho Bob :o)
spelling correction

[snlc]

hmm i'd say if it's 'evidence' then all the particulars should be clearly visible.. full header information showing it's origins, time/date stamp, relays to and final destination ( with IP's ) then and only then could it be said it was sent on such and such a date , to Mr/Mrs X's email account. if that information is not there in it's original unadulterated format, I can't see how it could be used as 'evidence'.

 

 

Thanks, I've got all the evidence I need, we'll see what the Judge has to say tomorrow in Coventry Court!

 

Tom

[citizenB]

Would they not have sent it with a request for a read receipt/acknowledgement to prove that it had been received ?.

[snlc]

Would they not have sent it with a request for a read receipt/acknowledgement to prove that it had been received ?.

 

 

Youre talking about a finance company in-house solicitors - give us a break

[citizenB]

Would they not have sent it with a request for a read receipt/acknowledgement to prove that it had been received ?.

 

Youre talking about a finance company in-house solicitors - give us a break

 

Ok.. so I was having a senior moment.. :lol:

[WebMaster]

hmm i'd say if it's 'evidence' then all the particulars should be clearly visible.. full header information showing it's origins, time/date stamp, relays to and final destination ( with IP's ) then and only then could it be said it was sent on such and such a date , to Mr/Mrs X's email account. if that information is not there in it's original unadulterated format, I can't see how it could be used as 'evidence'.

 

... and even if that information is there, it doesn't prove that it's genuine

[snlc]

When I brought this up in court the barrister for the claimant said I was suggesting a solicitor, with all the finery that provides in honesty and respectibility, was committing a fraud - Judge immediately though I was fantasizing and didn't wish to discuss that further. - explanations as to why I didn't receive the email transpired to be and found by the barrister conveniently finding it in the half an hour he had to read my skeleton arguement before the hearing, a letter missing from my email address on that email of theirs which I hadn't noticed. He pointed this out to the judge which appeared a reasonable explanation and that was it. I explained the significance of trying to include the email as evidnece at this stage, but I was then in the realms of accusing a solicitor of fraud which didn't wash. The fact I never received it didn't rate highly enough to continue discussing in the short time available. I explained the normal format as we have discussed here but because the judge was in a hurry said i don't want to go wasting time discussing the merits of an email - move on - Argument dead in the water.

 

It was not a good day in court either. Another story, but suffice to say as a Litigant in person and a Judge who didn't even read my Skeleton arguement as time didn't allow as he was running late and had a 'pressing appointment' ( he said so!),around lunchtime too - what chance did I have? - I even had costs awarded against me and I feel the justice system let me down badly. I felt the wrongdoer and believe me that couldn't be farther than the truth - I am no fool, knew exactly what I was doing, had sufficient evidence to win, but had the wrong judge on the day - it's not over as the case has been moved on to a circuit Judge in higher court, so the hearing was used as directions too - but I lost the strike out which I was aiming for, for all the wrong reasons with a judge who didn't understand the CCA on a cca issue.

 

So, thanks for your help with this email part. It gave me the information to actually tell the court which is the important thing...we now move to the next stage.

 

 

Cheers

Tom.

Edited August 30, 2008 by snlc

[Psycho Bob :o)]

because the judge was in a hurry said i don't want to go wasting time discussing the merits of an email - move on - Argument dead in the water.

 

!!!??? Are you saying this JUDGE chose to IGNORE evidence that may sway the case one way or the other? OMG!!! :? injustice or what!

[snlc]

!!!??? Are you saying this JUDGE chose to IGNORE evidence that may sway the case one way or the other? OMG!!! :? injustice or what!

 

Well you could put it like that although it's significance was discussed, but felt unworthy of further discussion. Claimants explanation of "This is a professional person (can't remeber the full wording) but with all the bells being a solicitor qualified at xxx? entrusted with xxx who has written under oath in his witness statement brings, couldn't possibly in all probabilities have commited fraud...yeah right...Against a LIP? balance of probability went professionals way.

 

I was more angry at the fact my witness statement was not read and I told the judge that, that in my opinion was the injustice and then to have costs piled on me when the only reason I took them to strike out was because they hadn't answered 11 letters in 6 months and preferred to take me to court for repo. It ain't over till the ft lady sings my friends, I haven't finished with them yet.

[make them aktiv runners]

When I brought this up in court the barrister for the claimant said I was suggesting a solicitor, with all the finery that provides in honesty and respectibility, was committing a fraud - Judge immediately though I was fantasizing and didn't wish to discuss that further. - explanations as to why I didn't receive the email transpired to be and found by the barrister conveniently finding it in the half an hour he had to read my skeleton arguement before the hearing, a letter missing from my email address on that email of theirs which I hadn't noticed. He pointed this out to the judge which appeared a reasonable explanation and that was it. I explained the significance of trying to include the email as evidnece at this stage, but I was then in the realms of accusing a solicitor of fraud which didn't wash. The fact I never received it didn't rate highly enough to continue discussing in the short time available.

 

The judge was not technically minded either and the fraud scenario was more complex grounds then you actually needed. That piece of paper is now your best friend. The fact that they mistyped your email address proves you could not have received it!!!!! The mistyping means one of 2 things, either whoever sent it had a email back from their service provider stating the message was undeliverable, or it was a valid email address of someone else who has now received private data about you.

[Alphageek]

Send an email to the mistyped email address and see if it bounces back. Make it polite and ask the person who may receive it to reply back to you.

 

If you're bob21@bt.com and they mistyped bob2@bt.com (for example), then bob2 might exist.

 

If you're lucky, you'll get a bounce and you'll know they will have gotten one as well.