Thames Credit

[afta05]

Thanks for advice both - I have sent the CCA (£1) three weeks ago and full SAR (£10) couple of days ago. Nothing of any substance has been received except from Roxburghe who have sent the SAR info within 2 days but ignored the CCA. I will now wait and start counting the further month as advised. The CCAs have been sent to Roxburghe, Thames, Moorcroft, Lowell and Barclaycard. SARs to all of them except Barclaycard.

[afta05]

Result! Letter from Lowell this morning.

We refer to your recent request for a copy of the original agreement in respect of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

After liaising with our client in an effort to obtain this document we have been advised that it is no longer available. Under the circumstances we have closed our files in relation to this account which has now been returned to our client. We can confirm that no further contact will be made by us regarding this account.

 

Thanks everyone for their help; one down 4 to go. I will be adding to my donation as a mark of thanks. Brilliant!

Edited July 19, 2008 by afta05

[foolishgirl]

Nice one afta.

 

Just a small caveat though - Lowells may return the file to OC who might try to sell it on to another DCA to pursue. However you now have conf. from Lowells that OC does not have the the docs.

 

Did the OC mark your credit ref. with a default? If so you may wish to try to get this removed by pursuing the OC - no CCA, therefore no default, no contract & no default applicable.

[Dipply75]

Hi Afta, ace result! How good does that feel lol.

 

Foolishgirl has a good point, well worth checking and chasing about the defaults. In fact I think I'll be doing the same.....foolishgirl, do you know of a good template for starting that off?

[afta05]

I'm not so concerned about my credit reference status - its shot to pieces anyway with a couple of CCJs and about 11 other defaults originally, although some have been paid off. I will concentrate on clearing up the remaining debt and avoid anything that needs a credit reference.

[foolishgirl]

Probably wise decision afta, the default will drop off after 6 years anyway.

 

I've seen a letter somewhere re. starting the process Dipply, not gone that route myself yet although it looks as though I may soon. I'll look for it & post on this thread when I find it if afta doesn't mind?

[afta05]

Go ahead foolishgirl - you have been a great help already and this thread has some way to go!

[afta05]

Received the SAR reply from Lowell which consisted of copies of their letters to me, summaries of my letters to them and masses of paper connected with land registry searches on my house. There was no statement of account but there was a balance listed on each page of the reply. As they have now acknowledged that they have no CCA and have sent the account back to OC, I'll leave it.

Can anyone advise if I would be likely to be able to make a settlement offer to the recipient of a CCJ. I owe about £1500 on one and the court ordered that I pay less than a fiver a month. Do these people accept offers and if so what might they accept to settle?

[foolishgirl]

You can always make a settlement offer, even with a creditor that has CCJ rights etc. However they may not give you much 'discount' as they know they have the legal clout to ultimately demand full payment - even if if does take until the next century at £5.00 per month!!

 

I'd offer as little as you think you can get away with to start off, not least 'cos you don't want to give the impression you've suddenly won the lottery. Bear in mind that most debts are sold on at between 1-10% of the sum owed so anything above that & the DCA is making a profit. If the debt is still with the OC, you should expect to pay more. If they don't bite on the first taste, ask them how much they would require & bargain it out from there.

 

I've found that sometimes it pays to offer a small but reasonable amount (which they will probably refuse), say that it's all you can afford right now, go on paying the £5.00 for a bit & a few months later offer a similar but slightly larger amount. They can always say 'no'. You're no worse off & you might be lucky & get it settled for a fraction of the balance. But it's your game...

 

However be sure to mark your letter 'Without Prejudice' & don't forget to make it a condition of any offer that it is 'full & final', that your credit file will be marked 'satisfied' & that the court will be informed that the CCJ has been fulfilled. You should, if possible, make the payment thro' a third party. You will find letter templates in the library.

[afta05]

Thanks once again foolishgirl. I will send them a letter and see how we go.

[afta05]

Have received a letter from Moorcroft in response to my SAR. They ask for information as proof of my identity eg copy of driving licence, rent book, utility bill etc. They say they include an SAE but did not. When I send them this stuff they say they will give my request their immediate attention.

 

My inclination is to do nothing. They have still not come up with a copy CCA agreement and are now trying to delay action on a legitimate SAR. Am I right to ignore this letter?

[foolishgirl]

They are entitled to ask for proof of ID under Data Protection Act 1998. IMO, I agree, they are using this as a delaying tactic - after all they have been writing to you at your address for some time sending personal info. so this in itself would be a breach of DPA if they were doubtful as to your ID.

 

However in a practical world, it may be easier to get what you want by complying. BUT do NOT send them originals of anything of value (eg. passport, d. licence) or anything incl. copies, with your signature on - utility bill is fine in MO but don't think bank statement or similar is appropriate.

Edited July 26, 2008 by foolishgirl
omission

[afta05]

Right, I'll send them a copy of my latest gas bill with account numbers and amounts blanked out. I don't want to start entering into correspondence with these people who I think are having trouble coming up with CCA agreements. Moorcroft's response remember was to ask me to let them know what it was I was going to present as evidence in court! I sent them a dispute letter after the 12+2 days and have heard nothing further yet.

[foolishgirl]

If they can't produce a CCA, you may not hear anything more!

 

However just a note afta, have Moorcroft actually been assigned the debt from OC or are they just acting as debt collector for OC? And what were you hoping to get as a result of your SAR?

If you were wanting all the info that Moorcroft hold on you, including payments made to them, that's OK but if you were wanting statements etc. from OC with a view to reclaiming charges, you would probably be better off sending the SAR to OC. (They have to retain all info. for 6 years from close of account) Moorcroft will not necessarily have the statements etc. & they have no legal responsibility to pass that request on to the OC as they do with a CCA request.

You may be lucky & Moorcroft will send you full accounts history with both them & OC but unfortunately sometimes you have to send 2 x SAR to both DCA & OC to get the full picture.

[afta05]

Roxburghe have now replied to the CCA letter saying that further collection activity has been suspended whilst they take their clients further instructions.

[foolishgirl]

If they can't produce a CCA, you may not hear anything more!

 

 

Ditto for Roxburghe...

 

Another one off your tail - at least for the time being

[afta05]

You are being such a help foolishgirl - I'm really grateful and you're keeping me sane! Although I'm still worried about being chased for debt, 2 of the 4 seem not to hold agreements that they can enforce and the other 2 are keeping strangely quiet. I also sent a CCA to Barclaycard but have heard nothing. I have stopped payments to all of them.

 

I sent an offer to settle a CCJ to solicitors Geoffrey Parker Bourne who are collecting but they have so far ignored me.

[foolishgirl]

Are GP Bourne collecting on behalf of OC? If so, you may find you might they will be slow in response as they have to go back to OC to submit offer.

If you don't get a response in a reasonable time, you could try writing direct to OC stating that you have made offer to GPB etc. & asking for a response.

 

When did you send CCA to BC? They have 12+2 days to respond after which you can send reminder that they have to produce within 30days (no longer an offence though). If they still continue to chase you for debt you can now report it to OFT/TS for legal action (new Regs this year - CPUTR 2008)

[afta05]

Thanks again for your advice. The 12+2 for BC is not up yet so I'll wait. I may get a letter when they don't receive a payment this month, then I can remind them. Thanks too for the tip that it is no longer an offence if they don't produce documents after 30 days.

 

I assume GP Bourne are collecting CCJ for OC who are Capital One Bank (Europe) Ltd.

[foolishgirl]

No surprise there then at lack of response. Put an extra r in their name (Cap1) & you have it! Think you'll be lucky if you hear anything at all

Unfortunately as they have a CCJ, you're options are limited - you just have to keep paying & keep reminding them of your offer.

[afta05]

New letter from Moorcroft. This time they say thank you for my CCA request but as they are unable to provide a copy they have contacted OC who have confirmed that to obtain a copy of the agreement I must put my request in writing to them. Moorcroft returned the £1 postal order so that I can send it to OC.

I had thought that the DCA had to supply the CCA whether or not they were the original creditor. If this is so, I need do nothing and wait until the month is up and send them a letter to say that the debt is unenforceable? What do you advise?

Edited August 3, 2008 by afta05
Addition

[foolishgirl]

Do you know if Moorcroft are just acting as debt collectors on this debt or have they bought it? i.e. did you ever receive a Notice of Assignment?

If they have bought the debt they have to supply the CCA.

 

My first thought is that Moorcroft are using delaying tactics & that there is probably no CCA available at all. After all they admit they have been in contact with OC so if there was a CCA why not forward your £1.00 to OC & get them to post it out to you? That's the standard practice.

 

So you now have a choice:

1. You can apply to OC for the CCA & in the meantime send Moorcroft letter on the lines of eg below (amend to suit) or

2. There is now provision under the new CPTUR 2008 to report Moorcroft's non-compliance to TS & insist they take action on it. It's the law! However this may take longer to get the result you want - supply of CCA. If you are going this route (& even if you're not it makes interesting reading), suggest you read Babybear's thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/147392-cca-dcas-unfair-commercial.html

 

It's quite long but does explain things well.

 

If you choose (1) Moorcroft need to be reminded of their duties under the law & the fact that the account is still in dispute so a letter along the following lines:

 

Acc. No: xxxx

 

In my letter dated the xxxx , I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents whether you are the original creditor or not as defined under Section 189 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

“creditor” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law'

 

You should also be aware of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, your obligations under it & the recent OFT guidance to enforecment officers that provides a legal argument to support their view that DCAs are 'creditors' for the purposes of Section 77 & 78 of the CCA 1974.

 

Your refusal to fulfil my request for an executed copy of my credit agreement in relation to this account is therefore unlawful & Trading Standards have a legal duty under the above regulations to take action, usually under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002, to ensure you comply with my request when I report this matter to them.

 

In the meantime, I would remind you that your failure to supply a copy of this agreement ensures that this account remains in serious dispute.

You are therfore not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

 

Yours

 

[afta05]

This debt that Moorcroft are (were) collecting goes back a long way - to around 2000. All correspondence I got then was sent to the debt management company that was helping me in those days (they later went bust and left me in the lurch!) I don't know if Moorcroft own the debt or are collecting on Mint's behalf - they certainly want me to think that by the wording of their letters.

[foolishgirl]

Did you send a SARs to Moorcroft? If not, I think I would add that to your response to them, requesting specifically a detailed set of payments made to your account & a copy of any Notice of Assignment (ask them to confirm whether it is equitable or absolute - means have they got all rights to the debt or not). You might then have a better idea of situation.

[afta05]

Thanks again foolishgirl, you are a great help and take a lot of the worry away that I feel when dealing with these people.

 

I have already sent SARs to Moorcroft. They asked me to provide evidence of identity if you remember and I sent them a copy of my gas bill. I guess I should just wait and let them think up their next move. As I see it, they have up to 40 days to respond to the SARs and they have not been able to provide a CCA; their month will soon be up and the debt will be unenforceable so need I do anything at all at this stage?