1st plus refund & drop in monthly payments

[fedupwithmuppets]

Hi all, Just wondered if someone can shed some light on this for me...

2 years ago we took out a home improvement loan with first plus along with ppi. I'm sure we weren't missold it having read the threads, however, i have just written to them to cancel it as i wanted to reduce the monthly payments we were having to pay. Having looked at the orginal loan paper work it states how much the loan repayments are and how much the ppi repayments are which was £158 per month. It also says that ppi is added to the loan amount over the period of the loan and there is a figure amounting to 33k plus for the cost of ppi. We never noticed that at the time!!! My questions are:

are we still paying £158 per month towards to ppi as they have written back saying the our monthly payments will only be reduced by something like £24

 

Also they have offered us a refund of just over £2k which they have said will be deducted off the amount of the loan. The paper work does state those words but i would like to fight this if possible therefore does anyone know if this is possible?

 

What should i do as i don't think the monthly amount is right and i object to having it deducted off the loan amount as it makes so little difference...although the reason may be is that we got 2 months behind with the repayments and they added them onto the end of the loan so we weren't in arrears so that may be why...perhaps i'm just being greedy???

 

any help and advice much appreciated

[fedupwithmuppets]

sorry to bump this but i really need some advice asap if possible don't have much time to resond to them

[Braveheart Bear]

hello Fedup.

 

Sounds to me like they have given you a small rebate of the PPI premiums, what they are not doing is taking any account of the interest which would have been added to the loan for the PPI. Typical of FP.

 

Is the amount of the rebate a pro rota amount ? ei 3/5 of the amount of the ppi itself ? at best i think this is all you can hope for, they wont take account of the huge amount of interest the insurance added to the loan. Of course Im not an expert, just got my own case going with FirstPlus. Hopefully Im wrong and someone will be able to give you some more advice. Good luck

 

BHB

[fedupwithmuppets]

cheers braveheart...what do you think about the drop in monthly payments it doesn't seem quite right to me as its completely different to what's on the form...it basically means that the loan itself will now be costing me £842 whereas when it started it was £750 something with the ppi at £158 a month...surely that can't be right...any ideas?

[fedupwithmuppets]

also the offer is not pro rata i'm not sure how they worked it out

[fedupwithmuppets]

Should i send them a SAR's request?

[Braveheart Bear]

Can you show the actual figures ?

 

What was the amount of the PPI. If you were paying £158 then assuming the policy was the standard 5 year, then the total would be £9480 then plus interest? Then assuming you are 2 years in, you want 3/5 of that total back, £5688.

 

If it isnt pro rota then you could try complaining and asking for a figure that might actually be fair ( dont hold your breath tho).

 

BHB

[fedupwithmuppets]

Cheers BH, the figures on the original form are as follows:

cash loan monthly repayments: 645.93

PPI "" "" "" 158.19

Total £804.12

There is a bit underneath that says interest rate 9.52% and the cash price for ppi is £15,134.82

 

The letter i got today is offering £2390.07.

 

I am currently paying £871.81 a month and the payments will only go down to £844.28...this is the bit i don't understand....i'm not too fussed about the amount of refund as i don't think i would get anymore and it will delay things substantially but the amount of monthly payments is the reason i cancelled the ppi as i need to reduce our monthly outgoings, so how have they worked that out....anyone any ideas???

 

Should i send them a S.A.R s request will this tell me more?

cheers for your help on here

[Demtootief]

Hi Feud,

 

You should not be accepting this payment from Firstplus under any circumstances, as they are seeing your desperation and CAPITALISING on it - which is so unfair!!!

 

Without knowing all the details of the Loan - I would say that you need to be asking for the whole of the Loan insurance plus the interest, plus the premiums you have paid for the 2 or 3 years (however long you have had the loan for). Along with this, you should be asking for the interest on the full figure of these amounts.

 

The fact that you still have the Loan active with Fistplus should work well in your favour, as it did for me.

 

Hope this helps.

[Bog]

The FSA have stated that partial refunds are un-fair!

 

I agree with Braveheart, SAR them and the go for the full PPI (+ Interest) claim.

 

I think you will find you DO have a very good case for mis-selling.

[littleton]

Hi Fedup,

Our case is different to yours as our complaint is going back to 2003, but if you do your homework and read some of the other threads you may find a way through, such as did they advise you that you could take PPI out yourself with a different company.

If that is the case you may have a start to building a case on mis-selling.

However this is only my opinion but someone else may have another view which may help. DO NOT get or feel pushed into making rash decisions I know it is hard when your under pressure but do your research.

[fedupwithmuppets]

thanks for the reply guys and i'm not sure if they actually explained whether we could get ppi from somewhere else as it seems so long ago now. I've been reading loads of threads and info and stuff then i get all confused and not sure how it applies to me. My main concern currently is the drop in monthly payments can someone explain that to me why it said on the form £158 for ppi and now it will is only about £24 a month....it just doesn't seem right to me and thoughts anyone?

[Sparklez30]

If you look through this thread the first post gives a list of reasons for mis-selling see if any apply to you!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/61081-ppi-some-notes-claimants.html

 

This mis-selling is truly rife so if any of the following apply you have a valid complaint (info listed below is taken from the thread above and is therefore thanks to Reidnet and Todge ) :-

 

1 You were not in work or self employed at the time of sale

 

2 You were told that you had to take the PPI out at the same time as the loan or not at all

 

3 You were not asked whether you had any other insurance which would cover the loan

 

4 You were not told you could buy PPI elsewhere to cover the loan

 

5 You were sold a policy which had age restrictions which you fell outside of

 

6 You were led to believe that Payment Protection Insurance was compulsory

 

7 You were told that you would stand more chance of getting the loan if you took the Payment Protection Insurance

 

8 It was not explained to you that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect you

 

9 You were pressured into buying the PPI

 

10 You paid upfront for the PPI but it was not explained that there were some PPI policies where you could pay monthly

 

11 Your PPI was an upfront premium and you repaid the loan early and received no refund

 

12 You increased your loan and the PPI was increased automatically

 

13 The Terms & Conditions of the small print were not fully explained to you

Edited June 5, 2008 by Sparklez30

[fedupwithmuppets]

Cheers for that its nice and simple...i do now think we have a claim for misselling so is the first thing to do is to ask for a S.A.R. or is it to cancel the policy first?

If you look through this thread the first post gives a list of reasons for mis-selling see if any apply to you!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/61081-ppi-some-notes-claimants.html

 

This mis-selling is truly rife so if any of the following apply you have a valid complaint (info listed below is taken from the thread above and is therefore thanks to Reidnet and Todge ) :-

 

1 You were not in work or self employed at the time of sale

 

2 You were told that you had to take the PPI out at the same time as the loan or not at all

 

3 You were not asked whether you had any other insurance which would cover the loan

 

4 You were not told you could buy PPI elsewhere to cover the loan

 

5 You were sold a policy which had age restrictions which you fell outside of

 

6 You were led to believe that Payment Protection Insurance was compulsory

 

7 You were told that you would stand more chance of getting the loan if you took the Payment Protection Insurance

 

8 It was not explained to you that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect you

 

9 You were pressured into buying the PPI

 

10 You paid upfront for the PPI but it was not explained that there were some PPI policies where you could pay monthly

 

11 Your PPI was an upfront premium and you repaid the loan early and received no refund

 

12 You increased your loan and the PPI was increased automatically

 

13 The Terms & Conditions of the small print were not fully explained to you

[littleton]

It sounds to me like they are still charging you for the PPI less the interest ? Which is I think they were trying to get me to accept as a settlement but obviuosly we have refused and gone to the FOS with our claim for mis-selling.

My advice now is do not cancel because if you do and you go to the FOS they may say you have already settled and they may not be able to help, as they negotiate on your behalf.

[fedupwithmuppets]

Hi littleton thanks for that, i'll write to them and say no....i know i'm being cheeky but you don't have a copy of the letter that you sent to them do you that i could amend as i'm a bit numb when it comes to writing letters as i get too personal. Should i enclose a request for a S.A.R with the letter also? Another question.....when you settle are they going to deduct it off you're loan or will they send you a check?

[Bog]

These are what I used.....

 

First getting your info:

 

Data Protection Officer

FIRSTPLUS Financial Group Plc

The Avenue Business Park

Pentwyn

Cardiff

CF23 8FF

 

17th May 2008

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

 

Re: Account No. xxxxxxxx

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to the above account.

 

In accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request, I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organisation:

 

- A complete list of transactions and charges relating to my history with your organization, including payment protection insurance and other products. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable.

 

- Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

- Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.

 

- Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

 

- Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROCECTION.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

xxxx xxxx

 

 

 

 

And then requesting the refund.... (Amend according to your circumstances)

 

 

 

FIRSTPLUS Financial Group Plc

The Avenue Business Park

Pentwyn

Cardiff

CF23 8FF

 

 

27th May 2008

 

 

 

Formal Complaint – Request for Payment Protection Insurance Refund

 

Re: Account xxxxxx

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I have recently made a FULL Data Protection Act 1998 subject access request for all my statements, correspondence and telephone transcripts/recordings that you hold on file in respect of the above account.

 

Having listened to the recordings of my conversations with your sales advisors during my loan applications, and the evidence within the information supplied by you in response to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request and following the recent OFT and FSA investigations, I now realise, that you mis-sold me payment protection insurance on two occasions, which I did not want and did not need.

 

During both applications, your adviser does not clearly explain that this was a Single Premium Policy and although only lasting for five years, I would be paying for it and interest on it throughout the lifetime of the loan at the loan APR. Equally a lot of emphasis was put on the refund of premium offer at the end of the five years, but you failed to highlight the true cost of the policy.

 

Very little attempt was made to ascertain if the insurance was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed if I really needed it at all. It was not explained to me that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect my eligibility.

 

It was not stated at any point during the setting up of the 2nd loan that the PPI from the 1st loan was added to that loan. I was never given a breakdown of what was loan amount and PPI separately when it was added, and therefore had no idea that any PPI was included or how much. There was never any mention of this in any conversations or paperwork. (Add this if you have more than one loan with FP)

 

It was never made clear that the rebate you would receive if you cancelled early was not fairly proportionate. Also as these were sold to me as cash back policies and that is how I believed they worked. I would never have taken the PPI on either loan if I thought I could lose such a large amount of money.

 

Your adviser used very mis-leading sales techniques and the tape you sent in my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) clearly shows the adviser pressured me into taking the PPI. At one point they implied that if I did not take the PPI when I topped up the loan, the settlement figure for the old loan would be higher.

 

Your responsibilities

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened our account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

 

What I require

 

I am requesting a full refund of all premiums, and subsequent interest on these payments, that I have paid to date. As I believe I have been deprived of this money I also expect contractual interest.

 

I have calculated the contractual interest at 8.59% APR for agreement xxxxx and at 9.2% APR for agreement xxxxxx, both of which you applied to the relevant loan at the time of inception, reflecting the principal of mutuality and reciprocity.

 

(Add a breakdown of you figures here - once you get your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) back, I can help you with this.)

 

The above figures are based on the data you have previously supplied me, and I therefore now require you to refund me a total of £xxxxx.xx

 

If you feel that my figures are in-correct please revise and provide a detailed breakdown of your calculations.

 

 

My targets to resolve this matter

 

As the FSA has now stated ‘no refund’ terms are considered unfair, I would like my refund request to be met in full.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

If I do not receive a favourable response from you I will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman and indeed through the courts. I must advise you I have taken legal and financial advice on this matter.

 

I will give you 7 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my refund request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

xxxx xxxx

 

[Sparklez30]

Also that thread I linked has lots of info that will help you all in the first post including template letters (you just need to scroll down a bit). Have a read through as it helps alot to understand when reclaiming these things

 

Good Luck and let us know how you get on

[littleton]

We have followed a set format of letters you can download off martins money, the first one outlines your reason for complaint and claim the second re-iterates your claim if you do not get a favourable reply. The third is not a letter it is downloaded form from the FOS.

However for the first letter martin gives you various options which may match your claim for mis-selling so you just use the one(s) that you need.

At the time we started our claim we did not know about the SAR but I do not think after reading other threads that there would be one going back to 2003. But what we do know is that youwill not get it from Cardiff, as in another thread someone found out you have to write to an adress in London which we did have written down but can't find.

Edited June 6, 2008 by littleton

[Braveheart Bear]

We got our SAR from First Plus after writing to the Cardiff address, and when it came back it included all our information, right back to the commencement of our first loan taken out in November 2000. It all came back very quickly too.

[Bog]

I aggree write to the Cardiff address, they will pass it on to the relevant dept/office.

 

I too got my SAR back very quickly and with least amount of fuss.

[marshallka]

Braveheart, i have read some of your claim with Firstplus and i too have tried for the ppi and the rule 78. Our loan was jan 2000 and outside jurisdiction with the FOS. I wondered how you were getting on. I have now sent another claim to the FOS about the unfair settlement we received from Firstplus. They have yet to reply as they have not looked at it. I received a refund of £90 of my policy which cost £4163 over 160 months and we settled in just over 3 years. I hope you win with them. They are loan sharks really and above the law it seems.

[Braveheart Bear]

Still ongoing, but the longer it takes the more determined I get. Bring it on !!!

 

When you get your SAR paperwork back, make sure you check through it. They missed loads of pages and letters from ours.

[marshallka]

I wrote back after receiving my SAR and got a few more bits. I sorted their papers out and some looked to be sort of numerical but when i asked about the missing ones they said "they simply do not exist". How can you prove what is missing. Its your word against theirs isn't it.

[alanalana]

Hello braveheart bear and marshallka,

 

I wrote back after receiving my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and got a few more bits. I sorted their papers out and some looked to be sort of numerical but when i asked about the missing ones they said "they simply do not exist". How can you prove what is missing. Its your word against theirs isn't it.

 

This caught my eye. If they admit they do not exist then when it comes to crunch time in Court they obviously cannot produce them in the bundle as they do not exist:rolleyes: If they do try to produce them then you produce the letter you have received from them to say they cannot be admitted as documentary evidence as they do not exist ( SEE THIS LETTER ).

 

just a thought

aa