HFO claimform - old Morgan Stanley Card Debt **WON**

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x20

 

The date on the NOA was dated 22nd May.

[surfaceagentx20]

OK BA. Very interesting and better still.

 

In other words the statement of truth on the POC was a false statement of truth!

 

x20

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Also I have 2 NOA,s will post tomorrow.with dates.

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NOA,s

 

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p350/brokenarrow_08/Morganstanley1-2-1.jpg

 

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p350/brokenarrow_08/Morganstanley2-1-1.jpg

Edited November 5, 2008 by broken arrow

[Rhia]

Surely these are invalid? HFO Capital is the Cayman Islands offshoot. They cannot give this company and then give a different company (which HFO Services is). Need Surfaceagent on this one I think.

[DonkeyB]

This is where the assignment agreement between HFO Capital and HFO Services amazingly appears...

[surfaceagentx20]

Both NoAs posted above are notices post-dating the commencement of proceedings and therefore where the Particulars of Claim state and are verified as such that notice of assignment was given prior to the comencement of proceedings, the statement is untrue.

 

Further, the delivery of a NoA is a pre-requisite for the bringing of proceeding by the assignee. The debtor has no liability to the assignee until the debtor has notice of the assignment.

 

It seems to me an assignee may be based any where in the world.

 

Do you wish to go ahead with an appeal?

 

x20

[pt2537]

Both NoAs posted above are notices post-dating the commencement of proceedings and therefore where the Particulars of Claim state and are verified as such that notice of assignment was given prior to the comencement of proceedings, the statement is untrue.

 

Further, the delivery of a NoA is a pre-requisite for the bringing of proceeding by the assignee. The debtor has no liability to the assignee until the debtor has notice of the assignment.

 

It seems to me an assignee may be based any where in the world.

 

Do you wish to go ahead with an appeal?

 

x20

Furthermore,id be interested in what the actual deed provides as it is likely that if they have taken little care with the notices then you may find more defects in the deed,

 

had the same sort of thing before District Judge Parker in Reading CC with Lowell Group

[broken arrow]

Both NoAs posted above are notices post-dating the commencement of proceedings and therefore where the Particulars of Claim state and are verified as such that notice of assignment was given prior to the comencement of proceedings, the statement is untrue.

 

Further, the delivery of a NoA is a pre-requisite for the bringing of proceeding by the assignee. The debtor has no liability to the assignee until the debtor has notice of the assignment.

 

It seems to me an assignee may be based any where in the world.

 

Do you wish to go ahead with an appeal?

 

x20

 

Yes,

 

But I am going to need a lot of help.

 

Broken arrow

[DonkeyB]

Right behind you, BA!

[broken arrow]

Bump

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Copy of sales agreement submitted with their witness statement.

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p350/brokenarrow_08/hfo3.jpg

[Rhia]

Well perhaps I am missing something but this is OBVIOUSLY a sales agreement between MS London and HFO Cayman Islands - ie.offshore. As a number of CAGers had MBNA sales agreements sold to Cabot offshore in Ireland and Cabot dropped all the ones I am aware of as they were incorrectly assigned the same must surely apply to these.

It's a way of avoiding tax on the sales and HM Customs and Excise would be interested to know about this. They fined MBNA megabucks for avoiding VAT by securitisng offshore. It went all the way to the House of Lords and they ruled against MBNA. I really can't see that this is any different - can we have an expert please???

[DonkeyB]

Good point. HFO, as I mentioned earlier, normally come up with a second document, an agreement between HFO Capital and HFO Services where the account is assigned to HFO Services. As HFO Services is UK-based, would this attract any form of tax? It would be nice to unravel their labyrinthine methods.

[Rhia]

I know sweet FA about such things but logically if they assign/sell offshore they avoid UK taxes. If they reassign back to the UK surely this brings them back into UK taxes. HM C&E would really be the ones to unravel this.

[broken arrow]

Both NoAs posted above are notices post-dating the commencement of proceedings and therefore where the Particulars of Claim state and are verified as such that notice of assignment was given prior to the comencement of proceedings, the statement is untrue.

 

Further, the delivery of a NoA is a pre-requisite for the bringing of proceeding by the assignee. The debtor has no liability to the assignee until the debtor has notice of the assignment.

 

It seems to me an assignee may be based any where in the world.

 

Do you wish to go ahead with an appeal?

 

x20

 

I will be filling in and posting the appeal form tomorrow!

[DonkeyB]

BA, is it worth passing your appeal form by x20 first? Want to make sure you get this resurrected - no room for error! Good news.

[broken arrow]

I have started filling in the N161 form help needed with following sections.

need to get this one spot on.

 

Section 2 - should I tick case managment or final decision or both.

 

Section 5 - order I am appealing,I guess this is no2 That my defence was struck out.

 

Section 5 - should I request stay of execution.

 

Section 6 - Tick box for skeleton argument to follow within 14 days.

 

Section 7 - Set aside, vary or order new trial.

 

Section 8 - Other applications, part A I apply for stay of execution because?

 

Section 9 - Evidence in support ?

 

Thanks in anticipation

 

BA

[surfaceagentx20]

BA,

Answers:

 

Section 2

'Case Management'

 

Section 5

Put:

 

The Defendant wishes to appeal the entirety of the order of Deputy District Judge Whitfield made 18 September 2008 namely (then set out paragraphs 1 to 5 inclusive of the order).

 

If you apply for a stay of execution it will involve you in a further fee. You may think the better course would be to react to any enforcement action which may be taken.

 

Section 6

Correct and say the skeleton will follow within 14 days

 

Section 7

'Set Aside'

 

Section 8

'See answer to Section 5 above

 

Section 9

Evidence will comprise the 2 NoAs and may be more. What further evidence is relied upon very much depends on what you say in your grounds of appeal. Any chance of a peep at the grounds and also grounds for an extnesion of time?

 

x20

[broken arrow]

Cheers x20, very much appreciated.

 

BA

[broken arrow]

All filled in and in the post, thanx again x20, could not have done it without you, fingers crossed and will keep you all informed.

 

x20 the grounds for extension was same as HFO use , getting information from Morgan Stanley ( but my documents are genuine).

 

Grounds for appeal:

 

Post dated NOA

NOA not from OC as they state

No default notice

No default notice produced as evidence

Unenforceable credit agreement

 

Will need help with skeleton arguement (hopefully).

 

Thanx for everyones support

 

Broken arrow

[broken arrow]

UPDATE

 

looks like the appeal has been accepted, as the court require a further £75 payment due to the late application to proceed.

 

Just need to skeleton argument in.

[Docman]

Hi BA

 

Go for it! I'm sure we can all come up with a good skeleton argument.

 

As to HFO, I've been having a look at HFO accounts. HFO Services Ltd is trading at a GROSS LOSS ie it is buying stuff at more than they can get rid of them for. By then charging their expenses (court fees etc) they create a net loss and a tax 'allowance' that can be set off against other group companies tax liabilities.

 

In the year to 31 December 2007, HFO Services 'lost' over £3 Million and was insolvent to the tune of nearly FIVE MILLION QUID!! This created a 'tax loss' of around £900,000. I'm not a tax expert but something smells. Perhaps HMRC should have a look at HFO and its operation.

[Rhia]

Ho! Ho! (make it 3 Hos! as it's Christmas). Very good research here. They would call it "tax efficiencies". Cynics may say "[problem]". I couldn't possibly comment.

 

Good news re the appeal Broken Arrow. I know Surface Agent and Pt will be your guiding stars for this.

[broken arrow]

Will be doing the skeleton argument over the weekend, is there anything which I should/should not include.

 

I think practice direction 52 deals with this.

 

x20 ,PT and others any help would be appreciated.