recieved cca from thames credit

[tetley75]

Hi, I'm helping a relative with his cca requests, he eventually recieved these from thames credit, who are acting on behalf of Halifax bank of scotland. He had both a loan and credit card and this cca seems to be for both. Could you please have a look and let me know if this is enforceable for either the loan of credit card.

 

Image of thames credit cca - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

thamescreditcca2.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Thanks for helping.

[Pinky69]

The left hand side relates to a loan - the right hand side relates to a keycard account with an overdraft. All documents mentioned in the loan must be submitted with the credit agreement and the "Uses of Data" information is misssing - it is mentioned in the document as a separate leaflet.

 

The calculations are incorrect. If I am correct in reading that the APR is 7.8%, then 60 repayments on £6909 is £138.55. The leeway allowed is 1%, which is £1.40. This would allow them to miscalculate to £139.95 - wrong calculations render the agreement invalid. I would argue with them that the agreement they sent you is invalid because the calculations are wrong. You can check the figures yourself on an APR calculator.

[tetley75]

Thanks pinky. what is a key card account, they also sent statement which make it look like a credit card, my relative also says its a credit card.

[Pinky69]

It says a keycard will be issued - that's simply a card that can be used at an ATM - and it says the account will have an overdraft limit - there is no mention of a credit card and the conditions sent are for a loan, not a credit card. Also, they are unlikely to amalgamate loan and credit card agreements. Did your relative have to open an account so they could pay the loan into it?

[tetley75]

Hi, not too sure about him having an account but i'll find out. The account held by thames is definately a credit card, and this is the acount we cca'd if they've provided a cca for a loan and keycard account then it's a different account altogether. Thank you for spotting this mate.

[Pinky69]

Have been checking on the status of a Preference Account and it seems to be a bank account with an overdraft facility operated with a keycard - that isn't a credit card account and nowhere on the document does it mention credit card. People who have had correspondence with the BOS have been told by the BOS that it is a bank account.

[tetley75]

This is all very strange, we rang up the bank today and they informed him it is a credit card that he had with them, his statements apear to back this up, requesting minimal amounts and stating available credit etc, I've posted one up below.

 

Image of statement - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Looking at the agrements, neither have a date under my relatives signiture and the credit card account numbers have been writain by hand at the top of the form, in two different hand writtings. His account no changes half way through the statements for some reason too. To be completely honest i'm quite confused by this and he got his financies in such a mess that he doesn't really seem to know how many accounts or loans he's had.

[Pinky69]

What you have posted is, as you say. a statement and it refers to the preference account - but it has no account number on it - and is your relative's address on it? Credit agreements must have a credit limit and an APR together with the signatures of the debtor and creditor in the same section as the limit and Apr, and they must send copies of the Terms and Conditions as they were at the time of the agreement plus statements. It sounds as if the agreements you have may not be valid - is it possible for you to post them?

[tetley75]

Hi mate, the statements did have the account no and my relatives name and address but I errased them before posting them. The only agrements that they sent are the ones linked in my first post, does that help?

[Pinky69]

I've checked them again and the first documents pertain to a loan and a preference account, as do the Terms and Conditions. The second document is a statement relating to the preference account. The preference account is a bank account with an overdraft limited operated by a Keycard. There is no credit card mentioned anywhere, nor is there an agreement pertaining to a credit card, nor are there Terms and Conditions relating to a credit card. I hope that helps.

[tetley75]

Hi Pinky, so would you write saying it's invalid because of the incorrect APR and the missing info.

[nicklea]

The calculations are incorrect. If I am correct in reading that the APR is 7.8%, then 60 repayments on £6909 is £138.55. The leeway allowed is 1%, which is £1.40. This would allow them to miscalculate to £139.95 - wrong calculations render the agreement invalid. I would argue with them that the agreement they sent you is invalid because the calculations are wrong. You can check the figures yourself on an APR calculator.

 

Don't forget that there is a 3 month payment holiday so the figures are correct

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

[Pinky69]

I didn't know there was a payment hoilday. All documents referred to in the agreement must be sent and there is no Uses of Data information. You should also have had statements showing what has been paid and what is still outstanding. Until they have sent these, they are in breach of your request.

 

You have not been sent a copy of the credit agreement.

[kel123]

Your preference Account Like mine is a loan and as such rerquires the prescribed terms to be correct including the APR (tolerance -0.1 / +1%)

 

There is no agreed holiday - if this was the case then the APR would still be outside the tolerances.

 

Definition of a current account says that you can pay in and have SO and DD you CANNOT do this with this account, I tried in 2006.

[nicklea]

You have not been sent a copy of the credit agreement.

 

THe original poster has been sent a copy of the credit agreement

[nicklea]

Your preference Account Like mine is a loan and as such rerquires the prescribed terms to be correct including the APR (tolerance -0.1 / +1%)

 

I believe that it's actually a running credit facility.

 

There is no agreed holiday - if this was the case then the APR would still be outside the tolerances.

 

This is incorrect. If you have a look at part 3 - particulars of loan it clearly says that the first payment will be made 3 months after the date of the agreement.

 

I checked the apr with the OFT's dualcalc and it works out at 7.9% apr which is within the tolerance you mentioned

[Pinky69]

I menat the original pster has not been sent a copyof an agreement for a credit card, which is part of what he was asking about.

[Pinky69]

I should add that he has been sent a copy of the credit document for the loan but not all the constituent parts of a credit agreement which are required under the Act - other documents referred to in the credit document and statements. They have not fulfilled his request under the Act.

[nicklea]

The op has received the agreement for the running credit facility, it's on the same page as the loan agreement.

[kel123]

Here is a clearer view

 

 

It actually says

 

...Commencing two months from the date of the agreement.... Which is correct because you get the first month free

 

OFT says where p = no. of months it is calculated :-

 

P1+P2......+p60 = 60 months

 

In the case of OP

 

Free month +P1+P2......+P60 = 61 months

 

This is how BOS have incorrectly worked it out

(they have included the date of the agreement in as a node)

 

Agreement date+Free month+P1+P2......P60 = 62 months

 

To include a 3 months holiday? (don't matter were you put them)

 

H1+H2+H3+AG+FM+P1+P2....+P60 = 65 months

 

Dualcalc should be filled in like this

 

Zero:1

£x:60

[kel123]

also it is not a running account, It is a loan account with 2 ways of using it

 

1. A direct loan usually restricted so you get all the money

2. A guarentted loan amount which you can draw off using the keycard (like a cc they can amend the guarentteed amount to suit and send you monthly statement on what you have spent and the minimum you need to repay next month)

 

Next question is; then it is a current account NO! you cannot have your wages paid in nor can it be used for SO or DD, I tried in 2006.

[nicklea]

 

...Commencing two months from the date of the agreement.... Which is correct because you get the first month free

 

Commencing two months from the date of agreement the payment is £0.

 

The first actual payment is made 3 months after the date of the agreement

 

Dualcalc assumes that the first payment will be made at the end of the first time period not at the beginning

 

Dualcalc should be filled in like this

 

Zero:1

£x:60

 

 

I disagree, I believe it should be zero:2

[nicklea]

also it is not a running account, It is a loan account with 2 ways of using it

 

1. A direct loan usually restricted so you get all the money

2. A guarentted loan amount which you can draw off using the keycard (like a cc they can amend the guarentteed amount to suit and send you monthly statement on what you have spent and the minimum you need to repay next month)

 

What you have described here is a fixed-sum credit agreement in the case of 1. and a running-account credit agreement in the case of of 2. (see s10 CCA 1974). The loan is fixed sum, the Preference account is running.

 

The "guaranteed loan amount" is the credit facility they have given you and the fact that, taking regard of any payments you make to credit the account, you have to stay within the credit limit you have been given is the whole essence of a running account agreement.

 

Next question is; then it is a current account NO! you cannot have your wages paid in nor can it be used for SO or DD, I tried in 2006.

 

You are right - it is not a current account. It does have SOME features similar to a current account (such as a cheque book etc) but that does NOT make it a current account. It is simply a means to access an extra line of credit.

[kel123]

Nicklea

 

I disagree with your interpretation of the 3 months for the reasons I have outlined and no the loan started exactly as it said 2 months after the date of the agreement I should now I had this dam thing.

 

IT IS NOT a running account It is a guarenteed loan agreement. similar but different (when applying for cca, running agreement comes under s78 and the Guarenteed loan comes under s77 (s10(a) and s10(b) repectivally))