Disabled & Scared! Owe 20k to Halifax!**WON** DISCONTINUED AND WROTE OFF

[HalifaxPickle!]

Hi

 

I am planning on sending the CCA request on Monday, so will sort the letter out over the weekend.

 

What is the basic procedure in dummy terms? I wait 12 days then do what etc? I am sorry for being dim but want to make sure that I know exactly what I need to do and my rights before I send the letter monday.

 

Thanks

 

HP

[Mrs_Ryan]

HP, just sit back and wait.

 

From a point of view of someone who used to work with 'hardship' accounts, i.e people like yourself suffering a serious/terminal illness, I would have said you have fairly good grounds in asking for a write-off. I cant believe the way Halifax have treated you - its absolutely disgusting.

As everyone said - contact the press. If people read about the disgusting way Halifax think it is acceptable to behave in a case like yours, then with any luck they will vote with their feet.

 

Sosumi - well said. Halifax, hang your heads in shame.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello HP!

 

It's 12 Working Days from when they Receive the s77-79 Request, so my advice is to Send it via Recorded Delivery or, preferably, via Special Delivery. The latter is Tracked, whereas the former is not that reliable in terms of being 100% sure of being able to prove when Delivery took place.

 

They also have some wriggle room, although the 12 Working Days is the Law. These bankers often try to S-T-R-E-T-C-H Deadlines as there is some slack in the actual Deadline wording, associated with them being able to post on the 12th Day and claim that counts as having met the Deadline.

 

There is a further issue that says anything sent via First Class is deemed to have been served two Days later, so you can see a little fudging can happen around the Deadline. So, in theory, they can Post it on the Deadline, and then their Letter can be in the Post for 2 Days.

 

You can probably guess why few bankers send them Recorded Delivery, as they don't want the Day of Delivery Recorded, as that would be inconvenient for them.

 

That's why many people on CAG say allow 12 Days +2, just to be sure. However, it is 12 Working Days for the first Deadline.

 

Just as an example of how they bend the Deadline rules, I just received an Agreement that was very, very dubious in terms of meeting the Deadline. Their Letter was Dated 5 Days before the Deadline, and yet had a Franking Post Mark with their Franking Licence on it dated 3 Days AFTER the Deadline, which arrived two Days after Posting. So, it arrived 5 Days after the Deadline, and yet has a Date on the Letter 10 Days before Delivery. It's clear they back-dated the Letter and Posted AFTER the Deadline.

 

So, KEEP THE ENVELOPES in which their Letters arrive and Date the Receipt onto them, AND onto the Letters too. Then clip the Envelopes to the back of their Letters. It may be important to prove that they have been either back-dating Letters or they've been amazingly inefficient when Posting them!

 

After the 12 Working Days +2 to be sure, then if they have failed to produce your Agreement, then they are in Default of your Legal s77-79 Request and the alleged Account is very firmly in Dispute. At that stage it is uneforceable in Law (although that can change if they do produce an Enforceable Agreement).

 

Once in Dispute, and it is arguably in Dispute from the Day that they receive your s77-79 request, it means the alleged Debt is on hold while they get their Act together. They can't then add Interst, Sell the Debt, Default you, Enforce the Debt or say nasty things about you to Credit Reference Agencies (CRA).

 

After the 12 Working Days, they have one Month (or 30 Calendar Days) to produce the Agreement. After that last Deadline, if they have still not produced it, then they are in Criminal Default. After that, even if they come up with an otherwise Enforceable Agreement, they cannot then Enforce it without going to Court to get a Judge to agree. Then they will also have to explain to the same Judge why they are in Criminal Default of your request.

 

Please understand that the Debt still exists, but after 12 Working Days they can't Enforce it without an Agreement, and after the 30 Calendar Days, they can't Enforce it without a Judge saying they can.

 

If they completely fail to come up with an Enforceable Agreement, then they cannot force you to Pay it at all. In your position, if it gets to that stage, I would move on and let them stew.

 

This is a quick run-through, I hope it makes sense. Please ask, as many will clarify anything that is not clear for you.

 

I hope this helps, and sorry you are having to deal with this banking nonsense at such a time.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Enron]

Don't worry, we're all here to support you.

 

Heres the details for you:

 

Andy Hornby

Chief Executive

HBOS plc

PO Box No. 5

The Mound

Edinburgh

Scotland EH1 1YZ

 

Write to him outlining your situation, and what has happened with the harassment you have received from Halifax.

 

Certainly he won't want any bad publicity, and it might be worth mentioning that you are writing to him in advance of contacting any press.

[HalifaxPickle!]

HP, just sit back and wait.

 

From a point of view of someone who used to work with 'hardship' accounts, i.e people like yourself suffering a serious/terminal illness, I would have said you have fairly good grounds in asking for a write-off. I cant believe the way Halifax have treated you - its absolutely disgusting.

As everyone said - contact the press. If people read about the disgusting way Halifax think it is acceptable to behave in a case like yours, then with any luck they will vote with their feet.

 

Sosumi - well said. Halifax, hang your heads in shame.

 

The CAb asked for the debt to be written off, but Halifax said no! That was the first thing CAB advised me to.

 

HP

[car2403]

Heres the details for you:

 

Andy Hornby

Chief Executive

HBOS plc

PO Box No. 5

The Mound

Edinburgh

Scotland EH1 1YZ

 

Write to him outlining your situation, and what has happened with the harassment you have received from Halifax.

 

Certainly he won't want any bad publicity, and it might be worth mentioning that you are writing to him in advance of contacting any press.

 

Nah... He won't give a monkeys! Save your stamp, I say...

[Enron]

Think it's worth a try!

 

Sister was in hospital for a couple of months after sufferring a heart attack and subsequent complications a year ago.

 

She was receiving all manner of threatenning letter. Writing to the top bod put an end to those - though the debt was relatively small.

 

Even if he replies negatively and is unhelpful, that can be shown to the press which will cast HBOS in an even worse light.

 

The bottom line is their profits, but at the same time they care about their reputation.

[patrickq1]

yes it will cast a greater spell over Halifax full stop when you consider the Goverment are trying to get the banks to be more lenient and helpfull over the debt situation and he has also mentioned the traders and bankers who do not toe the line shall be themselves be dealt with more seriously with their fsa and all other goverment agancies so write first at least you are givin them the chance to respond but also let them know you are about to speak with the press and television people ? wow i think he will do his upmost to avert any bad publicity and just when they may be ready to borrow money from the BoE they cant afford any scandals

patrickq1

[Pinky69]

I wrote to Andy Hornby about 6 weeks ago and got a reply from him that he would investigate the matter. I haven't heard anything since because the BOS are in deep doo-doo having broken every rule in the book and won't want me to make a complaint to the FOS, which I am going to once the 8 weeks are up. I agree you should write to Andy Hornby. Publicity of this kind is just the stuff they don't want. I wrote to the Chief Executive of BT for a friend and a problem that had rumbled on for months was fixed in 3 days.

[sosumi]

Go to the press with it. Tell them what you've told us. xx

[sosumi]

Financial Advice, News, Help & Guides from This is Money UK

That's the web page for the Daily Mail/Mail on Sunday and the Evening Standard.

This page has the contact emails for news stories right at the bottom:

Contact us | This is Money

I'd also suggest BBC, Guardian, Independent - and your local MP. Hand it over to them and let them deal with it, as you shouldn't have to.

xx sosumi

[Enron]

Think that whilst the credit crunch is ongoing, and coverage of problems persist... the last thing that the banks want is more negative attention.

[vinegarvera]

Just wanted to add my support HP and send you a big cyber hugXXXX

[HalifaxPickle!]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I will send the CCA letter off on Monday via Special Delivery and will keep a copy etc etc.

 

Could someone give me an idea of what to put into a letter to the top man of Halifax:confused: ....or even a letter that I could copy and paste as I dont have much energy ATM.

 

So basically, with the CCA...the gist of it as I understand it is...

 

(1)Send off CCA letter

(2)They have 12 + 2 days to respond enclosing the original CCA

(3)After 12+2 days if I havent received my original CCA they are in default and this account would be on hold with no further action placed untill the sort themselves out

.....then what do I do?

 

Do I send another letter after the 12+2 days? ....I just want to be perfectly clear in my brain IYSWIM.

 

Thanks

 

HP

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello HP!

 

Just a quick one on the CCA...

 

...once you have sent off your Request, sit back and see what appears within the 12 Working Days.

 

After that, you may get differing advice on what to do. Some would say keep sitting back, and wait a week or so after the 12 Working Days are up. The longer they take, the better, as they will then be getting closer and closer to the +30 days Deadline.

 

I would be more inclined to send them a Letter just after the expiry of the 12 Working Days, mainly to put on record via Recorded/Special Delivery that you are Complaining that they have not Responded, and that you now regard the alleged Account is in Dispute as they are in Default of your Legal Request. There are Templates that you can use, but we can deal with that in slow time over the next 12+ Days.

 

The key is this makes it clear you feel they are already in the wrong, and Dates your Complaint.

 

If they then try to sneak out a Back-Dated Letter, it won't then look so clever for them as you got in first with your Default Complaint and Notification that the alleged Debt is in Dispute.

 

But this is just my opinion, others may well advise another tactic, and none are wrong as such. It is not set in stone how to handle these bankers when they start to mess up on their Duties.

 

They may well send you something within the 12 Working Days, but let us know, and I'm sure you will get a lot of help to look at that carefully for any issues that will work in your favour.

 

For now, just get the Requst off, and then see what comes back.

 

Do make sure that you save their Envelopes, as they may one day come in handy to pin-point when they actually responded, as opposed to the Date they put on the Letter!

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[HalifaxPickle!]

So which letter would be the best one to send for the CCA?

 

Thanks

 

HP

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello HP!

 

Good point, I'm not sure there is a Template for the initial CCA Request, so the Letter below should do the trick. Please note that the CCA Request is for the Credit Card, not the Bank Account. Please edit as needed for your own purposes:

 

Thanks goes to pt2537 who drafted this Letter first, I am only re-producing it here for you. Parts in Red are my additions/changes.

 

 

HalifaxPickle!

HalifaxPickle! House

HalifaxPickle! Road

HalifaxPickle! Town

HalifaxPickle! County

HalifaxPickle! Postcode

 

20th April 2008

 

Nasty Bank Name

Nasty Bank Building

Nasty Bank Street

Nasty Bank Town

Nasty Bank County

Nasty Bank Postcode

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: 0123 4567 8901 2345

[Just State your Account Number, don't say my Account]

 

With reference to the above agreement, I require that you provide me a true copy of the credit agreement

 

I am aware that section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out clearly what is required to comply with my request and quote “shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it” For clarification I require a copy of the agreement, any terms and conditions from the time when the agreement was executed together with a copy of current terms and conditions and a copy of the cancellation notice if the agreement refers to “Your Right to Cancel” within it. I also require a statement of account as laid out also within Section 78(1). If there weren’t any terms and conditions then please confirm this in your response

 

I am entitled to receive the information on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00, which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I note that section 172 outlines that statements by creditors are binding where made under inter alia section 78(1) and I take this to be that any reply made in response to this request is binding upon you. Therefore you should ensure that all documents request are supplied. Any missing documents will be considered not part of the agreement and could therefore affect the enforceability of anything you send.

 

I understand that Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1569) at regulation 2 sets out the required time frame for compliance with this request as being 12 working days from receipt

 

Should you fail to comply with my request as outlined above, I shall consider the account in dispute. I am aware that where a creditor fails to supply the requested information the creditors rights to enforcement are restricted until such time as they comply. I am also aware that there are certain terms that are required to be within the “Agreement” and should these terms be mis-stated or not present the agreement can be rendered unenforceable in law.

 

Notwithstanding the above, I note that the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) at Regulation 3 allows the Signature box and signature to be omitted in a copy document but the copy document must contain all the terms off the agreement contained within the signed executed original document

 

I respectfully request that you provide a copy of the original agreement signed by myself that you hold on file and while I accept that you can omit the signature box for the purposes of compliance with my request, you will be aware that any challenge to the agreement in court would require the signed copy of the original agreement. If you still reject this, please provide clarification on the status of the Original Credit Agreement and confirm either that you hold the original signed agreement on file or a copy of it on microfliche or that you no longer hold the file

 

Also please provide details of who I may address a subject access request to under the Data Protection Act 1998 section 7 so that I may obtain a copy of the original agreement should you fail to forward a copy in respect of this request

 

Therefore I look forward to receiving this information within the time frames as indicated above.

 

Yours faithfully

HalifaxPickle!

 

This Letter is longer than some, but does pin them down from the outset. This Letter stops them from being too keen to try any of the usual tricks to delay matters and/or to produce bumf that is not needed.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[HalifaxPickle!]

Thanks very much.

 

HP

[HalifaxPickle!]

Hi Again!

 

I am just about to print out the letter to get OH to post tomorrow. I have a few questions:

 

(1)I am sending to the address in Halifax..is this correct?

(2)Do I sign the letter?

(3)If I post tomorrow by SD, when will the dates be up etc?

(4)Should I use a personal cheque (from another account), or is it safer to use a PO?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

HP

[Pinky69]

1) Send it to the Halifax address

2)Do not sign - print your name at the end of the letter

3) Assuming they sign for it on the 22nd (you can check on the Royal Mail website when it was signed for), they will be in default on 9 May if they do not send an agreement (12 working days after receipt - the 5th May is a Bank Holiday so does not count)

4) Send a Postal Order, not a personal cheque

[noomill060]

Your personal cheque will have your signature on it...

 

£1 Postal Order everytime, for reasons already explained.

[HalifaxPickle!]

How do you know when a PO has been cashed? Who do I make the PO payable too?

 

Thanks

 

HP

[Iceman54]

Morning HP

 

Keep the Post Office receipt and clip it to the letter along with your postage tracking slip

 

make the postal order out to the people you are CCA ing

 

It is also a good idea to write on the back of the postal order

 

"For CCA request only"

 

this is all advice I have been given by the good people on here

[patrickq1]

Keep the Post Office receipt and clip it to the letter along with your postage tracking slip

clip it to your copy of the letter

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

and you can ring the post office with your tracking slip number see when it was cashed after the 12 days

patrickq1