BraveheartBear v FirstPlus

[Braveheart Bear]

hello, I am new to the consumer group as far as posting anything is concerned, but have read lots of your info on this subject and FirstPlus in particular . Have just received all my info from FP following my S.A.R and now dont know what to do next.

 

I believe I was missold PPI by FirstPlus for the following reasons -

 

1) At no time was I told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere to cover the loan

2) It was not made clear that the insurance was only valid for the first five years of the loan - all the advisors kept reminding me was that i would get the premiums back after 5 years, no mention was made of the term of the policy, which I (naively) assumed would cover the full term of the loan since the advisor kept reminding me how important it was to cover a loan of this amount over a long period

3) I was not asked if I already had any policy in place which would cover the loan

4) I was not asked anything about medical history which might invalidate the insurance

5) I was not advised of the full cost of the loan, that it would be a single premium paid at the start of the loan, but that interest would be added to the full term.

 

My question first of all is do I have a claim ? or am I being overly optimistic ?

 

My second loan details came with a booklet explaining the ppi policy, but while it mentions the 5 years, i thought this related to the cash back not the the policy itself, nor does it mention other policies being available, or the true cost of the policy. Earlier posts re Firstplus seem to give this booklet as a reason to refuse a mis sale, so is there any point in claiming ? The booklet came with the completed loan, that is after it was all agreed, and the money paid out, would this make any difference?

 

My first loan was for £25000 plus PPI £4982 taken out in Nov 2000 and redeemed in May 2003, the second loan for £55000 plus PPI £13469, taken out in May 2004 and ongoing (though am hoping to redeem shortly). Both loans were for 300 months.

 

It appears that FP used ( both on the first loan and on my recent redemption figure request) the rule of 78 to calculate my early redemption charges, from what I have read this has been proved unfair and is frowned upon. Can I challenge the use of this too, given the dates the loans were originally taken out ?

 

Any help or assistance would be much appreciated.

 

Braveheart Bear

[Bog]

Sounds like you are in excatly the same position as me and it's my belief we have been mis-sold.

 

See my thread here... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/137511-bog-first-plus-ppi.html

 

Did they send you a cassette of your calls? They sent me one and it clearly works against them!

[Braveheart Bear]

Thanks for your comment.

Yes they sent the tapes and they also do not support Firstplus at all.

Should I be sending the letter asap, i'm eager to get this ball rolling sooner rather than later.

Should I be claiming for both loans simultaneously or separately?

Can I insist on them refunding the first loan directly to me and not to reduce the second loan, they were not linked in any way ?

How do I calculate exactly how much we should be claiming for each, the excel link i've found appears broken.

 

Any help I can get in sorting this out would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks in advance.

[Braveheart Bear]

Sent out letter yesterday giving Firstplus 14 days from receipt of the Recorded Delivery letter to respond with settlement of the first loan and calculations for the second.

 

Assuming the calculations you have used, Bog, are correct, and i've checked them a couple of times because the numbers just seemed scary, I am owed over £30,000 for the first loan and potentially over £50,000 reduction on the second. all in all, if they settle by simply wiping off the second loan, i'll be happy.

 

Needless to say, i'm not expecting a simple cheque, merely on the basis that I am asking for over £80,000.

 

I will keep all informed. these people need to be stopped !

[BaldyBaldwin]

Best of luck, will watch this one with interest (excuse the pun)

I am in exactly the same boat, but with halifax. They show no duty of care and the attitude seems to be to just add on the PPI regardless of whether its suitable or not and then let the customer sort it out later, if ever.

Best of,BB

[BaldyBaldwin]

Did they discuss any pre-existing medical conditions or employment history with you? as these seem to be there biggest get out clauses if you were ever to make a claim??

[Braveheart Bear]

Hmm, let me think !

 

Pre-existing medical conditions ?

 

Oh, that's right, they mentioned nothing at all concerning what the policy covered, or for that matter what it did not cover.

They did mention that I got my premium back after five years, and that I got my premium back after five years, also that I would get the premium back in five years along with the fact that as long as I did not claim, I would get a refund of the premium after five years.

 

All that said and done, I went back and reviewed the tapes again, for both loans, and they make no attempt what so ever to establish if I needed insurance, but do mention it is adviseable on a loan of this size. They were clearly aware that I was employed and had been with the same company for years. They were also specifically told that I had no intention of letting the loan run the full term for either loan. They do mention the difference in monthly premiums during the calls, circa £20-30 per month, further implying that the premium was monthly.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention, they did say that I would get the premium refunded after five years, so it effectively it does not cost me anything.

 

Except effectively £90,000 for the two loans.

[Bog]

Hmm, let me think !

 

Pre-existing medical conditions ?

 

Oh, that's right, they mentioned nothing at all concerning what the policy covered, or for that matter what it did not cover.

They did mention that I got my premium back after five years, and that I got my premium back after five years, also that I would get the premium back in five years along with the fact that as long as I did not claim, I would get a refund of the premium after five years.

 

All that said and done, I went back and reviewed the tapes again, for both loans, and they make no attempt what so ever to establish if I needed insurance, but do mention it is adviseable on a loan of this size. They were clearly aware that I was employed and had been with the same company for years. They were also specifically told that I had no intention of letting the loan run the full term for either loan. They do mention the difference in monthly premiums during the calls, circa £20-30 per month, further implying that the premium was monthly.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention, they did say that I would get the premium refunded after five years, so it effectively it does not cost me anything.

 

Except effectively £90,000 for the two loans.

 

LOL

 

Yep, same for me!

 

I think they will regret sending the tapes as they screw themselves into the ground on it. 50% of the conversation is checking details and the rest is "you should have PPI on a loan this size but you do get a refund after 5 years Blah Blah...."

 

They know the y have mis-sold and worse still taken advantage of people when they are most vunerable.

 

I sure they won't want these played out in court

 

Mrs Vorderman make it seem like FP are so wonderful and are there to help - if only she knew (...or maybe she does???)

[BaldyBaldwin]

i think closes her eyes and counts the cash, greedy moo.

[Braveheart Bear]

Naa,

Carol just looks at the pile of cash and know's exactly how much there is instantly. Along with the Square and Cube Root of it!!!

 

One can only hope she does not know what what we believe these guys are up too.

 

I genuinly can't wait for their first response.

 

Now that I've hunted the web for a couple of weeks, I'm absolutely fuming at the sheer number of people who have fallen fowl of PPI, myself included.

 

Will keep all informed....

[Braveheart Bear]

Blimey. FirstPlus responded with a standard holding letter.

Is this more than everyone else has had in the first instance ?

 

Their letter does advise that they will respond as quickly as possible, but not later than ????, completely ignoring the 14 days, or ????, detailed in our recorded delivery letter.

 

They also advise that they enclose a complaints leaflet detailing how they work to resolve complaints, but have not enclosed it. Sort of supports the level of competence we all appear to have seen.

 

Should we ring them to say they have not enclosed the leaflet, putting it on official record that they have failed to act proffessionally again?

 

Should we respond stating we are not prepared to wait until then, or use this to respond should they reject the claim, stating that we have given them ample opportunity to review the claim, as a gesture of goodwill, especially as they can only review what they sent us in the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)?

 

In the meantime, I have started to transcribe the conversations, so that should they reject my claim, I can quote verbatim their responses.

[outraged]

I have loan with Firstplus and only found out recently that my husband was only covered on the loan even though its a joint loan we thought it was a joint policy. Also that it only covered him for the first 5 years (our 5 years are up now). I thought we were covered for the term of the loan. So you can imagine our shock to find we aren't covered now!! Anyway the thing I need to ask is I think we were definatley mis sold the insurance policy. We paid £15183 for 5 years cover!! outrageous. BUT 3 years into the loan my husband had an accident and was off work for 4 mths so we had to claim on the insurance. Does that me we can't complain about the PPI if we have already claimed on it. Are we stuffed??? Does anyone know??

[Braveheart Bear]

Afternoon "outraged".

 

I think the fact that you have made a successful claim may make it very difficult to claim you were missold the policy, when you clearly did need one.

 

However, it may be worthwhile discussing this with others as it seems at least possible that you could have purchased a policy elsewhere for the full term cheaper, which would have also paid out.

 

Would be interesting to see where this one could go !

[Charlies Angel]

subscribing

[Bog]

IMHO You were still mis-sold as you were not told ALL of the facts up front i.e the true cost in terms of interest.

 

So it my not be possible to get a refund of the premium in full, but I would assume you could claim the interest you have paid to date.

[Braveheart Bear]

Morning Firtsplus fans !

 

Well, I finally got their complains letter, which basically says we'll look into your complaint and if not happy you can pursue it further. Not the most useful document in the world.

 

Anyway, i've been doing a little more digging through household paperwork and found something a little interesting.

 

I have found docuementation which clearly confirms that I receive 2 years full Sick Pay, as a result of Employer Company Policy and Pension Benefits. Any redundancy would result in upwards of a years sallary in a lump sum with three months notice.

 

I have been with this employer for over 10 years, covering both loans.

 

So my question is, pre empting FP's rejection,

As they did not ask me if I had cover elsewhere, along with a multitude of other questions that were not asked, does this further confirm that the policy was mis-sold?

 

Secondly, I've seen a letter from Firstplus to my mortgage supplier asking for permission to charge the property with the amount of the loan, excluding the PPI amounts. Can I use this to further support the confusion about the PPI and means of payment?

 

I've listened to the Telephone Calls again, and find no form of enquiry on behalf of FirstPlus to establish if I need the cover in the first place, no comments advising that the PPI is added to the Loan amount, just lots of comments about the size of the loan and the cashback.

 

Have a good weekend !

[Bog]

 

Secondly, I've seen a letter from Firstplus to my mortgage supplier asking for permission to charge the property with the amount of the loan, excluding the PPI amounts. Can I use this to further support the confusion about the PPI and means of payment?

 

 

Did you get this in your SAR?

 

I did not, which makes me even more certain they have not fully complied with SAR.

 

Did they quote 8 weeks for the comlaint to be looked into?

[Braveheart Bear]

Did you get this in your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)?

 

I did not, which makes me even more certain they have not fully complied with SAR.

 

Did they quote 8 weeks for the comlaint to be looked into?

 

Yes, the letter to my mortgage company came with the SAR.

They quoted they would respond within 4 weeks, not 8 weeks. Seems they have a different policy for every client.

[Bog]

Seems they have a different policy for every client.

 

Even more evidence of their inconsistancy -Which I will be using against them

[Braveheart Bear]

Evening all,

 

Well, the time allowance provided in my letter has expired.

 

We are now in the realms if my goodwill vs Firstplus's ability to keep to their promises. That is, to completely ignore my time limit and use their own.

 

Needless to say, irrespective of their initial response, there will be no further extensions given and this will be made VERY clear in my next correspondence.

 

In passing I have also noticed a number of "comments" in the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) documentation, referring to letters to and from my mortgage company, some of which have not been supplied. Can someone confirm to me that their is a breach of the Data Protection Act here as the SAR was sent quite some time ago. If they state there is a letter, surely they should hold a copy of it?

[Braveheart Bear]

Afternoon all.

Well, as FP's own deadline for responding looms, guess what ?

That's right, we've had an Interest Rate increase through the post!

Now one could ask,

Is this because we have had a couple of interest rate increases in recent months, but from memory, and I could be wrong, I was under the impression that the Bank Of England had reduced, or at the very least maintained the Base rate for over six months?

OR

Is this because they have finally realised that we are not going to give up without a fight and need to recoup some of their upcoming losses following the Rule Of 78 comments we have all made and the fact that more and more claims are proving successful against them?

 

Has anyone else had the increase? Or is it just me ?

[joolzh13]

BraveheartBear - you're not alone, we got stung last night in the post too. 0.5% increase .......

 

Surely this has to get regulated. I am at my wits end with finances, the trouble is its short term. if i could write to the credit card companies and get my monthly payments lowered for a period of twelve months I'd be laughing except the world doesn't work this way.

 

I got my SAR from First plus a week ago however I dont have a tape player so until i get round that problem I can't listen to the tape. I want to be able to listen and type up the content incase the tape gets chewed up.

 

FIRST PLUS SUCK. I know they were there to lend the money when we needed it but those sucked in know that actually it's probably the worse option to have taken.

[Braveheart Bear]

Speculate to accumulate.

You can purchase a "walkman" style tape player for £6.99 from Argos.

You can always give it to another cagger. If only the postage was cheaper.

 

Anyone else been stung?

[Bog]

Got my interest rate letter from FP today - money grabbing gits!

 

Also got a voice message from them re the PPi refund, which is interesting as today is the LBA deadline!

[Demtootief]

Hi Braveheart,

 

I have indeed received a 0.5% interest rate increase which will be applied 21/05/08. And as far as waiting is concerned, Firstplus have already settled my claim. You need to go ahead and send your letter claiming mis-selling.

 

Good luck.