Bog vs First Plus PPI - Formula help needed.

[Bog]

Over the past few weeks I've been reading various posts regarding claiming back a single premium policy. I have all of my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) data (Including tape, which IMO helps my claim :grin: ) back from First Plus and I'm now at the stage where I've compiled my re-claim letter.

 

But I'm a bit stuck with the formula to work out what I'm owed. In the past I have seen a couple of realy good posts which explained it, but despite lots of searching today I can't find them.

 

Can someone point me in the right direction please

 

I assume it's along the following lines:

 

1. Full premium less any rebate given when loan settled, plus interest (On full premium for full loan term at loadn Apr?? )

 

2. Premiums paid to date plus intrest (@ 8% or loan Apr?)

 

 

I'll keep you all updated on how I get on an once I've finished my letter, I will post it here to assit others.

 

Cheers

Edited May 26, 2008 by Bog
'Won' in title

[Bog]

I've had another search and I think I've cracked it using hellhasnofury's calculations in Kanecole's thread (Thanks guys:) ), but need someone just to confirm what I have done.

 

Sorry about the quality - Not sure how to post a spreadsheet, so I attached it as an image - if you require me to PM the spreadsheet I can.

 

 

2006 Loan still current (but due to be settled soon), so I'm not sure how affects the figures.

 

If I have got this right (or it needs a little tweaking), I'm hame to upload the spreadsheet for others to use.

 

Hope this makes sense.

[hellhasnofury]

I've had another search and I think I've cracked it using hellhasnofury's calculations in Kanecole's thread (Thanks guys:) ), but need someone just to confirm what I have done.

 

Sorry about the quality - Not sure how to post a spreadsheet, so I attached it as an image - if you require me to PM the spreadsheet I can.

 

 

2006 Loan still current (but due to be settled soon), so I'm not sure how affects the figures.

 

If I have got this right (or it needs a little tweaking), I'm hame to upload the spreadsheet for others to use.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

Hello Bog,

 

If my calculations are correct, you are going to have a lovely holiday:lol:

 

Isn't it amazing how when you work out the actual interest they do charge you especially in the 2nd loan:roll:

 

Send them your preliminary letter asking for it back, and if you have the figures on a spreadsheet, work out the stat 8% interest on top and also work out the contractual interest especially the 9+% loan,

 

Good luck and keep us posted:grin:

 

Firstplus deserve it:grin:

[Bog]

Thanks for the response hellhasnofury

 

One thing I did not mention is that these are not 3 seperate loans, the 06 settled the 05 and the 05 settled the 04, if you get what I mean.

 

What I can't get my head around is what do they actually owe me? as I have not paid the 'Total PPI Interest' or have I. The 04 & 05 loans did not run the full term, so do I just have to work out the interest on the months I paid?

 

Also, can you explain a bit more about the the stat interest and also work the contractual interest and give me an example of how to work it out.

 

Many thanks.

[KaneCole]

sorry duplicated message

[KaneCole]

Hi Bog

 

Could you post your spreadsheet somewhere so I can see if I can make any sense of mine with First Plus.

 

Thanks Sally (KaneCole)

[Goldlady]

Hi, on the one I did for my friends against firstplus I had all the information from firstplus about how much the PPI on the first loan was and how much was refunded when the second loan was taken out etc. I did a very simple spreadsheet, charging the interest to the PPI amount on a monthly basis and refunding it when they refunded part of the premiums.

 

In my friends case Firstplus are recalculating the entire loan on the basis that the PPI never existed. I would suggest that as long as you are near enough in your calculations they will do the difficult bit when they agree it was mis-sold;)

[Bog]

Hi Bog

 

Could you post your spreadsheet somewhere so I can see if I can make any sense of mine with First Plus.

 

Thanks Sally (KaneCole)

 

Will do

 

I'm at work at the moment, but I'll try and attach it tonight.

 

As for the SAR, yes I did get it back, but I'm starting to think it's incomplete - I will decide how I pursue that after their response to my refund request.

 

To be honest, I think FP deliberatly provided the least amount of detail in attempt to hide the true cost of their products/services. The play on peoples times of need!

 

Time for us to all fight back me thinks :grin:

[KaneCole]

Bog.

 

On the figures you calculated will you also be asking for 8% statutory interest on top ? or just the interest rate charged by First Plus. I notice a lot of the standard template letters say to claim it because you beleive you have been deprived of your money and that is what a court would award. But is that in addition to the interest already charged ? Is it better just to try to claim back what you have lost originally ? Or do you think we should add on this at the beginning and then see what they offer ?

 

Sally

[Bog]

Bog.

 

On the figures you calculated will you also be asking for 8% statutory interest on top ? or just the interest rate charged by First Plus. I notice a lot of the standard template letters say to claim it because you beleive you have been deprived of your money and that is what a court would award. But is that in addition to the interest already charged ? Is it better just to try to claim back what you have lost originally ? Or do you think we should add on this at the beginning and then see what they offer ?

 

Sally

 

Yes, I will be asking for 8% statutory interest on top, in fact I'm going to ask for contractual interest instead as it's higher than the 8% (8.59% and 9.2%). This is what the have charged me, therefore it's only right they pay the same. I'm going to use the following text in the letter:

 

I am requesting a full refund of all premiums, and subsequent interest on these payments, that I have paid to date. As I believe I have been deprived of this money I also expect contractual interest.

 

I have calculated the contractual interest at 8.59% APR for agreement xxxxxx and at 9.2% APR for agreement xxxxxx, both of which you applied to the relevant loan at the time of inception, reflecting the principal of mutuality and reciprocity.

 

Hope this helps.... The problem is that it is really complicated to work out what we are owed (Just the way First Plus want it:rolleyes: ), but as Goldlady says, if we get the figures close, Frist Plus can work out the detail for us.

[Bog]

Wow! First Plus are quick at responding.

 

I sent my request for refund letter on Monday and I received a response today.

 

Not happy with it though, as they have refered the first loan to Norton Finance and are saying they (First Plus) will respond by the 6th May - in over three weeks!

 

This is the response I'm sending....

 

Dear xxxx,

 

Thank for your letter dated 9th April 2008, I appreciate your quick response to my letter dated 7th April 2008.

 

However, I do not agree with your referral of my complaint relating to agreement xxxxx to Norton Finance. Norton Finance are an intermediary and whilst they recommended First Plus to me, they did not sell the payment protection policy to me.

 

First Plus is responsible for the mis-selling of the payment protection policy as commission is paid for the sale of said policy (Please refer to this case law precedent - Decision in Hurstanger v Wilson [2007] EWCA Civ 299).

 

Also, the tape you sent under my Data Protection S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request clearly shows it was an advisor from First Plus that sold the insurance policy to me.

 

In addition, I do not accept your proposed timescale for your response to my complaint. I am fully aware this a stalling tactic and it is wholly unacceptable. I will not wait for over three weeks for a resolution.

 

Upon taking legal advice, I will give you until 21st April for you to respond in witting, as I believe 14 days is more than enough time for a large organisation to investigate a complaint. I am sure if it was the other way around and First Plus believe I owed it money, you would expect a quick response from me!

 

To be absolutely clear and as stated in my previous letter, If I do not receive a favourable response from you by the 21st April, I will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman and indeed through the courts.

 

I look forward again to your prompt response.

 

 

Is this OK, any comments?

[hellhasnofury]

Wow! First Plus are quick at responding.

 

I sent my request for refund letter on Monday and I received a response today.

 

Not happy with it though, as they have refered the first loan to Norton Finance and are saying they (First Plus) will respond by the 6th May - in over three weeks!

 

This is the response I'm sending....

 

 

 

Is this OK, any comments?

 

Excellet letter Bog, Tells them that you know what your talking about:-D

[Bog]

Excellet letter Bog, Tells them that you know what your talking about:-D

 

Thanks Hell, I'm posting it today

 

We will see what happens......

[Bog]

Despite my letter, FP has written back still insisting Norton Finance are responsible for the sale of the PPI. I've never had a discussion with Norton regarding PPI, but FP has enclosed a form filled in by Norton and sent to FP, with a PPI box ticked.

 

What I'm not sure about is...... Does FP pay the single premium to Norton, but keep the interest that is lumped on the main loan or do they pay the insurer direct?

 

Have they completely ignored (or failed to understand) the above ruling/precedent or is it another stalling tactic?

 

Either way, I have never received a policy document from FP, Norton or the actual insurer and they are all complicit in mis-selling the policy as they have deliberately provided the least amount of info possible!

 

When I write back with my LBA, how should I tackle them with the Norton issue. Is worth making that point and stating I don't care who is to blame and ultimately FP provided the loan, and when they called me it was them that went through the demands and needs, and subsequently taken the premiums!

[Braveheart Bear]

Afternoon Bog.

Thanks for your support with my claim.

 

Looking at the query you have concerning the Norton issue, I would suggest the following point of contention.

 

When you took out the loan, including the premium for your PPI, was this completed over the phone with a single party, namely Firstplus? Assuming your telephone conversation with Firstplus included the Loan and PPI, and payment was made prior to you receiving any PPI policy, then your claim is with Firstplus as they are the party who sold you the policy.

 

Similar to purchasing a Television from Comet, the fact that it is a Sony is irrelevant, you bought it from Comet, they are the people your contract is with.

 

Go back to them and good luck.

[Goldlady]

I think the Norton thing is a smokescreen as we had a similar letter saying that the broker/intermediary was not regulated blah blah. Before I had even started to draft the reply First Plus wrote again offering the refund.

 

BTW my friends' refund cheque arrived today - their monthly payments have gone down by £300 and we are having a party tomorrow:D

[Bog]

Hmmm.....

 

I've received a letter today from the complaints exec who has, so far, been respoding to my letters.

 

He say's that he has just downloaded the conversations, but not yet listened to them and that he needs more time..... and that he will respond by the 4th June !!!!!

 

How long does it take to listen to a tape!

 

FP are definatly stalling (or they don't read the letters properly!) My LBA gave them until the 14th May.

 

I'm not going to play their games. If I do do recieve a response by 14th May (LBA 14 days), I will comence court action and report them to the FOS, FSA & OFT.

 

Perhaps they think I will go away (and if anyone at FP is reading this - I won't and nor will the others on this forum)

 

 

 

Time to get tough!

[alanalana]

Hello bog,

 

looks like you're getting the same delaying tactics as I have. Stick to your deadlines ( the Legal ones ) and then commence battle.

 

I have opted for the ICO and probably the FOS but Court is good, after all they are breaking the law!!

 

good luck

 

aa

[Bog]

Success

 

Just got a letter from First Plus stating they have listened to the call transcripts and they are not happy with the way the PPI was sold and therefore up holding my complaint. They will be refund the premium and all interest paid to date!

 

This is for my second loan, they (FP) refered the first loan to Norton finance (The broker who introduced me to FP) when I first complained.

 

Norton wrote and said they would investigate, but I've not heard anything so far. I think they have to give in and refund the PPI as FP descision makes their position untenable .

[hellhasnofury]

Success

 

Just got a letter from First Plus stating they have listened to the call transcripts and they are not happy with the way the PPI was sold and therefore up holding my complaint. They will be refund the premium and all interest paid to date!

 

This is for my second loan, they (FP) refered the first loan to Norton finance (The broker who introduced me to FP) when I first complained.

 

Norton wrote and said they would investigate, but I've not heard anything so far. I think they have to give in and refund the PPI as FP descision makes their position untenable .

 

Hello Bog,

 

Excellent news and very well done.

 

Keep at them regarding the first loan, there would have obviously been selling on a commission basis, so they are both as guilty as each other, They do like to line each others pockets to make large sums of profit from unsuspecting customers:rolleyes:

 

Have a look in the ppi bundle sticky, there is a court case precedent regarding this matter Hurstang v This is about the responsibily off commission based selling;)

[alanalana]

Well done bog,

 

another one bites the dust:D enjoy the moment.

 

regards

aa

[Goldlady]

So pleased for you bog:D Happy days.

 

I am about to write to FP as whilst they have recalculated my friends' loan as if the PPI never existed and sent them a refund they have done this behind the scenes and their loan record on the 'screen' that the telesales staff see still shows arrears and late payments, as does their credit record. Don't know if you had any similar problems but just thought I would mention that they didn't do the job properly;)

[Braveheart Bear]

Superb news Bog, seems I am a couple of weeks behind you, fingers crossed.

 

Keep badgering them for a finite resolution, you need all the t's crossing and the i's dotting.

 

Here's a question - have you considered demanding your Credit Files to be corrected to refer to the new Loan Amounts and New Monthly Payments? I imagine the reduced loan and payments will increase your credit score. not that we'll be borrowing from these kind of people again anyway.....

[Bog]

Humph!!!

 

It' looks like I'm going to have to start legal proceedings against First Plus after all!

 

It's been nearly 4 weeks since James Osbourn at FP sent me a letter saying they will refund the PPI in full and I still don't have my cheque

 

I chased it 2 weeks ago and James said they are having trouble calculating the correct amount!

[Goldlady]

They could just be rather busy. Perhaps their calculators are showing such a huge amount owed to you that they are getting a mathematician to check it:D. If they have said they will refund it I don't think they will go back on that.