DCA chasing English CC debt in France

[kev100]

Got the latest letter ..

 

Not the one I was expecting, thought it would have come from their solicitors again, but came from CQ direct.

 

I took out values, but they offered me to pay less than 100 quid per month, or if I pay within 3 months would reduce the amount from £9k to less than £7k

 

Roll on the next letter ..

 

[dannyboy660]

I've never had any dealings with CQ, but I would imagine this is just a standard automated letter that everyone gets??

[gerona]

Good Morning

 

There CCA time limit must be up now if you posted on 11th Feb so they can't do anything anyhow until they produce the document.

 

What's the relevance of Scottish lawyer and juridrisction?

I have seen somewhere a follow up letter once the CCA request time limit is up. If you want it I'll hunt around and post it for you - that's if you can be bothered to correspond with them.

[ODC]

What's the relevance of Scottish lawyer and juridrisction?

I have seen somewhere a follow up letter once the CCA request time limit is up. If you want it I'll hunt around and post it for you - that's if you can be bothered to correspond with them.

They seem to think that if you dont live in England or Wales then you must live in Scotland. As far as I am aware Scottish Law only has jurisdiction in Scotland. Of course Capquest may know something the rest of us dont. The next letter will be from their 'Scottish' Lawyers. Nolans of Kirkintilloch.

[gerona]

I always thought DCA lived in their own little world

[kev100]

Ok, I think I will continue the course of action I have been using

 

Just wait and see what comes next, and not respond in any way .. the still have no confirmation that I live at the address they send the letters to.

[kev100]

Good Morning

 

There CCA time limit must be up now if you posted on 11th Feb so they can't do anything anyhow until they produce the document.

 

What's the relevance of Scottish lawyer and juridrisction?

I have seen somewhere a follow up letter once the CCA request time limit is up. If you want it I'll hunt around and post it for you - that's if you can be bothered to correspond with them.

 

 

I didnt send a CCA yet, in fact I have not responded once to any of their letters so they still have no confirmation that I am living at that address.

 

I think I will only send a CCA when absolutely necessary and after being advised to do so from the guys in the know here ..

[gerona]

Good Morning Kev

 

yes I would see what the guys on here recommend. My situation is a bit different because I have always been in contact with my creditors and I gave them a post box address and not my home address.

[Taxedtothehilt]

This is a fascinating thread (says this newcomer!)

I would like to point out that I was sent a County Court Summons from a UK County Court to my address in Europe. To justify this the Solicitors had included the following;

The High Court of England and Wales has power under the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgements Act 1982 to hear this claim and that no p[roceedings are pending between the parties in Scotland Northern Ireland or another convention territory of any contracting state as defined by Section 1 (3) of the Act

 

Not quite sure what this means but it appears to say an English creditor can issue proceedings for a UK debt to an address in Europe.

 

Does this mean that,assuming I cannot get to the court hearing, judgment would be entered in my absence and an Euopean Enforcement Order would follow?

 

I have also had an interesting dealing with a European DCA appointed by the English DCA - but that maybe better under another topic

 

Waiting to hear what the CAG experts think !

[gerona]

Taxedtothehilt

hello and welcome to CAG

Yes I had court papers sent to my PO box address in Spain and it had nearly the same wording on as yours except it said "this Court" not high court.

I admitted liability in full - stupid thing to do but I hadn't found this forum. That was 2 years ago and nothing has ever been done with the claim. The claim is stayed - I've no idea why.

[Taxedtothehilt]

If I am not the only one this has happened to does this not go against many of the earlier posts that seemed to say that if you were no longer resident in the Uk and had no UK address you could not have a CCJ enetered against you?

[dannyboy660]

If I am not the only one this has happened to does this not go against many of the earlier posts that seemed to say that if you were no longer resident in the Uk and had no UK address you could not have a CCJ enetered against you?

 

You are not the only one, just one of the unlucky ones, methinks.

 

One of the first things you'll find when going through the County Court claim procedures is that the defendant must be resident in England or Wales http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex301.pdf small claims, and as far as I can see that applies to other tracks too http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex305_e0907.pdf but all that is soon to change. Scotland have their own procedures. DCA's/Creditors will issue very convincing documents to some people to get an admission as gerona can verify. The High Court however, is a completely different thing and if they become involved, then you are into the realms of cross border bankruptcy

 

"Under the provisions of section 265 (1) of The Insolvency Act 1986 you are able to petition for bankruptcy if you are either:

 

(a) domiciled in England and Wales,

 

(b) personally present in England and Wales on the day on which the petition is presented, or

 

at any time in the period of 3 years ending with that day -

 

(i) have been ordinarily resident, or has had a place of residence, in England and Wales, or

 

(ii) have carried on business in England and Wales.

 

However, you need to be aware that Article 3 of the EC Regulation on Insolvency Proceedings 2000 is applied to and can override the provisions of section 265(1) IA86. Therefore if your centre of main interest is within another EU member state (apart from Denmark) the provisions of section 265(1) IA86 would not apply to you and the English court would be limited in their jurisdiction to open bankruptcy proceedings. You may wish to contact the High Court for information as to whether they would be able to make the bankruptcy order in your case. The telephone number for the High Court is +44(0)20 7947 6000.

 

If you do not live in England or Wales, you must present your bankruptcy petition in the High Court. The bankruptcy petition must be presented either by yourself in person, or an agent acting on your behalf, eg a solicitor. If you appoint an agent to act on your behalf, you may need to grant them power of attorney - please contact the High Court for further details. Following the making of a bankruptcy order, you will need to provide information to the Official Receiver and complete a booklet and other documents, as well as possibly attending for an interview. Unfortunately, these documents cannot be completed before a bankruptcy order is made, and you cannot pre-book an appointment. However, if you explain your circumstances to the Official Receiver, ie you are only in the country for a limited period, he will try to fix an appointment for you as soon as possible. If you appoint an agent to act on your behalf under a power of attorney, that agent could be required to attend for interview at the Official Receiver's office on your behalf.

 

Any assets in any part of the world fall into your bankruptcy estate. However, the trustee may encounter problems selling foreign assets if he is not 'recognised' in a foreign jurisdiction as having power to sell them. The trustee may require co-operation from you and also, he may need to apply for a court order in the foreign country to deal with the asset.

 

The Insolvency Service does produce a range of information leaflets regarding bankruptcy, which are available on our website (www.insolvency.gov.uk under 'Our information leaflets/booklets' as follows:

 

Dealing with Debt - How to petition for your own bankruptcy : Information on how to make yourself bankrupt

 

A Guide to Bankruptcy : This guide tells you what happens if you are made bankrupt in England and Wales and about some of the alternatives to bankruptcy

 

Can my Bankruptcy be cancelled : Information on how the court may annul (cancel) your bankruptcy order

 

What will happen to my home : Information on your home when bankruptcy occurs

 

When will my bankruptcy end : Information on discharge from bankruptcy

 

What will happen to my bank account: Information on banking facilities when bankruptcy occurs

 

What happens when you are interviewed by the Official Receivers? : Information for bankrupts and directors of companies in compulsory liquidation about the work of the Official Receiver

 

I hope this is helpful.

The Insolvency Service is constantly trying to improve the quality of its service, and therefore we would like to ask you to spare a few moments of your time to complete a customer comment card which is available at Customer Comments Card . Your opinions will help us to improve the service which we provide to you. May I thank you in advance for your co-operation.

Yours sincerely

 

Central Enquiry Line Officer

Technical Section

The Insolvency Service

21 Bloomsbury Street

London

WC1B 3QW

DX: 120875 Bloomsbury 6DX

Tel: 020 7291 6895

Fax: 020 7291 6892"

 

I don't know anything much about the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgements Act 1982 but I'm willing to wager there will be something in there which makes allowances for the leglislation which has been passed at European level since 1982, including all the earlier links in this thread. This is where one of the legal experts could step in and clarify things, but there are so many different aspects to each individual case it is a minefield....there are magic words to consider such as "3 years", "main centre of interests" and "uncontested".

 

As for the issue of service of documents, in the UK it is usual to use the Royal Snail, but whilst resident in France the French civil law says you have a legal obligation to respond to documents served to you in person by a 'Hussier' (as someone pointed out earlier), but it doesn't mention the Snail. So is that a valid form of defence??

 

It's complicated stuff....far too complex for comfort really, but as in the UK a lot will depend on if you have grounds to defend, and ultimately on how co-operative you intend to be.

 

You could try your own thread with your own situation if you like, but be warned there DCA's reading these threads so nothing too specific, and responses to overseas questions can be a bit a patchy sometimes. Brits don't like to see others leaving the sinking the ship and getting on.

 

All the best.

[gerona]

It's so complicated!!

 

Maybe there is somebody who knows the rules but as you say db660 everybody circumstances are different. If this happened to me again I would DEFEND DEFEND DEFEND

[kev100]

I would just like to add that everything that I have read about cross border claims always uses the word "uncontested", as far as I see as soon as its contested then it reverts back to the UK courts and the foreign courts have no power to act.

 

But as Dannyboy has mentioned this is a very complicated situation, and probably costly to the DCA's, especially if they are not 100% sure they will get judgement.

 

You are welcome to continue to stay in this thread, I think that your situation is relevant to the contents and would be easier to keep track of information without repeating it.

[dannyboy660]

After posting yesterday I later noticed http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/133975-income-tax-ni-owed.html had already been started.

 

Whilst I don't mind having a crack at unsecured 'not very serious consequences' debt, I'm not at all confident when it comes to Tax and N.I., especially as the High Court may already be involved.

 

I wish you all the very best, but that one is way out of my depth.

[Taxedtothehilt]

Hello Dannyboy. Thanks for your advices. Tha tax thing is only with HMRC not a Court so guess I will have to wait and see. And the CCJ stuff is still a Couty Court matter not High Court

[kev100]

Ok .. I have received the latest letter ..

 

It appears I am now personally being dealt with by the managing director no less and have been specially selected for a one time offer ... yea right ...

 

It is a "project" that good old Mike Daniels (that's the managing director that I am now on special terms with has selected me for.

 

so we have gone from

 

1, QC demanding £9k

 

2, HL solicitors threatening legal action

 

3, Back to QC to give me an offer of £7k or legal action will commence on ..... oh wait that date has already passed ..

 

4, Now Mike (thats what I will call him from now because I am special to him) has offered me a plan that will bring the claim down to below £6k

 

If they keep this up they will be paying me soon

 

Happy days

 

[gerona]

This letter has made me laugh so much - are they for real. It sounds like something you get over the internet telling you have won hundreds of thousands.

Don't be tempted by this wonderful offer because I think your in the running to be entered into the prize draw for a one and only 1st prize - a Ferrari, your mortgage paid for a year, a substantial cash prize. Please can I be entered :lol:

[kev100]

This letter has made me laugh so much - are they for real. It sounds like something you get over the internet telling you have won hundreds of thousands.

Don't be tempted by this wonderful offer because I think your in the running to be entered into the prize draw for a one and only 1st prize - a Ferrari, your mortgage paid for a year, a substantial cash prize. Please can I be entered :lol:

 

 

Yep .. would be nice ...

 

So how are you getting on with your claims ?..

[gerona]

Hi Kev

I'm just doing the waiting game now.

I sent CCA request to1st credit and not had anything back so I'm happy to keep paying £9 per month for 60 years.

My major concern was the natwest one that has been converted into euros and I had a couple of Spanish letters a couple of years ago. Well I have stopped paying them now. They haven't bothered to contact me for 2 years - nobody wants to take the payment from me. I'm sure they'll contact me pretty soon when they don't receive any money.

The debt is in dispute - originally I was really worried but the forum has given me so much confidence. I've also sent of the SAR but once again I've heard nothing.

[gerona]

Do you think the guest could be your friend Mike

[kev100]

Do you think the guest could be your friend Mike

 

Which guest ?..

 

and good luck with everything and keep me posted on any news that may be helpful to me ..

[InnocentMan_2008]

Which guest ?..

 

and good luck with everything and keep me posted on any news that may be helpful to me ..

 

Whats happend at the end? I am very much interested in this post. Thank God for those who runs the forum and special thanks to DannyBoy. I have been following up with all the posts in this threads. Keep us posted with your current situation.

[gerona]

Nothing has happened on my accounts. I have sent my CCA requests and S.A.R. but had no replies. I will just wait it out now.

[kev100]

Just waiting for the next letter after the one I posted last week, I am another threatening legal action again next time ..