Allied inrenational credit

[rendrag65]

I'm having problems with these people (Allied International Credit), as have others from what I read. On Tuesday the 15 jan 08 I recieved a couple of text thingies from them so phone them up. Was told I hadn't made a payment for two month, dispite talking to a guy last week who said the same but then found my payments and confirmed that I had paid and should continue to do so. I had a heated discussion with the guy in which he said "why would I lie". I told him that one of them was, as I had proof (bank statement) showing the payments and confirmed with him AIC's bank details. He said I would need to send copies of the bank statements to them so that he could locate the payments. I said I would but after thinking about it for a while thought why the hell should I waste my time to help them with their indequate data management.

Couple of questions;

1/ Should I send copies of bank statements to them.

2/ Should I continue to make monthly payments as agreed.

3/ Should I continue to pay but not discuss with them further until they decide to take court action against me for not paying but in court prove that I have paid. Or

4/ Stop payments and send cca request to them and await reply.

 

 

Thoughts on this would be appriciated.

[Curlyben]

First NEVER talk to these "people" on the phone as they will try and get you to agree to anything.

 

Before you even think about making any sort of acknowledgement or payment to a DCA you MUST ensure that they have the LEGAL right to collect the debt.

This is achieved by requesting a copy of the Signed, Executed Credit Agreement via a Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request.

There is a template letter to be found here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

Letter N.

Is it important to start the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in Big Bold letters.

 

It is best to send this request via recorded/special delivery as there are some important deadlines to observe.

 

After 12 WORKING days the "debt" is in default and stays that way until the request is complied with.

If a FURTHER month passes then the DCA has committed a summary criminal offence and the matter should be referred to Trading Standards for action once the DCA continues to demand payment.

 

I hope this clarifies some things.

[rendrag65]

Does help, cheers will sort cca request today and cancel standing order.

Cheers

[Curlyben]

Hold fire on cancelling the SO until they default on your request, at 12 WORKING days.

[rendrag65]

Ok will do. next payment due out of wifes bank acc' on 31 jan. Cheers

[rendrag65]

Hi. Have posted last week when AIC said I wasn't paying them dispite me having bank statements saying that I have.

Any way sent off cca today with £1 PO. Recorded delivery.

Got a phone call this morning for a company calling themselves RED KNIGHT with an address the same as AIC Head pffice in basingstoke. I was told that AIC was their parent company. THis lady said my file had been sent to them by AIC due to non payment. I went through the same discussions as before stating that I was paying regularly and that I would acccept telephones for this company. She said They where a telephone based company anf needed to call people. I said I won't accept telephone calls under any circumstances. She also asked for proof of payment ie photo copied bank statement.

Got caught out by this and said I'd send them.

What should I do?

Send the copies of statements or do nothing until I recieve CCA and take it from there.

Thoughts as ever ould be appriciated.

Pat

[ScarletPimpernel]

What should you do:

 

1. Don't phone them - ever.

 

2. If they call you, don't talk to them - ever.

 

3. Don't send them anything except a letter pointing out that you have made a formal request pursuant to s.78 of the CCA 1974, and that you have disputed the debt since it has already been paid. Draw their attention to the OFT guidance, which considers it unfair practivce for them not to suspend collection activity whilst a dispute is unresolved, as is ignoring claims that a debt has been settled. Send the telephone harassment letter at the same time.

[Edz11]

When did you send off the CCA request?

 

One poster on here got the "we're a telephone based company" line from a caller. His response was "we're a letter based household - so tough".

[rendrag65]

CCa request was today, so wait and see what happens in 12 days.

I like the "we're a letter based house hold", will definitely use that if I make the mistake of speaking to them.

Cheers for all replies.

Pat

[BambiGirl]

I cant stand this company . I dealt with the rudest man when negotiating my debt. He told me I shouldnt have borrowed any money if I was EVER going to be in the position not pay it back I WAS ON THE PHONE WITH HIM TRYING TO REACH A SETTLEMENT FIGURE TO CLEAR IT, I had to put the phone down as I was starting to say the 'F' word in every sentence. Anyway that was years ago... here's whats happened since...

 

I paid my debt to them back in April 2005. They gave me a settlement figure making me a saving of just over £500. I heard from them again in October 2006 demanding the £500. I wrote to them explaining the situation and enclosing THEIR NOTE OF SATISFACTION and asked for a response - nothing. I heard from them again around 8 months later by telephone, I spoke to them this time, again requesting the £500. I explained the situation, informed them of the person I wrote to previously with the letter of satisfaction and was told it was probably due to an admin error and they would sort it, again I asked for written confirmation that this had been done. They rang today asking for a call back URGENTLY - I have ignored them so far.

 

I just cant believe this debt is settled (letter of satisfaction in my hand), they let more than a year pass then demand this £500 then let months pass and get in touch again etc etc.

 

Just wondered if anyone else has experienced this or similar from these idiots or if there are any suggestions as to the relevant course of action before I really do blow my top with them.

[dpick]

I cant stand this company . I dealt with the rudest man when negotiating my debt. He told me I shouldnt have borrowed any money if I was EVER going to be in the position not pay it back I WAS ON THE PHONE WITH HIM TRYING TO REACH A SETTLEMENT FIGURE TO CLEAR IT, I had to put the phone down as I was starting to say the 'F' word in every sentence. Anyway that was years ago... here's whats happened since...

 

I paid my debt to them back in April 2005. They gave me a settlement figure making me a saving of just over £500. I heard from them again in October 2006 demanding the £500. I wrote to them explaining the situation and enclosing THEIR NOTE OF SATISFACTION and asked for a response - nothing. I heard from them again around 8 months later by telephone, I spoke to them this time, again requesting the £500. I explained the situation, informed them of the person I wrote to previously with the letter of satisfaction and was told it was probably due to an admin error and they would sort it, again I asked for written confirmation that this had been done. They rang today asking for a call back URGENTLY - I have ignored them so far.

 

I just cant believe this debt is settled (letter of satisfaction in my hand), they let more than a year pass then demand this £500 then let months pass and get in touch again etc etc.

 

Just wondered if anyone else has experienced this or similar from these idiots or if there are any suggestions as to the relevant course of action before I really do blow my top with them.

 

They are just hoping that you did not keep the letter of satisfaction. You know no proof of payment payup or else tactics.

 

all the best dpick:)

[rendrag65]

Jan 25th Recieved voice mail from red knight, Attached to AIC they've now got my file. Do I have to send another cca to them as well as the one already sent AIC who the rep said was their parent company. Do I need to send copies of bank statements showing I've paid them or should I let them sort it out until I hear back from them regarding CCA or lack there of and then stop paying. Yes I'm getting confused with all this.

Thoughts as usual would be appriciated.

[rendrag65]

Jan 25th Recieved voice mail from red knight, Attached to AIC they've now got my file. Do I have to send another cca to them as well as the one already sent AIC who the rep said was their parent company. Do I need to send copies of bank statements showing I've paid them or should I let them sort it out until I hear back from them regarding CCA or lack there of and then stop paying. Yes I'm getting confused with all this.

Thoughts as usual would be appriciated.

[rendrag65]

Jan 25th Recieved voice mail from red knight, Attached to AIC they've now got my file (apparently). Do I have to send another cca to them as well as the one already sent AIC (this will be in default on Jan 30th if nothing is recieved) who the rep said was their parent company. Do I need to send copies of bank statements (showing I've paid them as they are saying I have not or should I let them sort it out and find the lost payments in their account department somewhere!), or wait until I hear back from AIC regarding CCA or lack there of and then stop paying. Yes I'm getting confused with all this.

Thoughts as usual would be appriciated.

[ODC]

You do not need to CCA Red Knight. You have already CCAed AIC thus putting the debt in dispute. AIC have been very naughty in passing on a debt which is in dispute. Once the 12 working days are up STOP all payments. This should help focus their minds

[Curlyben]

Throw this at Red Knight:

 

Edit as needed

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be

resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, *Subject Access request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

*- Delete as needed

Enjoy

[rendrag65]

I got the first voice mail from red knight was 18th jan the same day as I posted cca by recorded delivery does this make any difference?

[ODC]

I got the first voice mail from red knight was 18th jan the same day as I posted cca by recorded delivery does this make any difference?

None whatsoever. You have made a legal request off AIC. Just because they are idiots and passed a disputed debt does not relieve them of their legal obligations

[pete16]

I, too was involved with AIC last year, and still am. I got into debt when my wife's teaching contract was not renewed due to school closures, so there was not even redundancy to settle the debts with. I also had income reductions, but the point is we got into debt with three credit cards.

 

AIC took over one (Amex), and did the usual stuff everybody else experienced, ncluding continual phone calls to my workplace (several each day). I wrote a letter telling them I would communicated by letter only. I also CCAd them, and offered payment terms. After over a month I informed them that they had committed a criminal offence and they phoned me and laughed at me. However shortly after I received a letter accepting my payment offer which I have been meeting by Standing Order every month.

 

I struggled to pay the debt on my Mint card and the direct debit that I was paying didn't even cover the interest and various penalty charges so my debt was increasing. I stopped ther direct debit to pay manually and every month I was charged a late payment fee and over-limit fee because I get paid 4 days after the required payment date.

 

This was passed to Triton with whom I was making a payment agreement, and I then received a letter from AIC. Apparently the debt has been passed to them. I CCAd them on this one on 17th January, and they reponded by providing me with an alternative address from which to ask for the CCA - it is a CCA Services address in Southend On Sea.

 

Can they do this? It is a different tack to their usual response (none at all), but I believe that they are obliged to supply the CCA themselves, not redirect me. I don't mind doing what they ask, but they have now threatened immediate legal action so I intend to press them for the CCA which I believe is my legal right.

 

Am I correct, or must I contact the address they have provided. They have continually refused my £200/month offer for a £3,000 debt so I am not trying to avoid payment. I just can't afford the whole lot at once.

[Edz11]

This is where it gets, not complicated, but confusing, if you aren't careful.

 

If they're managing the debt they are agents for the creditor and everything that needs to be legally done needs to be done to the creditor - not the agent. There are a couple of references in the CCA to "agent" but that term is only specifically applied in certain circumstances and carries certain duties. Debt collection isn't one of them. Unless, they've flogged the debt. In which case the debt collector is then the creditor and it is them you must CCA rather than the original creditor.

 

How can you tell the difference? Well, that's a bloody good question. If the debt has been flogged then you should be sent notices by the seller and buyer saying goodbye and hello. But, not getting that is no guarantee that it wasn't sent. I did see a mention on a site a couple of weeks ago when it was revealed how much correspondence the Courts service sent out that was never received. A very good indication is if they take you to court. They can't unless they are the creditor. Debt managers/collectors can take you to court if they don't own it but they nust be joined in the action by the creditor.

 

So - what would I do if I were you? CCA the original creditors on each of your three cards. Send it registered post with no signatures and postal orders only. Send copy letters to the DCA's so they know what you've done. Send it to their registered address or the last available on your statement. If you have already CCA'd the original creditor then say which one and the date they got your request. They should not telephone you at work and if that starts again then it's time for the harrassment letter.

[ODC]

AIC are obliged under S175

of the CCA to pass your request on to the original creditor

 

175. Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under a regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment,

to him forthwith.

[Edz11]

I read it like that initially - but it says "where under this act...deemed... as agent"

 

If you look at the Act there are only a few circumstances where someone can be deemed - such as S57(3) S69(6). I'm afraid that S77 onwards doesn't meet that requirement. I wish it did!

 

Please convince me I'm wrong as I realy would like to be...

[ODC]

It would be my understanding that by demanding the money AIC are acting as agents for the OC. Im no expert and stand to be corrected.

[rendrag65]

I never recieved a letter from aic stating they had bought the debt. How do I find out who owns it. Origianally it was a personal loan with llyods tsb years ago and no longer have details. Should I still wait for aic to respond/default on cca request and ignore red knight

, or try writing to lloyds to ask who owns the debt?

[Edz11]

I'm certain I'm right (unfortunately) but it's amazing what a decent glass of Merlot or two can do for the brain cells...

 

The merlot helped me reach this conclusion;

Rendrag - I would CCA anyone who asks for payment. I would say that the CCA request gives them 12 working days to provide it. I would then say that they will be aware that only an absolute assignee can start sole proceedings to enforce the alleged debt in court. If they are the absolute assignee then the CCA applies to them as they meet the defintion of "creditor" under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

I would then point out that if they are not the absolute assignee then they cannot commence proceedings on their own as they must be joined by the "creditor" as defined in the Act. Ask who the "creditor" is as defined by the Act and for the DCA to return your £1 so you can send your CCA request to them.

 

That way they are caught either way...

 

I'd wait and see what aic come up with by way of a reply.