Capquest in Ireland

[ODC]

Because you are in the Republic of Ireland different harassment laws apply. The simplest thing to do is ignore these barstewards. If they ring leave the phone off the hook. They are paying for the call and will soon get the message. Write to them and DEMAND a copy of their complaints procedure. For the sake of a few quid a CAG email address is a good way to correspond with them. (No I am not on commision from the site owners:D )

 

Tell your wife not to give these people any information. Good on her for giving them a false mobile number. You do not have to answer any of their questions. In fact you do not even have to speak to them on the phone.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I see from the Irish government information website that DCA harassment comes under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997*. s.11 of the Act states that it is an offence to demand payment of a debt in a way designed to alarm, distress or humiliate.

 

Why not get your wife to answer the phone in Gaelic, for added DCA irritation?

 

 

 

 

*I am hoping they'll introduce the 'Non-Fatal Offences Against The Neighbours' Act 2008, which will outlaw driving a ROI-registered Mercedes 600 or huge 4x4 on NI motorways in the style of a tractor.

[ODC]

Why not get your wife to answer the phone in Gaelic, for added DCA irritation?

 

Excellent idea. After all Gaelic has equal parity to English in the republic. Considering Thames can barely speak English this would really F*** them up

[ScarletPimpernel]

I'm sure a phrase such as "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries", rendered in Gaelic, would meet the case.

[Apip]

These guys don't get the message do they. They keep calling and when they say who it is I just place the phone on the kitchen table and leave it, after a whil I go back, and a couple of times they have still been there waiting!!!!! Getting a bit board with it now, as I have other calls coming in and I find myself not answering the phone. But I guess they will stop eventualy..... HOPE

[ODC]

Hit them with this

 

PHRASE: Eist moran agus can beagan!

 

PRONOUNCED: aisht more-on og-us con byug-on

 

MEANING: Hear much and say little!

 

[Apip]

Evening all,

 

Update for you.

 

River Rats were calling twice a day, but we now have that down to once every two or three day.

Andrew (River Rat tw*t) Is now my freind. On the voice mails he has been leaving me, he would now like to help me and is upset that I have not returned his calls.. Ahhhhhhh.

 

So on that one, I'm just leaving alone and waiting until they get board.

 

On the capquest, I am delighted to say that they have no feck'ed off. Great I know, but unfortunatly they have been replaced by BlueStone Law.

 

I just got a call on my mobile. Please read the following with a typical american call center voice.. " Hi this is Kim, and I'm calling you today from Bluestone Law regarding your HSBC loan that came in to our office today. I'd really like to talk to you, and you can catch me on 0031********"

 

So, I am Guesing that Capquest (after reciving my request for CCA) realized that they do not have a leg to stand on and sold the debt onto BlueStone??

 

I've had a quick look on their website Bluestone Law International and see that they specialize in "collecting debts which originate in one country and require collection in another."

 

Now do I take it I just keep ignoring these as well?

 

I'm going to have more read up about the company, but just wondered if any one here knows of BlueStone.

 

Thanks,

 

Phil

[ScarletPimpernel]

Looking at Bluestone's website, it seems more likely that Crapquest have given up and HSBC have now passed it to Bluestone. It seems that HSBC remain in default of your CCA request, so they can't enforce legally.

[Docman]

I've also had a look at Bluestone. Wow! THREE lawyers (inc the CEO). They might almost be big enough to join the DCAs club.

 

Not much going on in Europe & the UK though. Perhaps because of the CCA and our anti-harassment laws?

[Apip]

Update and advice please.

 

River Rats have given in. Not had a call in a couple of weeks now. Which is good as can now answer the home phone.

 

ON the other one, after about 10 calls from my new US of A freinds at Bluestone (all of which were left to go to voice mail) I recived a letter from them the other day, which makes interesting reading.

 

Its the usuall opening paragrph, "tried to contact you blah blah"

 

The second paragraph "If you fail to respond within 15 days this matter will be refered to a collectio agent in you country for local recovery action, including listing this debt with credit agents and other authorities in your country. In addition a lawsuit, which will include all permissible interest, collection costs, court costs, and all sanctions permited by local law, may be brought agaist you by our local country agent"

 

Now again, there seams to be a lot of mention about how the 'may' do this and 'may' do that.

 

And also you wpould have thought if they did have a 'local agent' then he/she/they would be dealing with this already!

 

Now my question is do I keep ignoring, or do I send them a request for a CCA. Which I did to Crapquest relating to this debt, and it made them pass it on.

 

Also is there any way that a debt collector or balif could turn up at the door. Bit worried

 

Thanks,

 

Phil

[ODC]

Did Capquest pass the debt on to this Bluestone crowd or is that another debt altogether

[ScarletPimpernel]

It's clearly a template letter full of the usual pish and wind - just with a SPAM flavour - they obviously don't have a clue about either UK or ROI.

 

Points to note:

 

1. the HSBC loan agreement will be subject to English law

2. notwithstanding 1 above, HSBC/Crapquest are in criminal default of a CCA request, and so the alleged debt is unenforceable and they should not be making demands for payment

3. notwithstanding 1 & 2 above, the Irish courts have no jurisdiction (unless there's some agreement I'm unaware of)

4. under UK jurisdiction, their threats are unlawful (because of the CCA default), and in breach of the OFT guidance

5. HSBC and Capquest, as original creditor and equitable assignee, have third party responsibility for Bluestone's actions under the OFT guidance

 

It seems to me that you have two options:

 

a. (i) Slap Bluestone back with a feck off letter. It might be fun to include a threat to report them to their local Bar Society, and some questions about the UK system that will demonstrate their lack of knowledge.

(ii) Make a formal complaint to HSBC & Crapquest, escalating it to FOS later.

(iii) Make a formal complaint to the relevant Irish authorities.

b. Wait and see what their next move is. My guess is that it will be more letters - they won't want to dilute their fees by passing it to O'Robinson, Way or whoever just yet.

 

 

Edited to add: I've just had a quick look at the Irish Consumer Protection Act 2007, which includes just about everything in our own OFT Guidance. The difference is that in ROI they are 'unfair commercial practices' and unlawful. Worth a look.

 

I've also discovered that a CCJ issued in UK can be enforced in ROI, but only by the High Court. Apparently it's expensive, and the Irish High Court have to be satisfied that the original (UK) process was all followed correctly - including proof that the claim was properly served. Given that a UK claim can't be served on you in ROI, and a loan subject to English law can't be enforced in ROI, HSBC, Crapquest et al are stuffed.

[ODC]

Good answer SP. I was thinking along similar lines. Of course Bluestone will probably come back with the same old spiel that MBNA used to spout about American Law.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Of course Bluestone will probably come back with the same old spiel that MBNA used to spout about American Law.

 

 

Indeed. As Churchill said: "The Americans will always do the right thing - after they have tried everything else."

 

I think it could be fun to play with them. I'd start by asking them to clarify whether they are writing as lawyers, in which case they should provide details of their EU accreditation to practice law; in the alternative, if they are writing as a DCA, then to provide their consumer credit licence number, since that is a prerequisite to undertake any debt collection activity in the UK - I'm sure there's an Irish equivalent, too.

[ODC]

You like myself have a twisted mind. Still its no better than DCAs deserve.

[Docman]

Agree totally guys. I'm not sure of the details but I think an Irish court (or any other in the EU for that matter) will only intervene to help another COURT enforce a judgment. In other words, HSBC et al would have to get an order from an English court first of all. Not likely.

I also favour letting our American cousins have a taste of their own medicine. I know the local Bar Association might be a useful starting point. But how about the equivalent of our own Trading Standards? The American version appears to be State based under the title of 'Consumer Affairs'. The only difference is that they appear to use their teeth, especially when one of their own sullies the name of the good old US of A.

[ScarletPimpernel]

The Better Business Bureau is the usual US equivalent of our Trading Standards. The Bar Associations tend to be run by lawyers for lawyers (Law Society, anyone?), but in Maryland, where these jokers are based, there is an 'Attorney Grievance Commission', which is part of the court system, which deals with complaints.

 

As far as the court in ROI is concerned, as I understand it, in order for HSBC and Capquest, who appear to have an equitable assignment, to get an Irish court to do anything, they would first have to get a CCJ in an English court - which they can't do.

[Apip]

Hello there one and all.

 

Hope all is well and good.

 

For me, peachy. We just had our 2nd child last week. A little lad. So now I have the Gentleman's Family.

 

On the debt front. My new freinds in the US of A gave in eventually. Unfortunatly I never acually spoke to them as their number came up on my mobile, so I just let it run to voice mail. Shame as they sounded really plesent and were there "to help me". Very nice of them.

 

I know that they have given up as the calls stopped and I got a letter from a new crowd. Mason Hayes+Curran

 

They are based here in Ireland, just down the road from me. Which I don't like. (Bring back the Americans) Their letter is the usual I have to pay them the full amount by post. And that their client (HSBC) has instructed them to issue legal proceeding with a view to securing judgment! Once the judgment has issued , it will be published in the trade gazettes and the matter may then be placed in the hands of the sheriff for seizure.

 

Now I'm guessing from my point I just take the stand of ingnore the letters. But my worry is they are based in Dublin, and does this change the situation. Or is it still a case that when I sent the CCA to Capquest when it was with them and they did not reply, that HSBC do not have a leg to stand on. Or do I have to issue another CCA to this lot, Mason Hayes Curran. Who acualy look more like a solicitor than a DCA. But maybe thats wheat they want me to think....

 

Many thanks in advance,

[ODC]

As Crapquest are in default of your CCA request send this to your neighbours

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

 

 

 

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Subject Access request and have also breached s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I wonder if it might be worth adapting the letter to reflect the fact that the alleged contract is subject to English law:

 

Dear Mickeys

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxx, the content of which is noted.

 

You will be aware that the alleged contract your client refers to relies upon English law. Your clients remain in default of a formal request, made on (date), pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. It should not be necessary to remind a firm of solicitors that in these circumstances any demand for payment is unlawful, and that your client's failure to comply with my formal request constitutes, under s.127 of the Act, a complete defence to any action they may bring. However, I do not doubt that any Court would view any such action vexatious, as your clients must be aware that it would have no chance of success.

 

Furthermore, the alleged debt remains in dispute. I am sure you are aware that the (UK) Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection (with which, as holders of a Consumer Credit Licence, your clients are obliged to comply), is clear that failing to suspend all collection activity whilst a debt is disputed is an 'unfair practice'.

 

I am of the view that your client's actions in engaging you to make unlawful and spurious demands is in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, as well as the OFT Guidance. Unless I hear from you within seven days that your client has instructed you to cease all collection activity, I will make a formal complaint to Trading Standards, with a request for them to prosecute under the CPUTR 2008.

 

Drink! Feck! Arse! Girls!

[ODC]

you coul always search for them on doogle.org

Edited June 27, 2008 by ODC

[ScarletPimpernel]

you coul always search for them on doogle.org

 

 

Indeed. That green is quite hard to see. Some other colours are better...

[ODC]

I changed it just for you.

[Apip]

Guys, thanks a million.

 

My wife and I just reead thru the proposed letters and are still laughing. They are brilliant

 

It feel great that I can send them a feck off letter but worded in such a way that they acualtualy will.

 

I'll keep you posted on the responce if any.

 

Enjoy you weekends.

 

Kind regards,

 

Pip

[Apip]

Oh ****...

 

Just got home and have a court summonds.. (I think)

 

Ordinary Civil Bill between me and HSBC.

 

You are hereby required within 10 days after the service of this civil bill upon you, to enter, or cause to be entered, with the county registrar at his office: address: *** an apearance to answer the claim os HSBC (having its regiistared office at london....) The plaintiff herein, as indoresed hereon.

 

AND TAKE NOTICE: that unless you do enter an apearance , you will be heald to have attmited the said claim, and the plaintiff may proceed therin and judgment may be given agaist you in you anance.

 

AND TAKE FURTHER NOTICE: that if you intend to defend the proceeding on any ground you must not only enter and apearance as aforesaid, but also with in 10 days after the Apearance deliver a statment in writting showing the nature and gounds of your defence to the plaintiff only.

 

The apearance may be entered by posting the same to the said office, and by giving copies of the apearance and defence to the Plantiffs solicitor.

 

 

It then goes to page to, which basicly out lines the monies they say I owe them.

 

HELP me.. I'm now worried and need some advice. Do I just have to write a letter to them expaining about the CCA ect, and how Crapquest defaulted?

 

Thank you in advance,

 

Yours,

 

A worried man