Wow, I had PPI on a loan with Nawest between 1998-2000, but have no paperwork like yourself, wonder if ther's any milage in me sending a letter:???:

It's already built in as a single premium policy so it is included in any settlement figure

If I was successful it would help towards repaying, has anyone gone to court after the Ombudsman and been successful?

Do you think it's worth proceeding?

The claim is for £150 plus interest. Has anyone on this site been rejected by the Ombudsman and gone on to win in court?

It would be up to you to prepare a case that convinces the judge that the PPI was mis-sold I think that is where the problem could be, I was unable to convince an Ombudsman so going to court to convince the judge could be difficult, and it is going to cost around £60, and if I lose could I face more costs?

Well, I have looked at other current account options and it looks like I'm stuck with Hfx, unless anyone has any ideas?

It seems court is the only option left, althoug at the moment I do not have any funds to proceed. It looks as though I was correct with my original thoughts that I did not think th FOS would rule in my favour, and now if I did go to court Creation will probably argue that the FOS has agreed that I was not mis-sold.

I have now received the Ombudsmans final decision, and unfortunately my complaint has not been upheld. Saying that they caanot safely conclude my version of events being what actually happened. Also that they agree with me that it is good industry practice, and a regulatory requirement for Creation to ensure I received sufficient information to make an informed choice, but they cannot be sure my needs were sufficiently met. And despite me not taking out PPI on any financial products that I currently have I might have found it useful??? This continues on all points made, basically what appears to be "we believe it could have happened this way but we'll go with what the business says"

I have sent off the new edited letter to the FOS so I should be hearing from them soon, just hope the response is a bit more favourable.

Seems a shame that there is no way out of the Hfx O/D, yes, I was stupid enough to go that far into it and I have now learnt my lesson, I just resent Hfx charging £60 for the O/D, ah well, wonder if I can do some ebaying!!!!

I will edit that, thanks ims21, I can now only hope it makes a difference. Anyone with any last thoughts before I sen it off?

This is my provsional letter that I intend to send to the Ombudsman, I would greatly appreciate any thoughts: I refer to the letter dated 20th October 2011 regarding the Ombudsman’s provisional decision. I would like to add the following in response to the Ombudsman’s points in the decision letter. First of all, the overarching question regarding whether Creation gave me clear information. As I pointed out in my original complaint and on the questionnaire I felt that the information given to me was not clear because I not once was told or was my attention drawn to the fact that the policy was a single premium policy and that it would attract interest if it was not settled after the twelve month period, my attention was drawn to the cost if settled, as is clearly circled on the document, so why not continue to explain the PPI details? Also, as case studies show regarding upheld complaints on the FOS’s own website regarding information given at the point of sale. I can confirm that no questions were asked about my circumstances with regards to work benefits or existing insurance held by me, of which I have life insurance and full pay for six months and half pay for twelve months if I am off work, I also have family that could help if needed. This is regarded as good practice even for non-advised sales. I will again state that on more than one occasion the only fact I was told about the policy on more than one occasion was that it was free and that I might as well have it. I would interpret that as a recommendation, I would also ask was this a commission based sale for the salesman? With regards to this I would say it is clear that the salesman, on behalf of Creation, did not put me in a position where I could make an informed choice or take adequate steps to ensure that the policy suited my needs, but sated more than once that I may as well take the policy because it’s free. I will again point out with regards to my personal circumstances that I have both now and in the past on financial products such as credit cards and loans which I have taken out, never took out payment protection insurance as I already have adequate cover through work and personal policies. The Ombudsman states that he is not in a position to know what I was told by the salesman, I can certainly confirm that I was only told that the policy was free with no further explanation about it, this can be confirmed by my wife who was with me at the time of the sale. With regards to the point that I took out the policy because I intended to pay it off early although of course I would have liked to, this was certainly not the case as I had no way of knowing if I would be paying the policy off before the offer period expiry. A personal example of this would be a nine month interest free credit card that I have taken out, where I also could have paid off the balance within the offer period to avoid interest, even with these products I do not take out the PPI policy because as previously stated, I am adequately covered. With regards to that I was given the documents and demands and needs statements, I will point out that my attention was not drawn to any points about the insurance on any of these, something that should have pointed out, even in a non-advised sale, with me and is regarded as good industry practice. I draw attention also to the Ombudsman’s reasons why I may have taken out the policy. I already had and still do have life cover provided by a personal policy and also as a work related benefit so the loan would have been protected by these. As stated I was not asked anything about this. If I would have found myself off work due to accident or sickness I would be covered again by work related benefits as described previously. All work related benefits were, and still are, available to me from the first day of my employment with Northern Rail. If I found myself unemployed I would use my previous experience in order to find employment and I could also ask my family if the need arose. Again I will point out that I was not asked my circumstances regarding this. I can also certainly safely conclude that if I was told or my attention drawn to the fact that this was a single premium PPI policy that would attract interest if I did not pay within the special offer period I would certainly not have taken out this policy. I would also again draw attention to the fact that the salesman stating that “the policy is free, you may as well have it” would be a recommendation, even though Creation state that this was a non-advised policy. So, I would like to say that if this was a non –advised policy why did the salesman say this and did the salesman get commission for PPI sales? I also draw attention to the adjudicator’s decision to uphold my complaint. The adjudicator states he does not think the significance of the cancellation terms were made sufficiently clear to me and also after considering my account agrees that I would not have taken out the policy if I was fully informed. I will also point out that due to my circumstances at the time that is that I had just started a new job in Manchester that I was undergoing training for and that I would be spending considerable time away from my family and also that we required this washing machine as a replacement as our existing one had broken down, obviously my thoughts were on a number of things at the time and an experienced financial salesman would haverecognised this and explained the policy and written documentation in more detail than was given and not just give me papers to sign. I can confirm that with the reasons above, that this policy would be of no benefit to me.

ims21, when I say a way out I mean a way to leave Hfx as my current account provider and go elsewhere that doesn't charge around £60 a month for being overdrawn, the problem is that I can't see antoher bank matching the overdraft I have with the Hfx and if I just went to another provider I would still have to pay Hfx chages as well as an amount to reduce the O/D.

O.K. so trying to reclaim the £60 a months fees will probably go nowhere but I would like to hear any suggestions about getting out of the £5k plus overdraft. Would trying to ask the Hfx for a low cost loan be an idea for example? All sensible suggestions welcome.

This is pretty much what I was thinking ims21, the Ombudsman seems to think that I would have benefitted from the policy anyway, and seems to be on the salesmans side regarding the sale. I know how the conversation went, he definately said it was free and made no attempt to point out what happens after twelve months regagrding extra interest nor did he ask about any existing cover or employee benefits. I am surprised that the Ombudsman reached a completely different verdict to the adjudicator. It looks as thoug I will have to say that I can prove that I have other things that can cover me if needed.

Anyone with any thoughts?

I have now received a provisional decision from the Ombudsman regarding the above. They have decided to reach a "conclusion that differs substantially from the adjudicator's original view on this complaint" They say that they are satisfied with the literature that Creation issued was not providing me with advice and that my details of the sale do not show that I was recieving advice, although I was "strongly reccomended to take out the policy because it was free". I also , as stated, was not told that the policy would attract interest if not paid. The Ombudsman says he is not in a position to know what the salesperson said to me that it was possible that I was told the policy was only free for twelve months, I was not. The Ombudsman goes on to say he acknowledges that it is possible that I might have been so persuaded by a misleading verbal explanation I received, but that does not seem the case in light of evidence he has reviewed. (????) The Ombudsman notes that I said that the salesman was not experienced but also mentions the fact that I was one month into new employment and that I might reasonably take out the policy because: It would not cost me anything if I had the funds to pay at the end of the interest free period and that I had the benefit of life cover during the time and the peace of mind the loan would be protected in the future. If I would have found myself out of work due to accident, sickness or unemployment I might not have had the funds to settle the agreement despite my best intentions and I might also have found it difficult to make monthly repayments. If my financial circumstances changed that I could not pay off within the first twelve months I would be in a less likely position to settle early at all. Also that the documentation states that I would not receive a pro-rata payment if I settled the loan at a later date. The Ombudsman states that he accepts the limitations of the policy might not have been clear to me if my attention was not drawn to them he cannot safely conclude that I would not have taken the policy out and that I might find the policy useful. So the Ombudsman has provisionally rejected my case and I now have a month to put forward any further points and/or to agree or disagree with the decision. Does anyone here have any thoughts on the provisional decision?

The reason for posting is that this letter has apparently had some success in getting refunds for other forum members, anything is worth a try. Any thoughts on the letter anyone?

Double post

I have complied a letter from moc1982 letter that is on this site and added some extra parts: Thank you for your letter dated 17th August 2011. I am writing to state that I do not consider this a satisfactory response. I refer to the points raised in your letter as follows: (1) Regardless of whether the credit card agreement states that charges will be added to the account if the credit limit is exceeded or fail to make contractual payments, it is the amount of the default charge which is in question. (2) You have been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me, as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation. I believe your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79 along with Murray v Leisure Play [2005] EWCA Civ. 963. It was held that a contractual party can only receive damages for an actual loss or liquidated loss. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and/or real loss. If your charges are indeed a genuine pre-estimate of the administrative costs likely to be incurred by you in dealing with defaults then in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs, I request that you provide me with a breakdown and proof of all costs involved with regard to your actual or liquidated losses involved in any breach of contract to which these charges relate with yourselves and that these charges reflect your true costs in relation to the said charges and are proportionate to the charges levied on my account as defined in Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2(e). I would expect this to include a comparison of all charges levied against all customers and the actual costs incurred by you when those customers default. (3) I refer to your comment regarding the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) default charge threshold of £12.00. I am aware that the OFT have stated that “where there are exceptional business factors... for example where a card issuer has a policy of requiring customers to pay minimum monthly repayments by direct debits, such as that operated by Egg….it may be able to set a fair default fee at a level above the threshold”. However, this does not mean that your £16.00 is considered fair. The OFT state that only a court can decide finally whether a term is unfair. I will pursue recovery with a county court claim, if necessary, although I sincerely hope that it will not be. I would like to point out that I have great respect for Egg’s genuine pre-estimate, and great respect for any future pre-estimates that Egg provide. As a former cardholder I cannot help wondering, if after many years in business Egg has ever tried to reconcile Pre-estimates against Post-event audits. I am confident that a company devoted to justice and truth like Egg will not withhold evidence from the cardholder, that Egg will present evidence in court to show after-the-event costs, as well as before-the-event Genuine Pre-estimates. I would also like to know how Citi Ireland had a £6 charge for credit card customers, but U.K. Citi card holders pay £16. I do hope that you will respond positively to this letter in order to avoid court proceedings. To clarify, a positive response being no less than an offer of full settlement of all charges incurred on my account. I am aware of many cases that you have settled in full out of court to date and I assume therefore that would also be your intention in this case. If that is so, then to allow this claim to get that far may be considered an abuse of the court process, so I once again, respectfully request that you refund the total amount of charges I am claiming, now totalling £284.71 as per the attached schedule. I will give you 14 days to respond to this letter before taking the matter further Any comments or ideas to tidy it up and to make it sound better are much appreciated.

Hi Joncow75, I have just got a final response from Egg, not repaying etc... now going to go down the small claims route and take it from there, see what difference that makes!!!!

I wanted to see if it was too late to do anything about the Halifax current account £2 per day fees, the thread is here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?299810-Halifax-Current-Account-overdraft-charges-Is-it-too-late-to-do-anything I am progressing O.K. with the credit card side of things though.

An update to the post. I contacted Creation after the high court ruling to see if they would pay up instead of having to wait for the ombudsman's decision, they refused and chose to let the case drag on.

Thank you for your reply The Abused. I am currently in the process of reclaiming credit card charges from the Halifax so when that is sorted I will move on to reclaiming the promotional interest. My current account thread is with regards to the new overdraft fees but I have had no luck with that.