I'm a new member and unfortunately going to make myself unpopular straightaway....

I'm an employee of Nationwide, I work in Lending Control, and i deal with accounts that are overdrawn due to bank charges.

Now, i'm with many of you, and i don't agree with these charges and i wouldn't be happy if i recieved some of the letters i have to send.

But one thing i do question every day is why do so many of you leave the problem until you owe hundreds of pounds? Do you not check you bank statements? I realise some people don't recieve their statements due to incorrect address's, but is it not your responsibilty to update them???

It's quite often because money is snatched out of accounts to pay the previous months charges which means that direct debits etc are bounced in the current month and so the cycle goes on.

What really annoys me is when banks do this to people on low incomes and benefits who really can't afford to see 50% or more of their income go towards paying off UNLAWFUL bank charges.

The fact that your employer like the other banks knows that these charges are unlawful but chooses to ignore it and put roadblocks in the way of anyone who tries to challenge them, is a disgrace.

But one thing i do question every day is why do so many of you leave the problem until you owe hundreds of pounds? Do you not check you bank statements? I realise some people don't recieve their statements due to incorrect address's, but is it not your responsibilty to update them???

Checking statements has got nothing to do with anything.

For years the Banks have been applying charges to peoples accounts, and told them they were entitled to do so. A customer calls to complain - often beg - to have that charge reversed, and the Banks tells them to sod off.

More often than not, the customer is then caught in a vicious circle with no way out.

Until now that is...

Checking statements has everything to do with it, because thats where your charges are notified

And be honest, even if the vast majority called as soon as the charges were levied, would they be have a better chance? Truthfully?

Firstly, since we're talking about people not paying attention to detail, I presume you read the site rules and gained relevant permission to post?

Sounds rather pedantic, doesn't it?

A little like the banks who will charge you an unlawful £39 if you happen to fall a few pence overdrawn!

Let us, for one moment, consider an employee whose company does not pay them one month, without notice. The employee has previously set up many DD's and S/Os to coincide with pay day (making sure they pay their way before any other spending!). Suddenly, several charges of £39, plus overlimit fees, plus notification costs... Now they face the prospect of finding , say, £252 in charges next month before they meet their existing demands.

Is this the kind of irresponsible customer you are referring to?

Ahh, no you say - in this case the bank would clearly help out and cancel those unlawful charges, surely? Just phone them, right? or pop along to your friendly branch and plead for assistance....

Sorry buddy - but if you believe that banks in general go the extra mile for their customers, you really need to read the posts on this site.

Above all else, you also miss the most important point in regards to these charges....

but we're about to get them back!

Checking statements has everything to do with it, because thats where your charges are notified

Sorry, I'm lagging behind the answers here.

I beg to differ. I have had charges taken off my account the very next day, and in some cases, the SAME day as the allleged offence. Even banking online would not make the slightest difference.

jonni, calm down, please.

So far, employee has been polite, and querying something which he genuinely seems intrigued about, let's reciprocate. As long as I'm happy that he is genuine and not trollish, I'll ask for a minimum of courtesy here.

Firstly, since we're talking about people not paying attention to detail, I presume you read the site rules and gained relevant permission to post?

To be fair she probably didn't realise that. There isn't a problem with bank employees posting on here provided they notify us. The fact that the first message makes reference to Nationwide as employer probably counts as notification anyway.

Checking statements has everything to do with it, because thats where your charges are notified

You are missing the point.

Someone accummulating charges of £10k over 6 years, and someone who accumulated £40 over 6 years are both in the same boat when it comes to trying to claim their money back.

Whether or not there is a statement in front of them, the charge has been applied and will remain.

So having kept every single statement since the account was opened telling you that the Bank has taken £10k from you, or just finding out 2 days ago after having asked for your statements that the bank has taken £10k from you means diddly squat..

And as I said earlier, until now that is...

So in answer to your question "do people not check their statements" - it would have made no difference... UNTIL NOW

I am actually a she

And as you say, i am not here to offend anyone, or cause argument, i am genuinely intrigued by this matter.

Well we hope that you have been enlightened!

xxdiddiexx...

i understand your points entirely....

The reason i asked the question is not aiming at anyone whos ever recieved a charge on a a/c.... i should explain my posistion more clearly

My posistion is a debt collector on current a/c's (what a joyful career )

And every day i see accounts where for 18 months direct debits have been bouncing, there is a large amount of charges, which have given the a/c an overdrawn balance, but no contact has ever been recieved from the customer, and that is when i wonder how people could let the matter get that far

At the end of the day, i have to do the job im paid to do, but if i could, i'd refund you all! hehe

Well I for one refuse to call my bank anymore!

They are in India and i can never understand them!

I have begged before for refunds/extended Overdrafts when I have been totally skint and got 2 hungry children to feed and they still refuse.

I have tried to deal with them but I just feel really downtrodden from it all...

Also for some people a large corporation is quite a scarey thing if you have to admit you are struggling to pay things, at least here you have support from others which spurs your own case on.

So what do you think...should banks be refunding charges no matter how the account has been run?

Have a look around on the site and read some of the stories of what people have been put through by the banks. Most are ordinary decent people who, for whatever reason, have run into difficulties and found that the banks, far from being sympathetic, have merely compounded the misery.

I grew up thinking of the banks are honest, reasonable and trustworthy organisations. That was undoubtedly true at one point. Nowadays, however, they (incluidng your employer I'm afraid) are greedy and thoroughly inconsiderate of the problems they cause people.

Fifty years ago, if someone had suggested that the banks acted unlawfully, noone would have believed them. Nowadays banks rank alongside estate agents and politicians in terms of public perception of their honesty and reliability. It that any wonder when they are brazenly charging £3bn a year in unlawful charges?

I think that in those cases you refer to, - and it seems to me that you get the filtered end of things, the worst case scenarii - the ruling element is shame, denial.

People will hide from their partner that they've lost their job. Or hide the bills as they arrive. We live in a money orientated society where you have to keep up with the Joneses, and some people will do anything not to lose their perceived social standing.

We watch these people on TV, read about them in magazines, and ask the same question as you do: How did they not stop? Why did they carry on spending? We clearly see from the outside that therein lies the path to madness, but as usual, from the inside, the person closest to the problem doesn't see it, or closes their eyes to it.

jonni, calm down, please.

 

So far, employee has been polite, and querying something which he genuinely seems intrigued about, let's reciprocate. As long as I'm happy that he is genuine and not trollish, I'll ask for a minimum of courtesy here.

At what point have I become aggresive? There is nothing in my post which, even having read again, would I consider to have been anything more than a genuine response to the original points raised. Even the extra large lettering used is hardly going ott.

In response to seminole - I drew attention to the site rules only to highlight the point that the poster (employee) may have missed the site rules, even though they are clearly posted - especially since she had fist written "Do you not check you bank statements?" - it was intended to highlight that even the best of people might sometimes overlook the obvious... I don't suggest for one moment that she shouldn't have posted.

I hope that clears things up

xxdiddiexx...

 

i understand your points entirely....

 

The reason i asked the question is not aiming at anyone whos ever recieved a charge on a a/c.... i should explain my posistion more clearly

 

My posistion is a debt collector on current a/c's (what a joyful career )

And every day i see accounts where for 18 months direct debits have been bouncing, there is a large amount of charges, which have given the a/c an overdrawn balance, but no contact has ever been recieved from the customer, and that is when i wonder how people could let the matter get that far

 

At the end of the day, i have to do the job im paid to do, but if i could, i'd refund you all! hehe

Ok...

I guess fear is what stops most people from contacting the bank! You read all the time about people hiding letters that they receive from banks, and at worst comitting suicide! It's a real shame, but fear can be very debilitating for some poeple and the "lovely" letters that they receive don't tend to help matters.

Personally I think that when an account is overdrawn due to a bank making a charge, then the bank should stop all further charges to prevent that person getting even more in debt.

However, I also believe that people should take some responsibility for their actions. There is a thread on this forum where someone had/has a £500 overdraft limit yet were able to take out £1k through the hole in the wall, but i'm not going to comment any further on that particular thread, except to say that we also have to act responsibly.

There have been several occasions where if I have Standing Order or Direct Debit going out and I know that there may be insufficient funds to cover it - then I will cancel that direct debit so I don't incur charges

Personally I think that when an account is overdrawn due to a bank making a charge, then the bank should stop all further charges to prevent that person getting even more in debt.

This is a common point raised by a lot of people here. As customers we are less financially mature than the banks (apparently) and that is why we appoint them as our fiduciary. This is a position of trust, and we have been led to believe that this trust is not misplaced.

How would you feel if a doctor allowed you to keep taking pills once you had finished a course of treatment? It's the same position of trust - we are intelligent, but we don't know everything, we are not always certain when to stop, not quite sure what is for the best and this is why we ask others to manage certain areas of our lives.

It is good that bank staff come on the site - in the main they are sympathetic to our plight. However, they work in an industry that is not so sympathetic, and therefore they must expect some flak, although we should try to keep it impersonal. Personally I think that employee is one of the nicer people, and as long as she remains attentive to our cause then I am happy for her posts.

Sorry mods - I had to put my twopenneth in

It always makes me laugh when bank employees (no offence meant to any of them) say "you read and agreed to the T&C's" or "You agreed to them, if you didn't read them it's your fault."

...and all the while being in complete ignorance of the forum rules. The ones that state that bank employees must ask permission to read and/or post in this forum.

To date, I have had requests from 2 bank employees for permission to read/post in the forum - both of which are not this chap, nor the other one who was posting in the 'everything else' forum (the one who actually did say "if you didn't read the T&C's then it's your fault.")

Therefore, they could hardly complain when I bring about charges under the 1990 Computer Misuse Act.

1.—(1) A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a) he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer;

(b) the access he intends to secure is unauthorised
 

I agree, bank employees are welcome - but they MUST ask permission to post/read so that our members (a lot of whom are engaging in legal battles with their banks) can be protected from bank 'spies'.

Remember, IP's are logged!!

The reasons that some people let it get 'so far' is that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Banks will pile on charges month after month - if you ring to let the bank know that you are having difficulty, you are usually met by rudeness and at best, just indifference or condicending tones. Not really being considered 'sympathetically' as per the banking code.

Banks have made a reputation for themsleves - and it's not a good one. People would rather stick hot pins under their eyelids that phone a bank and be talked down to because they have a debt that has got out of hand, usually through no fault of their own, and a debt that is spiraling due to unlawful punitive measures imposed by the banks.

The only option for a lot of people is to literally bury their head in the sand - there is no way out of it for that person, so facing up to it will just increase their stress. Out of sight, out of mind. If the charges really were reasonable and that person actually stood a chance of paying back their 'debt', then I suggest that it would be easier for them to face.

over xmas i deposited a cheque to cover my dd's , i was told it would take 3 days to clear.this would have been enough to clear and pay my dd's...but it took 4 days to clear and on the 4th day most of my dd's came out in 1 day due to the holiday..NW bounced the lot... and charged me £270 for the service..i then got charged another £20 for going above my od,and £9 interest on my od.followed by unpaid fees from at least 2 of the credit companys not paid totalling £350...from 1 days activity...now when i requested help from nw headoffice .they said our hands are tied unless your branch will verify your "STORY" that they told you 3 days to clear and not 4..of course the branch said they would never had said such a thing and tuff luck...pay up...this got me very annoyed..luckily for me i then read an article about a trainee solicitor who took his bank to court for unlawfull charges..did a web search for unlawfull bank charges and found this site albeit in its early stages with about 40 members....the rest is history...yesterday i recieved almost £1600 of my money back from nw..already have a claim registered with the court for almost £2200 with ltsb..and am pursuing said credit companies for lesser amounts ..and will help anyone else who needs advice to do the same...these banks are parasites that feed off the poor and less fortunate... i personally know of a friends daughter that took her life due to debt...she ran in front of a train..now if her bank had been a little more understanding perhapps she might be alive today.so dont tell me to request help when you first recieve your first bank charge because they dont want to know...they only listen when you take action..and would only pay up if they had no choice...THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE....TO TAKE ACTION..LIVE WITH IT OR LEAVE....enforcer..

hear hear

My partner had the same with grAbbey. Ironically, it was the cheque that they sent after she sucessfully sued them. She was informed it would take 4 days to clear. It didn't. She was charged. They received their papers from the court 14 days later. They shut the account - she got her money. She complained to the OFT.

Treat them with the contempt with which they treat us.

In response to the original points I would like to add my twopenneth worth.

Firstly it has been ruled in one case that there is no obligation on anyone to check their bank statements.

Now this is a little bit difficult to justify I know but all the same, the law is the law.

Secondly, I have tried calling my bank. Most of the time I get spoken to like I am a child when I say the charges are unfair. It usually makes me very angry to be treated like that and when I get angry it ain't pretty. So I very rarely call. I like letters. No-one can say you said this or you said that. It can be looked back at just to check that we all know what we are talking about.

For me the biggest gripe is that a year ago I wrote to the Nationwide. I put my hands up and said 'sorry, we have made a mess up'. In fact we hadn't but our tenant let us down and we lost money as a result. It happens and we struggled our way out of it. We explained that we had adjusted all our finances and put it all back on an even keel. The only problem was (you guessed it) the charges. We had paid a load but there were more due and we could not afford them. We asked if they could be stopped and even if some of those already paid could be refunded. The letter we got back was unacceptable. (I hope it wasn't from you 'employee' but if it was I'm sorry I have dragged this out in the open). It basically said tough. They would only refund a small number even though we explained we could not afford the rest.

The result as most members have also experienced was a gradual escalation during which time we sent letter after letter. A remarkeable number were 'not received'. I put that in commas because we now use recorded delivery and lo and behold they are still lost even though Royal Mail clearly show them as delivered.

What really made me lose all respect was when after scraping together the money to pay the remaining charges, the bank wrote and reduced our overdraft. Guess the reason! Yes, the high number of charges. I mean you can only say that someone in the bank is having a laugh.

We have now refused to pay and have taken our business elsewhere. The account is left with a large overdrawn balance that we are refusing to pay. Then in spite of all the letters we have written a young man by the name of Andrew rang. It was 8.10am and we were trying to get ready for work and school. He was extremely rude threatening to issue a default notice in three days. I explained to him that we had the matter in dispute and that he should contact the other member of staff we had written to. His response was that it was not his problem and he had no intention of referring it to anyone. I asked to speak to his manager and he refused!!!! I had to invoke my full wrath to get to speak to someone who apologised and said I had identified a training need. That was yet another episode of 'your letter has not been received'.

Now I have never had trouble with the branch staff but whenever I call on the phone I often seem to meet with a brick wall. As for the Banking Code (we will treat you with fairness, sympathetically etc) it might just as well be written on toilet paper for all the good it does! I know that you are only acting on instructions but even you do have some power within the organisation. Sadly I have none. I am only a customer and I am just not important enough.

I feel really sorry for you and I would not to work where you do. I'm not in a loved profession myself and this whole episode has made me think about what I do at work. At least my employer has an internal forum for raising questions direct and whilst we do get a politicians answer if we organise ourselves enough we can change things a little.

Anyway enough said now. I hope by reading some of the terrible stories on this forum, you too will learn to be a little kinder to your customers. Perhaps you should suggest that all trainees have a look as part of the training programme to see how customers feel. You never know we might have mutual appreciation societies going before long (steady now girl!)

I hope this doesn't read as a rant because it isn't. I am very calm and in control. Do you know why? Because I have now discovered I was right all along and I have the power to put it right. It's the lack of power, the feeling that you cannot do anything to rectify the situation, that's what gets people so angry and frustrated.

Hope you can take something of use from this posting and if you see a case that looks like mine, treat us with a little bit of sympathy and humanity.

Thanks for listening (reading)

***

Wow - what a great posting, and so eloquently delivered. Well done that girl - you tell them how it is.