Innocent vs Natwest...need a double check****WON ****

[innocent]

Hi there all, isnt this a great site....

Been dealing with Lloyds, Capital One, Natwest and Barclaycard and more to come...

 

I have already sent all necessary letters and schedules (with all the DPA correct info) with no avail...

 

But this is my first moneyclaim online situation, and I would appreciate some encouragement and someone to check i have done everything correctly;

 

Under REFERENCE DETAILS i just put "Natwest Penalty Charges" is this ok?

 

Secondly i have a multitude of accounts so this was the claim; is it ok?

 

1.The Claimant has accounts 80xxxxxx-55xxxx,

4263xxxxxxxxxxxx and 5454xxxxxxxxxxxx with

the Defendant, opened March2003,Feb04,Aug03;

2.Since 08/10/03,25/01/04 and 22/08/03 the

Defendant debited charges+interest inrespect

of purported breaches of contract; 3.

Defendant is aware of all details as list of

charges has already been supplied.Another

copy will be sent; 4.Claimant contends:(a)

The charges exceed the Defendant's losses

caused by breaches;(b)The term permitting

the Defendant to levy such charges is

unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in

Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999,Unfair

Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law;

5.Claimant claims:(a)return of the amounts

debited of £2884.13;(b)Interest per S.69

County Courts Act 1984 of 8%-£403.46 contin

at 8% until judgement or settlement at a

daily rate of £0.63; 6.Alternatively,if the

charges are a fee for a service,then they

must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply

of Goods and Services Act 1982; 7.Costs

allowed by the Court.

 

Isnt the 24 line rule fun?

 

Thirdly, because I am claiming online, where should I send further (updated and final) schedules to???

 

Lastly, is anyone at roughly the same stage with me, that perhaps we can communicate regularly and encourage each other?

 

 

Cheers Jason

[innocent]

Can anyone pls confirm previous thread ok before I "press" the button....

 

Have read all FAQs etc but because multiple accounts want to make sure my oney claim online is

 

"understandable" and acceptable

 

Cheers

 

Jason

[Guest NATTIE]

evening guys help required on this one

[Bigredbus]

Hi innocent,

 

Try to browse the winning thread and use a more descriptive PoC as yours seems to be lacking in details about the statutes you are inserting in your PoC. Cobbetts are actually trying to struck out cases on the basis that PoCs aren't precise enough...

 

You may send copies of updated docs to the Northampton County court (Court dealing with MCOL), so they'll append them to your claim.

 

And I cannot answer your first question... sorry!

 

Good luck... and follow your timeline...

[innocent]

Well have "bitten the bullet"

 

Case number 6QZ73048 12/10

 

Will start compiling my folder for the court case this coming week and forward further, updated schedules to Natwest registered office, and MCOL

 

Once I have had some documentation from (presumably) Cobbets I will forward schedules to them too...

 

Wish me luck........

 

 

**ps quick question: I have got a Natwest business account too (or used too) but business now ceased trading..... sooooo how can "the business" (now ceased) take Natwest to court and not "the individual"???

 

Keep up the good work all

 

Cheers

[innocent]

ACKNOWLEDGED 24/10/06

 

LETTER FOR M.P. SENT 30/10

 

FOLDERS READY FOR COURT ACTION!!!!

 

Q. Should I send Cobbetts a copy of the schedule now? or wait for their communication????

[innocent]

Ok........ I think Im up together with everything:

 

Sent this on 1/11 to MCOL and Cobbetts:

 

 

"Innocent"

 

Money Claim Online, 1st November, 2006

Northampton County Court,

21-27 St. Katharine's Street,

Northampton.

NN1 2LH.

 

Re: Innocent vs. Natwest (Claim number 6QZ73048)

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

In fulfilment of my particulars of claim and for reference I enclose a copy of the schedule of charges I am disputing showing all dates, penalty charges, interest on penalties and including interest per S.69 County Courts Act 1984. I have previously sent copies of this schedule direct to Natwest.

 

In addition I enclose an “expanded” version of the ‘Particulars of Claim’ already submitted. I am only enclosing this because of the restrictions of space when filing my claim online.

 

I would appreciate if all of these details could be attached to my claim.

 

Many thanks,

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

I have attached a schedule showing all on the date of the claim

and the explaned POC (basically just clarifying accounts and sort codes, but it was clear enough on original)

 

 

NOW WAIT AND SEE........

[innocent]

Hi all; had offer of £1700 from cobbetts before defence and AQ and everything....... encouraging

 

Heres my response....... what do you all think??

 

Re: Beal vs. National Westminster Bank (Claim number 6QZ73048)

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your letter dated the 9th November, 2006.

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement of £1700.00 and request, once again, that your client, National Westminster Bank plc, return to me all charges imposed on my accounts, interest and court fees, which together with the daily rate of £0.63 now total £3429.01 as of 15th November 2006.

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder, with the current county court case. I will be willing to withdraw my claim upon receipt of unconditional full settlement of my claim.

Although you have deemed that this offer is reasonable, I will bring to the courts attention that this is not the case as at no point has the defendant justified their charges to the accounts. Consequently without such justification, the charges are unlawful and only a full refund is acceptable.

I am also not prepared to agree to any confidentially clauses you try to impose.

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[The cobbett slayer]

Looks alright to me. Just one question.

 

Did they try for a CA on the original offer. If they didn't then don't tempt them into one.At the end of the day, you can always refuse to be bound by conditions but if they aren't there in the first place it's less of an issue.

 

Paul

[innocent]

Hi ya Paul

 

Thanks for viewing my thread

 

ca? confidentiality agreement (forgive spelling long night)?

 

they sent me a "bog standard" offer letter stating i will loose it court (blah blah) accept this as gesture of good will (blah blah), letter "without prejudice" but want they want to be able to disclose in court....

 

[....without prejudice but they want the right to show offer in court....absolute cheek.... one rule for one and one rule for another i think not.... this is why i included: i reserve the right to ask them to disclose the actual costs incurred to the court of the penalty charges]

 

.....and i cannot talk to 3rd parties [again i think not]

 

I think my letter is "apt"

 

I thank u again for ur response......so many cases here, its nice to get one ;-)

 

Im encouraged because this is there first and offer to me so far, and only after 3 weeks of court action and no fdefence or aq yet

 

Tell ya what? I hope they read here, cause Im ready; folders ready everything for court action....

 

So full offer, or "bring it on"

 

hehehe

 

Cheers again

 

[Guest Scarletrose]

Hi innocent thanx for replying to my thread, would like to ask i have just done my mcol as you know on mon 13th nov but havent sent a schedule of charges to the court yet as i dont know wot court i am under, when will i find this out so i can send them the schedule?

[Deller]

As soon as they file their defence (if it gets that far), you will receive a notice of transfer, you can then send a copy of your schedule to the court then.

 

If you want to send one to MCOL (Northampton Court) first it wouldn't hurt, I did anyhow just to be on the safe side.

[Guest Scarletrose]

Cheers deller!

[Deller]

This is the address for Northampton Court,

 

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St. Katharine's Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

Send your schedule with cover letter and ask them to attach to your claim.

[janet goodwin]

Hi

Just thought i'd let you know I am in same position as you re Natwest Business Account. Cobbetts sent letter this wekk offering £650 goodwill...... I replied yesterday declining their offer. They too said they'd use the 'without predj. ' letter in court. I in turn explained that without knowing how much it costs them to return DD/SO etc. I didn't know if £650 was a fair offer!!

Janet

[innocent]

Well folks....

 

Received copy of defence from cobbetts and court system

 

Had notice of "notice of transfer of proceedings" to Portsmouth County Court... and

 

Allocation questionaire (small claims track) due back on the 5th November (which I will leave to the end of this month for now, based on other cases)

 

 

This was the defence; a little short??????

(still the same mistake in their defence)

 

DEFENCE

1. This Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the Defendant's case that the Particulars of Claim do not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the Claimant to recover the bank charges (and interest thereon) referred to in the Particulars of Claim or any other sum(s). In the event that the Claimant does not properly particularise his claim then the Defendant will apply to strike out the claim and/or for summary judgement in respect of the same.

 

2. On allocation the Defendant invites the Court to direct that there be a case management conference in order for the Court to consider the making of appropriate orders to give the Claimant the opportunity to properly particularise his claim.

 

3. No admissions are made as to what charges have been debited to the Claimant's bank account.

 

4. In relation to the allegation that the contractual provisions pursuant to which the charges have been applied are unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 ("UCTA 1977") and/or the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999 ("the Regulations") and/or the common law, the Claimant is required to identify:

 

4.1 (a) the section(s) of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 ("UCTA 1977");

 

(b) the regulations of The Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999 ("the Regulations");

 

and © the principles of common law relied upon by the Claimant in alleging that the contractual provision(s) referred to are unenforceable; and

 

4.2 the contractual provision(s) that the Claimant allege are invalid by reference to UCTA 1977 and/or the Regulations.

Until such time as these sections/regulations/provisions are identified the Defendant cannot (save as appears below) plead to the allegation referred to in paragraph 4 above. The Defendant therefore reserves its right to plead further to the allegation once (and if) the Claimant identifies the relevant contractual information.

 

5. Save as hereinbefore appears the Defendant joins issue with the Claimant on his claim(s) and denies it is liable to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

 

Statement of Truth

 

 

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I am duly authorised by the Defendant to sign this statement.

Lynsey Clare Burgoyne....Cobbetts LLB

What no request for a CPR18??? (Oh I was so looking forward to this hehehe)

Whats a case management conference???

How, or do I respond to their defence???

Having read through many, many, many other threads and got back ache this morning (perhaps I can put in a personal injury claim too) it has been suggested that I reply to acknowledge the defence to the court and "cc" it to Cobbetts....

How about this???

I am writing to inform you that I have received a full defence from the defendant NatWest Bank Plc today 16th November 2006.

 

I feel I have answered all the questions that the Defendants representatives appear to be asking and have sent the Defendant the full details of my claim on at least 2 occasions already.

 

I note that Cobbetts defence and requests seem to be based on a standard template being sent out to all claimants regardless of the way the Claimants claim is constructed and its only purpose appears to be to frustrate and intimidate.

 

Should the courts require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me using the contact details above.

 

 

Help? Whats everyone think??

 

Thanks

 

Innocent

[Deller]

How about this???

 

 

I am writing to inform you that I have received a full defence from the defendant NatWest Bank Plc today 16th November 2006.

 

I feel I have answered all the questions that the Defendants representatives appear to be asking and have sent the Defendant the full details of my claim on at least 2 occasions already.

 

I note that Cobbetts defence and requests seem to be based on a standard template being sent out to all claimants regardless of the way the Claimants claim is constructed and its only purpose appears to be to frustrate and intimidate.

 

Should the courts require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me using the contact details above.

 

 

 

Help? Whats everyone think??

 

Thanks

 

Innocent

 

 

Yes this looks to be fine!!;-)

[innocent]

Thanks Deller....

 

...for your reply, ur wisdom and experience....

 

 

.... feels so much better when somebody says "sounds good to me"

 

 

 

Cheers and thanks again

 

Innocent;)

[Guest Scarletrose]

it seems the ball is started rolling again for you innocent, 'case management conference' sounds like a party to me is it bring a bottle, or in there case fetch a chequebook????

[innocent]

Like your theory Scarlet

 

 

Innocent

[innocent]

As some of you already know I received a letter dated 21st November asking to reduce or remove my overdraft facility of £1500 and to contact the office (at Hornchurch) within 14 days, signed again with an unidentifable squiggle...

 

Now I need a little advice,

 

I seem to remember somewhere that whilst the account is in dispute about the refund of charges, they cannot close and account or remove an overdraft facility...

 

is it a breach of the banking code???

 

is it itimidation?

 

Should i phone? write to natwest quoting this?

 

Should I inform the court of this intimidation, copying the letter to natwest and cobblers?

 

What is the exact breach of the banking code??

 

 

There used to be much info on this site about account closures atc but I just cant seem to find it??

 

Thanks for all the help, that no doubt everyone will provide to answer my questions....

 

Innocent

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Innocent,

 

You said earlier "Allocation questionaire (small claims track) due back on the 5th November (which I will leave to the end of this month for now, based on other cases)"

 

Is this the AQ or was it the CPR 18 request? I think (unless you know to the contrary) you should send your AQ in, so's your case is allocated to Small Claims, rather than Fast Track.

 

As for the demand letter, write back to NW - don't phone - pointing out that the matter is in dispute, giving the court ref no. By all means copy the Court and Cobbetts in - it won't do any harm. Mark your letter to the Bank cc'd to the Court and Cobblers.

 

Not that I know anything......

[natwesttookmymoney]

Oh, and yes, it is a breach of the Banking Code (get a copy - it's available online). I think it's section 7.5; while they're not actually closing the account, point out that it's de facto removal of Banking facilities. It's a breach of their own Code of Conduct, too. Yes, it seems to be an intimidatory action and 'ad terrorem'. Say that.

 

Best

[innocent]

Wowowow

 

good advice 'natwesttookmymoney'

 

will write letter as suggest it and cc it to court and cobblers; i will check out section 7.5 too....

 

Am leaving my allocation questionnaire to early november; just in case they pay up before...

 

I NEVER HAD A CPR 18 REQUEST???? Strange???

 

(their total defence is listed here and no mention of it)

 

 

 

Thanks again, really, big thanks

 

 

Innocent

[innocent]

This is a draft letter proposed; what does everone think?

 

Innocent

Innocents address

 

Business Manager ("unnamed")

Natwest Direct Business Banking

P.O. Box 4115

Hornchurch

Essex

RM12 4DF

 

Re: your letter dated 21st November 2006 and account xxxxxxxx/xxxxxx and court case 6QZ73048

 

Dear Sir,

 

As I am certain you should be aware;

this account is currently officially 'in dispute', reference court case number 6QZ73048

, regarding penalty charges applied to this and other Natwest accounts of mine over the last 6 years.

 

Whilst you are not proposing closure of the account you are proposing 'de facto' removal of banking facilities;

this would clearly be a breach of section 7.5 of the banking code

and thus FSA regulations. Its a breach of your own banking code too. I find your letter, whilst the account is in dispute, intimidatory action and 'ad terrorem', which I will bring to the courts attention.

 

I too would like to see a way forward, as soon as possible, and look forward to the conclusion of my case. I can assure you that upon conclusion of the above case, I sincerely look forward to clearing as much Natwest debt as possible, including this overdraft facility on the above account.

 

Purely as a gesture of goodwill however, I am prepared to pay into this account small deposits commencing no later than the 11th December, 2006.

 

I trust this clarifies my position,

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Innocent

 

 

cc. Portsmouth Combined Courts

cc. Cobbetts Solicitors (Natwest solicitors)