Nationwide taking me to court.HELP.

[tomterm8]

I've moved the thread.

 

Can you give me a summary of what's happened in the last... four / five months?

 

Also, write up the text of the application.

[out of cash]

hi all,

 

have made a real mess of things i think was asked directly by judge at a pre hearing do i owe the debt i stupidly said yes but not under this document they are calling an agreement application form in big caps at top of doc can anyone say will this go to full trial as trial date is set i am going to fight this all the way just cant believe the amount of paper work sols are sending out to me.any help most appreciated.

 

out of cash

[Docman]

Hi there,

 

Re-rerad the thread but got a bit lost over your last couple of posts.

 

Don't be too bothered at 12 March date just yet. I got the impression that at the pre-trial hearing, the muppet was saying, "No,sir, No,Sir, three bags no sir"? ie no CCA. How can NW now apply for judgement?

[tomterm8]

OOC have they sent you

 

Have they sent you a copt of:

a. Default notice

b. Copies of statement

c. Copies of credit agreement

d. Copies of document of assignment

e. witness statement?

 

Basically, have they sent you the documents you requested.

 

Can you redact / wash (remove your personal details ) from a-e and post them here?

[out of cash]

hi tomterm & everyone,

 

creditor seems to think that what they have supplied is sufficient enough the next court date is 11th may where they are going for summary judgement

 

this will be their 2nd time at applying for this i am going to sar them for the default notice they say they sent which i cant seem to find is all they have is an application form which states in big caps its just that with 1 prescibed term and my sig page 2 full prescibed terms and conditions which are microscopic the judge at 1st hearing didnt even know that this debt came under the cca 1974 i am really dreading this costs to be paid my me if i lose around 12k + 10k to cred

 

all help and advice greatly appreciated i also stupidly admitted to the debt when asked by judge:eek:

 

best regards

 

to all out of cash

[The GodMother]

No need to SAR just CPR them it is the same thing but it is free except the postage

 

Just send them this and they have to provide everything on the list this is basically the same as the SAR info

 

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear xxxx,

 

I acknowledge receipt of your notice of intended legal action sent by your company on 3rd July 2007 which was received on 6th July 2007.

Please be aware that any proceedings will be extremely vigorously defended and that a counterclaim will be made against ** DCA **. I am unable to respond further at this time, since you have given me inadequate information to investigate the claim. Please note that under the Overriding Objectives, you have a duty to act reasonably at all times.

 

As you are aware, under the pre-action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules, your letter before action should have included the following information:

4.3 The claimant's letter should —

(a) give sufficient concise details to enable the recipient to understand and investigate the claim without extensive further information;

(b) enclose copies of the essential documents which the claimant relies on;

© ask for a prompt acknowledgement of the letter, followed by a full written response within a reasonable stated period;

(For many claims, a normal reasonable period for a full response may be one month.)

(d) state whether court proceedings will be issued if the full response is not received within the stated period;

(e) identify and ask for copies of any essential documents, not in his possession, which the claimant wishes to see;

(f) state (if this is so) that the claimant wishes to enter into mediation or another alternative method of dispute resolution; and

(g) draw attention to the court's powers to impose sanctions for failure to comply with this practice direction and, if the recipient is likely to be unrepresented, enclose a copy of this practice direction.

I note that your letter failed to enclose copies of the essential documents upon which you will seek to rely, failed to ask for acknowledgement of the letter, failed to ask for a written response within a reasonable period of time, and did not draw attention to the courts powers

to force all parties to comply with the practice direction.

I intend to provide you with a full written response, but as yet I have not got adequate information to investigate your claim.

To enable me to investigate this claim I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

If you fail to disclose this information, I may apply to the court under Part 18 and part 31 of the civil procedure rules.

I will be unable to respond to your claim without this information, and by failing to supply it before starting legal action you would breach the overriding objective of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Request for disclosure;

I request that you send me information vital to investigating your claims, including:

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor.

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual

intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ** CREDITOR **.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

3. Any other documents you will seek to rely upon in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

Please note, I will respond to your claim in full within 14 days of your providing this information. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, or if you start proceedings without furnishing this information, it will be reported to the Court that you are denying me the opportunity to settle this matter amicably.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully,

[tomterm8]

hi tomterm & everyone,

 

creditor seems to think that what they have supplied is sufficient enough the next court date is 11th may where they are going for summary judgement

 

this will be their 2nd time at applying for this i am going to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them for the default notice they say they sent which i cant seem to find is all they have is an application form which states in big caps its just that with 1 prescibed term and my sig page 2 full prescibed terms and conditions which are microscopic the judge at 1st hearing didnt even know that this debt came under the cca 1974 i am really dreading this costs to be paid my me if i lose around 12k + 10k to cred

 

all help and advice greatly appreciated i also stupidly admitted to the debt when asked by judge:eek:

 

best regards

 

to all out of cash

 

Can you then post up the documents:

1. the credit agreement

2. The default notice

 

Unless you do this, I can't help you.

 

Have they sent you copies of the statements? Have you worked out if they claimed any late payment etc charges?

 

Have they sent all the information in the original list, or explained why they don't have it?

 

All the best, Tom.

[The GodMother]

Can you then post up the documents:

1. the credit agreement They sent an applicantion form

2. The default notice Has not been recieved but nationwide say they have sent one

 

Unless you do this, I can't help you.

 

Have they sent you copies of the statements? Have you worked out if they claimed any late payment etc charges?

 

Have they sent all the information in the original list, or explained why they don't have it?

 

All the best, Tom.

 

Well this sounds like fun they have not sent a deafult notice.

[pt2537]

Ah but dont forget chrissi an application form for the purposes of enforcement can be an agreement. so thats why we need to see what they sent, its at the point where we cannot help until we see what was sent as Tom so rightfully said, if OOC doesnt help us we can not help them also as tom points out we need to know if there was a default notice and the form that notice takes so we need to see them

[The GodMother]

I know that paul.

 

I thought the application form had already been made into wallpaper as it is not a credit agreement. As for the deafult notice it has never been recieved so how can he post up a application form.

 

Just a question for you tho paul.

 

I noticed on a different thread and have read comments about before that the recreation of agreements is not the only documents being recreated.

 

On one thread that i think you are helping on the OP asked for a copy of the deafult notice that was sent out that the OP never recieved. OC claims it had been sent out. Now what th OC done was re create this document because there computer system would not let them print off an original again.

 

Is this legal and can a recreated deafult notice be used in court as it is not the original?

[out of cash]

Hi All,

 

My Apologies To Everyone For Not Posting Up My Agreement As Scanner Is On The Blink Have Just Fixed This they have also just come up with some terms and cons on another page which i think should be in the sig document not to sure of this i am sending an applicato what their doing and have highlighted the relevant points as to why judicial contol etc. icant find any default notice sent by them as i have many

i cant be 100% they have sent this so will sar them they have also added 3500 in charges.

 

Regards

 

Out Of Cash

nationwide cca.zip

[Docman]

OOC,

 

I think the document you have posted is an application without any of the prescribed terms. If these terms are supposedly in Nationwide's terms & conditions, then they will have to show the ones they produce were part of the same document you signed, not 'typical' or current ones.

[Curlyben]

Docman, whether or not the prescribed terms are in the T&C is rather academic as this isn't allowed in pre May 2005 agreements.

 

Here's the reason why, warning this gets a bit heavy.

 

This is taken from another thread;

Under SI 1983/1553 the prescribed terms MUST be within the signature document to be valid, having them on a seperate sheet headed T&C or similar ISN'T acceptable.

SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms MUST be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6)

This applies to all agreements pre May 2005.

So basically this is unenforceable, under 127(3).

 

Just to add to my comments re terms witin signature doc.

This was covered off in Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

 

Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated

consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Sch 6, but some does not. Contrasting

the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said

33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the

agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and

backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be

orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated.

As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and

the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which

are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the

minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1.

[The GodMother]

I think the agreement is unenforcable based on what CB have said.

[tomterm8]

Well, what date was the agreement signed? roughly.

 

also, can we have the default notice they say they sent you ?

 

Is this "agreement" what they sent you as the result of the civil disclosure request?

[illonavamp]

Hiya outofcash,

 

I dropped you a pm yesterday but just wanted to tell you that I won a case yesterday under the exact same circumstances (application sent as CCA). I think you've seen my thread you might find some interesting information there.

 

Nationwide first said my application was the cca.

THEN when I threw law with help from the guys here they said my T&C's were handed to me as a separate document at the time of application,

THEN when I threw some more law at them (that terms had to be within signed docco) they said it was on the reverse side of the signed application

More law thrown,

THEN they said that they can't find it the reverse side of the photocopy so they dropped the case.

 

Did I read somewhere that your next hearing is in November? jeeze that's a lonnnng time.

 

Subscribing.

[creditcardmug]

Hi

I'm my case is very similar to yours, i'm still waiting for a response to my CPR request sent to them on 6th march, and my A/Q has to be in by 22nd april

[out of cash]

hi tom,

 

my apologies in not getting back to you have had some personal problems.

anyway the latest is n wide were asked under the original cca request for cca and under the civil procedures rules on both accounts have supplied an application form very clear as to what this is with one prescribed term + my signiture the amont of credit is hand written and terms and conditions are in a separate doc which is completely ilegible.Whats worrying me is they have sent bundles of letters from their sols and are now going for summary judgement on 14th may. any advice would be most welcome i am going to send them some case law would that be a good or bad idea?

 

regards

 

out of cash

[out of cash]

hi all

 

my agreement was 1998.

[creditcardmug]

What is summary judgement? surely there has to be a full hearing, and the date of this would be set by the court, theres nothing NW can do to influence it.

Or have i got it all wrong

[tomterm8]

Can we see the application form? The one you uploaded is corrumpted. Maybe use imageshack to get it online.

[creditcardmug]

Agreement is in post 17

[tomterm8]

Agreement is in post 17

 

i can't read that one either.

[creditcardmug]

Tom you can read it if you open it in Adobe Photoshop and keep expanding it

[tomterm8]

No, I can't, i can't unzip it.