First Direct - Started the ball rolling, first letter

[carled]

Adapted from the library document!

 

Please would you provide me with a copy of all my statements from both my sole account no. xxxxxxxx and joint account xxxxxxxx for the last 6 years? This would encompass all dates from Jan 31st, 2000. I am aware that the information commissioner allows you to make a nominal charge for this service, which you may deduct from my sole account after you have confirmed the amount of the charge to me in writing.

 

Due to security reasons, my wife likes to shred our bank statements after a certain period and, although I have a few of the more recent statements, I do not have the complete record I require for analysis of the charges you have levied over the years.

 

I would also like to request a complete and exhaustive list of all charges made on both accounts over the last 6 years please, along with the few refunds you have given me of some of those charges. Again, I have some records of these, but as you always seem to have a record of these charges when I write to you, I believe you must have a simple way of accessing this information.

 

Please be aware that these are formal requests under the Data Protection Act (1998). As you are no doubt aware, you are afforded 40 days to comply with this request or you must request an extension from the Information Commissioner. If you are of any doubt that this information is covered by the act, may I respectfully draw your attention to the case of Durant v Lloyds TSB where the judge ruled that bank statement information is indeed personal information and thus covered. In any event, this information is requested with a view to prospective legal action on my part and therefore would be covered under the same act.

[diddled]

Do you mean Smith v Lloyds TSB ?

[carled]

erm... not according to the pro-forma first letter in the library section, no.

 

Although following some links, it appears that durant was vs. the FSA and was a barclays customer, so now I'm confused...

[diddled]

Check out the posts on the Legalities Page

It appears that Durant v Lloyds TSB was an error, should have been Durant v FSA

[BankFodder]

Sorry - my fault. I let the template go in without amending the error.

Sorry.

 

What is Smith v Lloyds?

 

BF

[diddled]

Smith v Lloyds TSB - ANOTHER DPA Case

 

Neutral Citation Number: [2005] EWHC 246 (Ch)

IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE

CHANCERY DIVISION

[carled]

Finally got copies of all my statements from them yesterday and have just gone through with a fine tooth comb...

 

£3137 in charges, less £223.25 I have managed to claw back from them over 6 years...

 

That leaves £2913.75 to demand back, let alone any interest if (when!) then don't play ball...

 

Here we go with the first letter then....!

[carled]

Finally got copies of all my statements from them yesterday and have just gone through with a fine tooth comb...

 

£3137 in charges, less £223.25 I have managed to claw back from them over 6 years...

 

That leaves £2913.75 to demand back, let alone any interest if (when!) then don't play ball...

 

Here we go with the first letter then....!

[carled]

Just done the maths properly using the spread sheet in the library (thanks for that!) and found another £100 refund they'd given me under protest in the past!

 

Would appreciate it if someone could just cast their eye over this letter to see if it seems reasonable to send tonight?

 

Cheers,

Carl

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: A/C numbers xxxxxxxxx & xxxxxxxx

 

Further to my letters dated 31st January and 10th February, 2006 I would like to thank you for supplying the requested statements. Having investigated these statements at length, I can see numerous occasions over the past 6 years where myself and my wife have been charged varying amounts for overdraft fees and excess overdraft fees.

 

It is my opinion, and that of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), that these charges are punitive in nature, not a genuine pre-estimate of cost and not intended to reimburse your losses for a breach of contract occurring. As you do not even send out letters as a matter of course, you cannot even claim that the charges are intended to cover your costs for letter writing and sending. In addition to the 1999 Consumer Credit Regulations quoted by the OFT, there are numerous cases in law that prove that punitive charges in contracts are unenforceable at English law such as Murray v Leisureplay (2004), Dunlop Tyre Company v New Garage and Motor Co. (1915) and Bridge v. Campbell Discount Co. Ltd. (1962) to mention but a few.

 

Additionally your charges are a direct breach of the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 which require that contract terms be reasonable. I do not believe these charges are reasonable as outlined in the aforementioned Act and, as I have mentioned to you on numerous occasions, penalty charges are unenforceable in court.

 

Accordingly I request that you return to me ALL charges (as detailed below) made on these account in the last 6 years, plus interest accruing at 8% APR as allowed by the County Courts Act (1984) by way of personal cheque within 7 days of receipt of this letter.

 

If you choose not to do so, I will start proceedings for recovery in the County Courts, as I firmly believe that legally I am entitled to this money back. You will also then be liable for my court costs.

 

Furthermore I would like to point out that the financial ombudsman appears to take a dim view of threats by banks to close the accounts of complaining customers. If you recall your letter to me dated 19th September 2005, you will see that you made threats to not only close both accounts, but also the credit card account and a personal loan held by my wife in the event that we insisted on a refund of some charges we were disputing. Any repeat of such threats will be fully documented and used in evidence in any court action we instigate.

 

Charge Details:

Sole account no. xxxxxxxx. Charges made: £1337.50, charges refunded £158.25, interest accrued (calculated on a daily basis from the date of the original charge) £410.91

Joint account no. xxxxxxxx. Charges made: £1799.50, charges refunded £165.00, interest accrued (calculated on a daily basis from the date of the original charge) £354.64

 

Total amounts

Charges: £3137.00

Interest accrued: £765.56

Less refunds to date: £323.25

 

Total amount repayable: £3579.31

 

Just for the purposes of clarification, the deadline by which I must receive a cheque to stop impending court action is 5pm on Thursday 2nd March, 2006.

 

The money received will be used in part to credit the joint account, which I notice you are still hitting heavily with penalty charges despite the account being past its agreed limit for only a few days near the end of each month just prior to the regular monthly credit into this account. In view of this letter, I would request that you stop adding these charges as firstly, once you refund the penalty charges detailed above, the account will be put into credit and secondly, any further charges incurred will be added to any court action we instigate, should that be necessary.

[carled]

Just done the maths properly using the spread sheet in the library (thanks for that!) and found another £100 refund they'd given me under protest in the past!

 

Would appreciate it if someone could just cast their eye over this letter to see if it seems reasonable to send tonight?

 

Cheers,

Carl

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: A/C numbers xxxxxxxxx & xxxxxxxx

 

Further to my letters dated 31st January and 10th February, 2006 I would like to thank you for supplying the requested statements. Having investigated these statements at length, I can see numerous occasions over the past 6 years where myself and my wife have been charged varying amounts for overdraft fees and excess overdraft fees.

 

It is my opinion, and that of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), that these charges are punitive in nature, not a genuine pre-estimate of cost and not intended to reimburse your losses for a breach of contract occurring. As you do not even send out letters as a matter of course, you cannot even claim that the charges are intended to cover your costs for letter writing and sending. In addition to the 1999 Consumer Credit Regulations quoted by the OFT, there are numerous cases in law that prove that punitive charges in contracts are unenforceable at English law such as Murray v Leisureplay (2004), Dunlop Tyre Company v New Garage and Motor Co. (1915) and Bridge v. Campbell Discount Co. Ltd. (1962) to mention but a few.

 

Additionally your charges are a direct breach of the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 which require that contract terms be reasonable. I do not believe these charges are reasonable as outlined in the aforementioned Act and, as I have mentioned to you on numerous occasions, penalty charges are unenforceable in court.

 

Accordingly I request that you return to me ALL charges (as detailed below) made on these account in the last 6 years, plus interest accruing at 8% APR as allowed by the County Courts Act (1984) by way of personal cheque within 7 days of receipt of this letter.

 

If you choose not to do so, I will start proceedings for recovery in the County Courts, as I firmly believe that legally I am entitled to this money back. You will also then be liable for my court costs.

 

Furthermore I would like to point out that the financial ombudsman appears to take a dim view of threats by banks to close the accounts of complaining customers. If you recall your letter to me dated 19th September 2005, you will see that you made threats to not only close both accounts, but also the credit card account and a personal loan held by my wife in the event that we insisted on a refund of some charges we were disputing. Any repeat of such threats will be fully documented and used in evidence in any court action we instigate.

 

Charge Details:

Sole account no. xxxxxxxx. Charges made: £1337.50, charges refunded £158.25, interest accrued (calculated on a daily basis from the date of the original charge) £410.91

Joint account no. xxxxxxxx. Charges made: £1799.50, charges refunded £165.00, interest accrued (calculated on a daily basis from the date of the original charge) £354.64

 

Total amounts

Charges: £3137.00

Interest accrued: £765.56

Less refunds to date: £323.25

 

Total amount repayable: £3579.31

 

Just for the purposes of clarification, the deadline by which I must receive a cheque to stop impending court action is 5pm on Thursday 2nd March, 2006.

 

The money received will be used in part to credit the joint account, which I notice you are still hitting heavily with penalty charges despite the account being past its agreed limit for only a few days near the end of each month just prior to the regular monthly credit into this account. In view of this letter, I would request that you stop adding these charges as firstly, once you refund the penalty charges detailed above, the account will be put into credit and secondly, any further charges incurred will be added to any court action we instigate, should that be necessary.

[BankFodder]

We are so busy that I don't have time to look it over. If it gives the message then it's OK.

 

I think that is is wordy - but that's just me.

I would cut to the chase.

 

See the new letter before action in the Library.

[BankFodder]

We are so busy that I don't have time to look it over. If it gives the message then it's OK.

 

I think that is is wordy - but that's just me.

I would cut to the chase.

 

See the new letter before action in the Library.

[molly-in-the-trolly]

Any news on first direct playing ball? I have sent letter to them today requesting details of all charges over 6 years of loyal custom.

 

I reckon though at a guess they owe us £10,000 not including interest as we have 3 accounts with them and have been charged about £150 per month

[molly-in-the-trolly]

Any news on first direct playing ball? I have sent letter to them today requesting details of all charges over 6 years of loyal custom.

 

I reckon though at a guess they owe us £10,000 not including interest as we have 3 accounts with them and have been charged about £150 per month

[BankFodder]

Any news on first direct playing ball? I have sent letter to them today requesting details of all charges over 6 years of loyal custom.

 

I reckon though at a guess they owe us £10,000 not including interest as we have 3 accounts with them and have been charged about £150 per month

Please will you start in a new thread. You are hijacking an existing thread.

[BankFodder]

Any news on first direct playing ball? I have sent letter to them today requesting details of all charges over 6 years of loyal custom.

 

I reckon though at a guess they owe us £10,000 not including interest as we have 3 accounts with them and have been charged about £150 per month

Please will you start in a new thread. You are hijacking an existing thread.

[carled]

OK - had a "form" response from First Direct. The standard, "sorry to hear you're unhappy, we're looking into it and will get back to you - here's our leaflet explaining how we deal with your compaint..."

 

Thing is... I must have been having a bad hair day when I sent the "letter before action" as I only gave them 7 days to send me a cheque, which expires at 5pm this Thursday, the 2nd March.

 

They've dated their letter the 24th Feb and said they'll ensure a reply "shortly", certainly within the "next 10 working days" which could take them to Friday 10th March.

 

Should I stick rigidly to my guns and go to the court action on Thursday, or was my 7 days too short a time and I need to give them the leeway they're after?

[carled]

Cheers Dave - much appreciated. Will keep things updated on here!

[monkey_uk]

Any update on this carled?

[carled]

OK... as Dave hypothesized... they didn't get in touch. Today was their (extended) deadline and not a thing in the post.

 

No more chances, I presume? Straight to moneyclaim online!

[monkey_uk]

Good luck!

 

I've today stumbled accross this site, and my first impression is that First Direct "owe me" about £1200 in fees going back roughly to 2002. I've not sent anything to them yet, not even a request for information under the DPA, but I'm going to get all the relevent documents and info over the weekend and send it on monday.

 

PLEASE keep this thread updated!

[richardc]

Monkey-uk. When you start your claim can you please start your own thread. Thanks,

[carled]

OK - quick bit of advice needed on this please.

 

A letter arrived in the post from them this morning stating, "it's taking longer to investigate than we thought. I assure you that you will receive a reply within the next 7 working days."

 

I originally gave them 7 days, they extended this to 14 and on Dave's advice I accepted. Now they're after ANOTHER 7 days and I think they're taking the pee.

 

Do I write to them and say, "no way" or do I just slap the court action in now?

[BankFodder]

Send the the Good News - as long as you are prepared

[carled]

Send the the Good News - as long as you are prepared

 

Morning Bankfodder - like the avatar!

 

Prepared in what way? I already have all the charge details and have done the spreadsheet correctly as mentioned earlier in the thread. I also have the template for the court form... there isn't anything else, is there?