Can i help?

[EthicalBusiness]

Hello,

 

I joined this website today after reading several posts from members regarding both the Co-operative and Smile banks.

 

I work in the debt management unit of the Co-operative Bank. Some people would also be aware that Smile bank is part of the Co-operative bank, and i also deal with customers from Smile.

 

What caused me to join the site (and please do not take offence) is the lack of focus by members of this site on the efforts made by the banks to assist those of you who may or may not have been in financial difficulties.

 

 

I join today with a simple gesture. How can i help you?

 

I read a post from user "anonman" (see http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/word-banks/76238-bank-charges-suggestion.html ) which met with some quite vicious replies. Granted the first post was quite blunt, but it's the one and only way of avoiding action being taken.

 

I appreciate there are those of you out there who have been in regular contact with your banks, asking for assistance, received none and then suffered charges as a consequence. I do feel sorry for those people. If i ever see such action being taken against a person, believe me, i make every effort to revert things to how they were before the issues began.

 

What i would like is that those of you who have a problem with the Co-operative and Smile banks simply air your views and i will give you the Debt Management aspect on how I deal with things, what you can and cannot do and what you can and cannot expect from the banks.

 

Please do not post negative comments regarding specific people in the bank, nor post names or direct contact telephone numbers. I am simply offering a Q&A. I will be neutral and hopefully many people can learn a few things about banking & avoid further charges.

 

Regards,

Anon.

 

[noomill060]

ethical- have you permission from the owners of this site to post? Bank employees are welcome, but you are required to seek permission to do so first.

[EthicalBusiness]

I tried to send a private message to bankfodder but the inbox is full.

 

I could not find a list of site administrators so instead of browsing the forums for their posts and hoping their inbox is not full, I will wait for one to contact me with their requests.

[noomill060]

bankfodder's inbox is always full

[EthicalBusiness]

If you would like to assist me, would you notify a site admin of my presence?

[noomill060]

Byee!

[gizmo111]

If you would like to assist me, would you notify a site admin of my presence?

 

Yes I have done as you request - please be patient they are very busy.

[noomill060]

Well, maybe not.

 

If you are genuine it would interesting to talk to you. A site helper has been alerted.

[EthicalBusiness]

I assume from your previous reply that you believed i have ulterior motives? I don't like to assume, it's a word thrown around nowadays, but if you care to sit back and wait, i'd be happy to assist anybody with their queries. I may have to guide people more to the point, i'm not here to discuss charges primarily, more how to avoid them. I would like to show the methods that retailers and banks use, the limitations of banking software, how to read and understand information given on the IVR and Internet Banking and so on. Rather than sit on a phone for 7 hours telling 25 people the same thing every day, i'll tell the hundreds or thousands of people on here.

[noomill060]

This should be good, eh, curley?

[noomill060]

The very legality of penalty charges is under consideration by the High Court and as a result many people are being frustrated in their legal right to challenge them, yet the banks continue to apply debits which are unlawful under Common Law.

 

Any thoughts?

[noomill060]

" I may have to guide people more to the point, i'm not here to discuss charges primarily, more how to avoid them."

 

The most sensible way would be for banks to suspend further charges of dubious legality pending the outcome of the test case.

[itsamomentintime]

can you help me with my POC's on my latest claim? I cannot seem to find section 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

 

Hang on, here it is:

 

Unfair Terms

5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as

unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties'rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

 

(3) Notwithstanding that a specific term or certain aspects of it in a contract has been individually negotiated, these Regulations shall apply to the rest of a contract if an overall assessment of it indicates that it is a pre-formulated standard contract.

 

(4) It shall be for any seller or supplier who claims that a term was individually negotiated to show that it was.

 

(5) Schedule 2 to these Regulations contains an indicative and non-exhaustive list of the terms which may be regarded as unfair

[noomill060]

As you claim to be in debt management, how do feel about pursuing people for debts made up wholey or partly of unlawful debits?

 

Do you inform people that they are at liberty to challenge these and thus reduce their liability to your bank, or do you continue to badger people into paying out money which they do not legally owe?

[EthicalBusiness]

This is not why i joined the website. There are many texts freely available to read on the site that give opinions as the legality and amount of charges.

 

In this respect, i'm not going to offer to debate the charges but offer my personal opinion instead.

 

My knowledge of English law is such that i cannot contest if charges are legal or not. The fact that charges have been applied for a long, long time would lead me to believe that logically, if it was illegal, they'd have been stopped a long time ago.

 

As for being charged by banks, this is something that's stated in the small print. I for one tend not to read small print, but i for one tend not to breach the terms and conditions.

 

For the people i speak to daily, my conern is that the amount of the charge is excessive in comparison to their income, who would care what the charge cost if they were earning more than minimum wage? If it's the principal that counts, then fair enough, nobody likes money being taken from them.

 

I too have been charged by the HSBC, Totalling £80 at Christmas 2005. It was my own blatant forgetfulness that caused this and i have not received a refund to this day. Please remember i'm not pro-charges, i'd like to get my £80 back, but there's ways of avoiding the charges in the first place.

[noomill060]

"i'd like to get my £80 back, but there's ways of avoiding the charges in the first place."

 

the point is HSBC werent legally allowed to debit your £80.

 

Just read the FAQs on this site and you will get your money back, after the test case and with all contractual interest levied thereon.

[gizmo111]

Could we please keep this debate civil - this guy has

come on here offering help - and I have alerted admn as requested.

At present we have no evidence to prove otherwise, so therfore could we all be nice? There have been bank workers on this forum that have proved invaluble in the fight against charges - just think Nattie and Whistleblower for a start.

[noomill060]

"For the people i speak to daily, my conern is that the amount of the charge is excessive in comparison to their income, "

 

This is neither here nor there.

 

The point is that banks are not legally allowed to debit penalties in excess of the cost to them caused by the breach of contract of the customer.

 

The law surrounding this is over 200 years old.

[EthicalBusiness]

noomill060, i am quite content with the fact i was charged and i am not going to request that the HSBC refund those charges.

 

I believe you've misunderstood my first post. I am here to explain why things happen within the bank i work for, and how to avoid it.

 

For example, why card payments take 3 days, why we pay them and not direct debits, why we authorise card payments and then you get charged. That's an exhaustive list JUST about debit card payments. The charge is £35, it is avoidable with the bank i work for and every other bank, i am simply waiting for someone to ask the right questions.

 

I am not here to be showboated with your "Section 5's" and "Legalities". I've already read posts from the website. I'm already aware of the legalities, i speak to people 7 hours a day about it and have done for several years.

[itsamomentintime]

hey i love section 5!!!

[noomill060]

OK then, are you in a position to be able quantify the cost to the bank for bouncing a direct debt for instance?

 

You state that the charge for this is £35.

[EthicalBusiness]

I'd like to be able to break it down but i don't believe anyone in my department has this information, not me the service representative, or the direct managers above me.

 

There are people discussing charges within the debt management department, i believe they're in a group of people across the bank.

 

To the best of my knowledge, there's a lot involved in the bounce of a direct debit. I would offer my personal opinion

which in no way reflects the banks opinion, but it does get a bit random. Like, electricity bills to power the computers that run your accounts, data storage, the contract for printing letters, heating for the employees to sit and talk to the customers who then ring in about the charge. It all has to come from somewhere. Just like a parking ticket should pay for the roads we use. But like i've said, that's a bit random.

[noomill060]

"I too have been charged by the HSBC, Totalling £80 at Christmas 2005. It was my own blatant forgetfulness that caused this and i have not received a refund to this day. Please remember i'm not pro-charges, i'd like to get my £80 back, "

 

 

"noomill060, i am quite content with the fact i was charged and i am not going to request that the HSBC refund those charges."

 

 

Make up your mind, ethical.

 

 

This site is about the legalities of penalty charges.

 

We all know how to avoid charges "just stay in credit" not possible for many people, especially when banks compound a penalty charge for a small unauthorised short term overdraft into a large debt.

 

(Hello to our guests)

[noomill060]

Heard it all before, ethical.

 

It doesnt add up.

[EthicalBusiness]

Exactly, it's not that easy, that's why i have a job where i do, if people weren't in financial difficulties, i imagine i'd still be at my old job with the Co-operative Retail head office instead.

 

Just so you know, i'm not a debt collector, i rehabilitate. After 8 minutes i can really change how people perceive the bank to be a mindless charging unethical machine, to a very Co-operative bank that simply wants the contact it needs.

 

Sometimes i've spent 45 minutes just speaking to someone telling them things they'd never known about banking. I know it's not easy to stay in credit, again, that's why i signed up. I'm not telling people not to go over their overdraft, just how to avoid charges if it's about to happen.