CCA request to Aktiv Kapital re 2 JDW accounts

[MoonHawk]

Cheers Curly Although they can argue the point all they like, the important bit is that they bought the debt (don't care how) without checking it is accompanied by a valid agreement as defined by law

 

Having read them again, MTAR's letter reads much better than my original. Thanks again

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[Curlyben]

Now why should they want to let something like enforceable paperwork get in the way of enforcing an alleged debt ?

[MoonHawk]

Don't care as long as they are willing to explain the money laundering. OFT and TS might not act but i am not so sure they can evade Financial Crime Branch.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[conar686]

Don't care as long as they are willing to explain the money laundering. OFT and TS might not act but i am not so sure they can evade Financial Crime Branch.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

Moon

 

I'm sure I've read somewhere on here that Financial Crime Branch aren't interested in crimes to do with consumer rights and just refer all such queries back to OFT/TS.

 

Another self licking lollipop

[MoonHawk]

It is not consumer rights. I am not asking for my rights to be enforced. I am asking there to be an investigation into an organisation purchasing debts that may or may not exists as their procedures do not include any verification into the validity of the debt and more importantly where it comes from?

 

What if a criminal organisation was behind the debt and they are not ensuring important paper trail is kept?

 

FCB do not mess around and I would not personally mess with them. If they are willing to test and see of FCB will act or not, I am game

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[conar686]

It is not consumer rights. I am not asking for my rights to be enforced. I am asking there to be an investigation into an organisation purchasing debts that may or may not exists as their procedures do not include any verification into the validity of the debt and more importantly where it comes from?

 

What if a criminal organisation was behind the debt and they are not ensuring important paper trail is kept?

 

FCB do not mess around and I would not personally mess with them. If they are willing to test and see of FCB will act or not, I am game

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

Perhaps criminal activity associated with consumers rights might have been a better choice of words on my part, Moon.

 

Give the FCB a whirl by all means I'll be interested to see the outcome, all I'm saying is, don't be disappointed if the respond in the -ve

[MoonHawk]

Not sure if it makes tat much of a difference, especially in the light that of the way that some of these companies buy these debts and avoid tax by storing documents off-shore.

 

They must, amongst other things, show due diligence in ensuring all contractual documents are kept.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[MoonHawk]

Letter is on it's way Recorded Delivery.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[conar686]

Email on my complaint to FoS. Really helpful

 

Thank you for your e-mail and attachments.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but your complaint does not appear to be one we are able to deal with.

That is because the business you have complained about only became covered by us on 6 April 2007, and we have no authority to deal with complaints against it about things that happened before that date.

As the complaint has been completed the date complained is 04/02/2007.

From what you have told me, your complaint is about something that happened before 6 April 2007 which means that even though you are still in dispute with the firm we are not able to look into the matter.

 

However the Finance & Leasing Association may be able to advise you and their contact details are:-

 

Imperial House

15-19 Kingsway

London

WC2B 6UN

Tel: 0207 8366511

Fax: 0207 4209600

Web Site: http://www.fla.org.uk/

e-mail: info@fla.org.uk

[Curlyben]

The FLA are about as much use as a chocolate tea pot

[conar686]

The FLA are about as much use as a chocolate tea pot

 

Suspected as much, the prob now is that AK are awaiting FoS arbitration b4 re-commencing collection activities. No arbitration where do we go but court.

 

ho hum:sad:

[MoonHawk]

The FLA are about as much use as a chocolate tea pot

At least you can eat a chocolate tea pot!

 

FLA are an association, how can they be expected to investigate their own members who finance them? Nonsense.

 

Not sure what to say.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[MoonHawk]

Suspected as much, the prob now is that AK are awaiting FoS arbitration b4 re-commencing collection activities. No arbitration where do we go but court.

 

ho hum:sad:

Did AK Ask for you to go to FoS for arbitration? If so did you make that clear to FoS that AK recognise their authority in this? Not sure of legalities here but if both side recognise the arbitrator then what is the problem?

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[medsec]

The person who wrote that email is barely literate. It's all repetitions and nonsense.... Wishing you all the best!

[conar686]

Did AK Ask for you to go to FoS for arbitration? If so did you make that clear to FoS that AK recognise their authority in this? Not sure of legalities here but if both side recognise the arbitrator then what is the problem?

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

Good idea Moon - I'll respond to FoS person with that & see where it takes us. I basically received AKs final response on the matter and they refuse to correspond further. My last letter got a compliments slip with a scribble saying you've had our final response.

[conar686]

The person who wrote that email is barely literate. It's all repetitions and nonsense.... Wishing you all the best!

 

Thanx you get used to that

[MoonHawk]

AK still have not responded to my letter, I am giving the benefit of the doubt regarding the postal strike. I had given them 14days which is up on teh 19th from when they received the letter.

 

They have added the accounts to the Credit file, which were not there before, so maybe they are calling my bluff and it may be that I have to go via the courts. I'll give them another week or two as i am busy this week anyway and then see if they respond or not.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[MoonHawk]

Well I guess it's off to court we will go when I get some time to prepare.

 

Just received their reply.... my comments in red.

Your letter leads us to believe that you have mis-understood our formal notices of assignment dated 25th May 2007. These communications did in no way imply that Aktiv Kapital UK Limited had taken absolute assignment of both accounts, but confirmed that we had been legally assigned them. We re-iterate that we have taken legal assignment of both Mrs MoonHawks' accounts.

Surely legal assignement of an accounbt is absolute? The OC have said they retain the responsibilities and have sold teh debt, which is fair enough, but AK keep saying thay have been assigned the account. I am sure they say this because they then belive they can sue. Any legal bods care to comment?

 

Your reference to s189 of the Consumer Credit Act is noted and we would like to refer you to the following paragraph included in our letter dated 23rd August, which clearly states that we did not take on the liabilities of the original creditor.

 

The Credit Services Association, of which this company is a member, advises in its guidelines that the debt sale process can be complex. However it states that members of the Association are to deal with requests under section 77(1) as though they were the originating creditor, in so far as they are able to. The CSA states that it is up to each member on an individual basis to decide how far to comply with the Act. It is the decision of this group to seek to adhere to the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act as much as possible, but we repeat that we have not inherited the liabilities of the original creditor.

I addressed this in the very letter they are responding to! CSA can not say it is up to the individual company how to comply with an Act. I love them to use that in court.

 

We note that you make reference to Section 175 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, however your comments are irrelevant, as this Section of the Act refers to persons deemed to be agents, which we are not. Our comments above apply.

Can someone correct me please if I am wrong. But under teh CCA, does a compnay become an Agent if they are acting on the account and not the Creditor?

 

Aktiv Kapital UK Limited are associated with many of the major financial associations in Europe and all accounts are assigned to, and accepted by ourselves in good faith. As previously stated we are legally assigned the right to collect outstanding debt balances.

The accounts are assigned in good faith? That means they are admitting they do not check the validity of the debts passed to them? Anyone has any ideas of where this can go? Rory?

 

You request that the accounts be reduced to nil balance. We are unable to do this. Mrs MoonHawks acknowledged these debts when she chose to make payments on the accounts. If there was any doubt on Mrs MoonHawks part as to the validity of the agreements then we feel that she had a responsibility to raise this with JD Williams Limited before making such acknowledgment. Nonsense ... if that was the case then we should pack up sjop and not fight penalty charges. We will also not be removing any information recorded with the Credit Reference Agencies, as such data is factual information and was correctly registered as a result of non-payment of the accounts.

Inaccurately recoded as there was no default notice in the first place.

 

May we once again refer you to our generous offer of settlement of the accounts, given in our letter dated 23rd August 2007, which has now been extended to 26th October 2007.

 

We are aware of our limitations when dealing with disputed accounts and can confirm that until wehear further from you or your legal representatives we will not:

* Incur charges on the accounts

* Instruct a third party to act on our behalf

* Issue defaults on the accounts, as these already exist

Nice to at least do that.

 

Further to the above, we must advise that we shall not enter into any further correspondence with you in this matter, unless with regards to payment.

You keep saying that but keep replying

 

We reserve the right to litigate and to produce a copy of this letter to any Court, on the subject of costs.

Please take me to court. But oh yeah you can't as there is no CCA. But I guess I have to to get them to remove the Default.

 

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[make them aktiv runners]

Here's my comments.

Your letter leads us to believe that you have mis-understood our formal notices of assignment dated 25th May 2007. These communications did in no way imply that Aktiv Kapital UK Limited had taken absolute assignment of both accounts, but confirmed that we had been legally assigned them. An admittance that the assignment is Equitable as they are clearly trying to avoid a false statement that it was absolute.We re-iterate that we have taken legal assignment of both Mrs MoonHawks' accounts. Surely legal assignement of an accounbt is absolute? Very clever of Aktiv Kapital to raise this as a question as they clearly cannot make a statement saying they took absolute legal assignment when they know they did not (duties would have gone and they would be creditor for an absolute assignment).

Your reference to s189 of the Consumer Credit Act is noted and we would like to refer you to the following paragraph included in our letter dated 23rd August, which clearly states that we did not take on the liabilities of the original creditor. Would love to wind them up a bit more, ie why are they referring to “original” creditor when they are indeed claiming the creditor has not changed. Judging by previous letters (poor grammar etc), I would say they have not quite grasped the English language yet

The Credit Services Association, of which this company is a member, advises in its guidelines that the debt sale process can be complex. However it states that members of the Association are to deal with requests under section 77(1) as though they were the originating creditor, in so far as they are able to. The CSA states that it is up to each member on an individual basis to decide how far to comply with the Act. It is the decision of this group to seek to adhere to the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act as much as possible, but we repeat that we have not inherited the liabilities of the original creditor. It is hilarious that the group of DCA’s could not come to a common agreement in the guidelines written by themselves, shows just how divided they and their cronies are!

We note that you make reference to Section 175 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, however your comments are irrelevant, as this Section of the Act refers to persons deemed to be agents, which we are not. Our comments above apply.

Funny that because the CCA gives rights to creditors and their agents. Thanks Aktiv Kapital for your creative thoughts, I would argue you are agent, but taking your claim means you have well and truly shot yourselves in the foot! As you have admitted you have absolutely no entitlement under the CCA to request any form of payment, you will be getting precisely nothing.

Aktiv Kapital UK Limited are associated with many of the major financial associations in Europe and all accounts are assigned to, and accepted by ourselves in good faith. As previously stated we are legally assigned the right to collect outstanding debt balances.

I think we have all worked out that these CCA’s are unenforceable in 99% of cases, so really “good faith” is all they could do. Suggest that as they now know they have bought an unenforceable alleged debt, they take issues with the party who sold it instead of persecuting Mrs Moonhawk.

You request that the accounts be reduced to nil balance. We are unable to do this. Mrs MoonHawks acknowledged these debts when she chose to make payments on the accounts. If there was any doubt on Mrs MoonHawks part as to the validity of the agreements then we feel that she had a responsibility to raise this with JD Williams Limited before making such acknowledgment. Aktiv Kapital, can you clarify “chose” was indeed the case rather than “pressurised” being as they are not making a statement from factual evidence but assumption on a small element of data. We will also not be removing any information recorded with the Credit Reference Agencies, as such data is factual information and was correctly registered as a result of non-payment of the accounts.

On what grounds was it correctly registered? They’ve clearly stated they have no entitlement as either creditor or agent under the CCA therefore cannot use CRA reporting under the very same act, neither can you produce evidence that Mrs Moonhawk’s permission was given. Sorry Aktiv Kapital but there is absolutely nothing about CRA reporting in your chosen LoP Act so you are stuffed there too.

May we once again refer you to our generous offer of settlement of the accounts, given in our letter dated 23rd August 2007, which has now been extended to 26th October 2007. I think it is reasonable to make this offer available until such time that they are able to explain under the CCA how they are able to collect, as they are neither creditor nor agent, also provide the CCA as absolute proof of the alleged debt. The extension shows they are getting desperate.

 

We are aware of our limitations when dealing with disputed accounts and can confirm that until wehear further from you or your legal representatives we will not:

* Incur charges on the accounts

* Instruct a third party to act on our behalf

* Issue defaults on the accounts, as these already exist

Strange offer, as without the CCA and absolute assignment they cannot do any of above.

 

Further to the above, we must advise that we shall not enter into any further correspondence with you in this matter, unless with regards to payment.

Surely the FOS fee of £400 would not be discussed with you!

We reserve the right to litigate and to produce a copy of this letter to any Court, on the subject of costs.

Aktiv Kapital are going to have to explain how they can chase an alleged CCA debt without being subject to the CCA itself. Under the CCA then the creditor must be party, cannot quite see how Aktiv Kapital can be added as an extra party either when they are not part of the CCA.

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

There’s an invitation to write about anything.

[MoonHawk]

Here's my comments.

Your letter leads us to believe that you have mis-understood our formal notices of assignment dated 25th May 2007. These communications did in no way imply that Aktiv Kapital UK Limited had taken absolute assignment of both accounts, but confirmed that we had been legally assigned them. An admittance that the assignment is Equitable as they are clearly trying to avoid a false statement that it was absolute.We re-iterate that we have taken legal assignment of both Mrs MoonHawks' accounts. Surely legal assignement of an accounbt is absolute? Very clever of Aktiv Kapital to raise this as a question as they clearly cannot make a statement saying they took absolute legal assignment when they know they did not (duties would have gone and they would be creditor for an absolute assignment).

 

Sorry. My mistake... the bit now in Blue was my addition .. I didn't colour it red.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[NitrousOxide]

They aren't agents, don't have the duties and it's only equitable. How can they ask for money exactly?

[make them aktiv runners]

They aren't agents, don't have the duties and it's only equitable. How can they ask for money exactly?

 

They have readily admitted that they have no entitlement to pursue a CCA debt under the CCA 74, so it is a pretty pointless exercise on their part now.

[make them aktiv runners]

Sorry. My mistake... the bit now in Blue was my addition .. I didn't colour it red.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

Legal assignment can be Equitable or Absolute. Their letters are intended to mislead as absolute when it is really Equitable. Yes, they are probably hoping to put court action as a "threat" to those who do not read their letters carefully, eg Aktiv are good at using the word "may" which most people miss by simply reading action WILL follow, as you question their letters they up the legal understanding with what areotherwise misleading one-liners.

 

TBH, after reading the antics of Cabot and Ruthbridge, Aktiv do come across as less confident in pushing their luck.

[MoonHawk]

No letters or calls for weeks now. But they have put up two records with the CRAs. The OC did not have any registered in the copy of the report in September, but they appear in October with a default registered.

 

I've had enough. Busy this week, but will step it up in a couple of weeks by asking them to produce prrof of default or face litigation.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[Vagabond_UK]

I CCA'd them at the beginning of last year through Wescot who ultimately returned the account to AK.

 

I've had a letter from AK since pursuing the debt ... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/118284-aktiv-kapital-continuing-saga-new-post.html