~~Stays - Info and discussion ~~

[zootscoot]

Some basic info can be found here.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/108430-stays-info-guidance.html

 

It might be useful to ask questions, discuss and post experiences here.

[Michael Browne]

A-Z'd and Wiki'd here:

Stays re: OFT Test Case

[Destinyofsouls]

Thank you for the template letters for these, however, could someone just clear up a rew things for me.

 

The banks are automatically going to ask for a stay I understand so:

 

1 Can we pre-empt this and send the letter in to the court with a covering letter saying I understand that the bank will apply for a stay, if they do, then this is my reply etc....

2 If the bank apply at the directions/full hearing stage in court, how do we approach that, as we cannot reads the letter out etc..

3 If a stay is granted by the judge , we have to pay the £35 to appeal? Is that worth it as it was the judge that ordered it and unlikely to overturn it?

4 If an appeal is granted until the result of the test case, is that set in stone, or can it be revoked if something else develops after the 7/14 days?

5 Abbeys defence is based on fees for a service ( test case) their normal defence was on the basis of breach of contract. Would there be another letter more beneficial to Abbeys application for a stay?

[Destinyofsouls]

or not?

[Destinyofsouls]

some other time maybe?

[Camdenite]

Wish I could help. Just giving it a gentle bump.

[chezt]

Wish I could help. Just giving it a gentle bump.

 

me too!

[Destinyofsouls]

And me !

[pjdavies2000]

Have a look here - it's not much, but it is something at last!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/86384-barclays-3-accounts-7.html#post1055148

 

Peter

[chezt]

well u can't knock us for trying hey! ;-)

[chezt]

Thank you for the template letters for these, however, could someone just clear up a rew things for me.

 

The banks are automatically going to ask for a stay I understand so:

 

1 Can we pre-empt this and send the letter in to the court with a covering letter saying I understand that the bank will apply for a stay, if they do, then this is my reply etc....

2 If the bank apply at the directions/full hearing stage in court, how do we approach that, as we cannot reads the letter out etc..

3 If a stay is granted by the judge , we have to pay the £35 to appeal? Is that worth it as it was the judge that ordered it and unlikely to overturn it?

4 If an appeal is granted until the result of the test case, is that set in stone, or can it be revoked if something else develops after the 7/14 days?

5 Abbeys defence is based on fees for a service ( test case) their normal defence was on the basis of breach of contract. Would there be another letter more beneficial to Abbeys application for a stay?

anyone?

[zootscoot]

Hope this answers a few questions

Thank you for the template letters for these, however, could someone just clear up a rew things for me.

 

The banks are automatically going to ask for a stay I understand so:

 

1 Can we pre-empt this and send the letter in to the court with a covering letter saying I understand that the bank will apply for a stay, if they do, then this is my reply etc....yes

2 If the bank apply at the directions/full hearing stage in court, how do we approach that, as we cannot reads the letter out etc..Directions hearings you can simply hand the judge the template as there is no need to submit evidence in advance generally. If the request for a stay is sprung on you at the final hearing, I don't see why the judge would object to you challenging this with the template. So take one with you just in case.

3 If a stay is granted by the judge , we have to pay the £35 to appeal? Is that worth it as it was the judge that ordered it and unlikely to overturn it? £35 to set aside the stay rather than appeal. A court may stay the claim by its own initiative with out giving you the opportunity to raise objections, alternatively the bank may request a stay which is granted by the judge. If you have already been given the opportunity to object to the stay and you have submitted your reasons its probably not worth appealing against the decision. If the stay is imposed without you putting forward any submissions it may be worth asking for the stay to be set aside so that you can put forward your reasons. At present it is difficult to predict what is the likely outcome and it may well turn out to be a fruitless task. There is also likely to be inconsistencies emerging from different courts.

4 If an appeal is granted until the result of the test case, is that set in stone, or can it be revoked if something else develops after the 7/14 days? Not sure I understand what you are asking. Sorry.

5 Abbeys defence is based on fees for a service ( test case) their normal defence was on the basis of breach of contract. Would there be another letter more beneficial to Abbeys application for a stay? Not really since the OFT has stated the test case will look at both UTCCR and penalties.

[skintcumbrian]

My hearing is next Thursday 9th August. I phoned the court last week and they said business as usual. Then this morning receive a letter from D&G saying they are planning to apply for a stay in light of the OFT case. I haven't seen a copy of this letter anywhere else on the forum yet as it is a new development and don't have a scanner but will type it up if anyone needs to read it and see what line D&G are taking.

 

I am going to post to the court today one of the templates about removal of the stay, marginally amended as no stay has yet been given of course, and will also take a copy of it to the hearing - which up to now as far as I am aware is going ahead. I think I should also send a copy to D&G so they know that we are not just going to lie down and let them bulldoze us.

 

Will post developments next week.....and hope that all others whose hearings are imminent keep everyone informed too so we can see what is developing. Cheers

[zootscoot]

Best of luck!

 

Don't forget to keep us posted.

 

Which court is this?

[skintcumbrian]

Received this am, dated 31/07/07

 

my name v HSBC Bank Plc

Court address claim number xxxxx

 

We refer to the above matter. You have referred your complaint about bank charges for determination to the court.

 

We are confident that HSBC's charges are fair, transparent and lawful.

 

Since you filed your claim to Court, HSBC (along with a number of other banks) has become involved in legal proceedings with the Office of Fair Trading ("OFT") in relation to bank charges which we believe will resolve the legal issues regarding the fairness and legality of your bank charges.

 

We will be applying to the Court for an order to stay your action until resolution of the bank's proceedings with the OFT.

 

Given the court case our client has asked the Financial Ombudsman Service ("FOS") not to proceed with any other case they are hearing until the test case is resolved. FOS has indicated that as a general proposition it will indeed not proceed with cases which rely on the legal issues being considered in the test case.

 

Our client asked the Financial Services Authority ("FSA") to suspend the normal timetable for dealing with bank charges complaints, and the FSA has agreed to this request subject to conditions that protect your rights.

 

We will keep you updated appropriately about the proceedings with the OFT. You can also check the latest position on our client's website at hsbc.co.uk.

 

We can assure you we have registered and stored your complaint. Please reatin your bank records, as this will make it easier for you to support your complaint on resolution of the test case. Once the legal proceedings between OFT and the banks finish, our client will resolve your complaint as quickly as possible.

 

As a general matter, we will ensure that your claim will not be adversely affected by the stay of your court proceedings.

 

Yours faithfully

 

D&G Solicitors

[skintcumbrian]

Penrith in Cumbria. I think that D&G will be applying for stays on every case with a hearing date already because no blanket stay has been granted by the Master of Rolls. And that they will apply for stays on all new cases that go to court, just as a matter of course. What I hope we will see is that some judges (preferably all) will decide not to grant stays and let the hearings go ahead.

 

I'm fed up with waiting now. Since I issued my MCOL the bank charges I have been charged for going over my overdraft limit have soared from £50-£75/month to £150/month and the only reason I have ever gone over my overdraft limit is because of the charges. So, since March, HSBC have taken another £750 off me, just because they increased their charges when I issued my MCOL. And out of my benefits, I am now losing £150 (25%) each month to the bank just in charges, which makes bringing up two small kids on my own and keeping up my mortage (also with HSBC but not for much longer) almost impossible. And now all my standing orders, access to my account etc have been stopped so how on earth we pay the next electricity bill, I have no idea. If they slap on £150 each month until the OFT test case, they could have taken a further £750 by Christmas, or even more if the test case goes on a year. Currently, my only way out appears to be to get yet further into debt which I never wanted to be in in the first place. I _can_ live within my means if the bank don't screw me!

 

Arg!

[zootscoot]

You need to include all that info in your request for a stay. Hopefully the courts will listen. The threat of stays will affect many people very badly.

 

I do hope the courts will take account of this

[pjdavies2000]

I'm sorry that your situation has got so bad skint, and that the OFT and FSO and FSA have all screwed us all over for the sake of keeping the banks appeased.

 

I would suggest you tell the judge what you have written here. Some judges are strating to already add conditions to stays, and you may be able to persuade the judge that an agreement from the bank to limit their own charges to you, to be no more than one charge per period, for a period of six months, or until the test case has been resolved, whichever is the sooner. This will allow you time to reassert your finances, and reduce the likelyhood of creating further charges in the future.

 

Say you understand this asking alot of the judge and the bank, but feel that in the circumstances, and as a rather gracious leniancy has been awarded the bank by the OFT and FSO, that the limiting of charges to your account would be accepted as a gesture of goodwill towards both myself and the OFT and FSOs gesture of goodwill, whilst also allowing you the time to rectify a serious financial hardship on your account.

 

Not sure if that would work - but then what have you to lose!

 

Generally, the judges seem to have been sympathtic to the claimants, and say their hands are tied by the test case - however, with the above you are not asking for the stay to be lifted, but that some leniancy be offered to you that could reduce the need for a further case upon the completion of this one.

 

Hope that helps

 

Peter

[jules1973]

Looks like quite a lot of us will be peeved over the next couple of weeks as I received this in the post this morning.......

 

Further to your email dated 30th July to the court, i can confirm that all small claims regarding bank charges within this court are being stayed pending the outcome of the proceedings currently under way in the High court.

 

I can confirm that due to the high volume of such claims within this court, there is a slight delay in the processing of the Orders staying the claims. However, the appropriate orders should be sent out within the next couple of weeks.

[gazebo]

I would have a whole lot more confidence in these proceedings if the FSA and OFT had agreed with the banks that they wouldn't collect any charges pending the outcome of the test case. That would have been fair and equitable.

[Varangian3]

I'm fed up with waiting now. Since I issued my MCOL the bank charges I have been charged for going over my overdraft limit have soared from £50-£75/month to £150/month and the only reason I have ever gone over my overdraft limit is because of the charges. So, since March, HSBC have taken another £750 off me, just because they increased their charges when I issued my MCOL. And out of my benefits, I am now losing £150 (25%) each month to the bank just in charges, which makes bringing up two small kids on my own and keeping up my mortage (also with HSBC but not for much longer) almost impossible. And now all my standing orders, access to my account etc have been stopped so how on earth we pay the next electricity bill, I have no idea. If they slap on £150 each month until the OFT test case, they could have taken a further £750 by Christmas, or even more if the test case goes on a year. Currently, my only way out appears to be to get yet further into debt which I never wanted to be in in the first place. I _can_ live within my means if the bank don't screw me!

 

Arg!

 

skint - benefits are protected by law for their purpose and no bank has a right to take them. You should write to them pointing this out, as you have legal redress against this.

 

Can you transfer the benefit payment into a parachute account just for this purpose? That would be the simplest way to ensure that they cannot take it again.

 

Looking on the positive side, recovering benefits taken by a bank is one of the strongest possible grounds for applying to have a stay lifted. If the stay is to be placed automatically (as you say) then you should start now getting your ideas together for lifting the stay. Assuming that you did not mention the benefits being taken when you filed MCOL (which probably doesn't allow the space anyway), then the court has no idea of your predicament re the benefits. You should be able to provide a solid case for a judge based on this that would permit your claim to continue on the basis of hardship and unlawful removal of your benefits.

 

If the stay was still not lifted, you would have a wonderful press opportunity to expose this that could shame the courts and bring about a settlement.

 

Also note the time frames here. Despite the original propaganda that the test cases would be done 'later this year' it is already being made clear that the test cases are not scheduled before Jan/Feb 2008. The banks will drag this out as long as possible, while the OFT is too inept and spineless to stand up to them. The best estimate I have read is a year, and many people are saying that with appeals this could drag on for years. In your position, you must fight any stay, so get working now on your stay lifting application, and the details of the case that will secure your success.

 

I hope this helps a little.

 

Varangian

[Destinyofsouls]

Thanks Zoot