Lloyds TSB Andover Recovery Centre. - Success

[kits1893]

I for one do not dispute that they are entitled to levy a charge however i do dispute the excessive nature of the existing charges.quote]

 

So we are starting to agree that partial settlement is a fair outcome??

 

For example of a £30 charge, if £10 would be a reasonable charge, then of a £1800 claim then £1200 would be a reasonable settlement?

 

(Bring on the 50 posts stating that the actual cost to the bank is more like £2!!!)

 

If a payment that takes you over your limit is to a car loan company, and your bank makes that payment it will charge you £30. If they don't make the payment the car loan company will take your car, charge you an inflated settlement amount on the loan, charge you for baliffs to come and take it, and charge you court fees.

 

What's the difference, and what would you prefere???

[John72]

Kits

 

It seems like we're almost in a position of people saying to you "on the count of three I will snap my fingers and you will wake up....".

 

I have no doubt as to your feelings but the facts really do not bear out all you say. For instance, on a claim of £20,000 one may be minded to be happy with a settlement of £13,000 but the fact is that at no stage does that seem to have been offered. So, as I originally said, in the absence of that (and in the absence of any cogent authority that a charge of £2 or £10 - or whatever - is "reasonable") what alternative is there other than to make a formal claim?

 

I suspect your counter to that may be that negotiating with LTSB is a better approach - and if that worked I would be the first to agree with you. In my own case I have had exhaustive correspondence with them and they have flatly refused to enter into any more correspondence with me; beyond the £750 "goodwill gesture" they have not made any other offer and have declined to negotiate a settlement. Indeed, a lady at Andover advised me to commence legal action as that was the only way they were paying out at levels beyond the £750!

 

To me it seemed I had no alternative but to commence action, much as I would have liked to have maintained a positive banking relationship, as I was being presented with an "all or nothing" option by the Bank - as are many others on this site.

 

I do know that the local and area business banking managers at LTSB are rather bemused at the approach taken by Andover and their Solicitors as it is frustrating the good relationships they are seeking to create with their business and personal customers. I also know that the LTSB solicitors are normally involved in debt collecting for LTSB rather than debt defending and they are clearly overwhelmed by the number of cases they are having to deal with. However, that is only because of a clear policy by LTSB not to "roll over" on this issue without making it as hard as possible to obtain refunds, for fear of an even more overwhelming "opening of the flood gates" to additional claimants previously put off by the thought of instigating Court action.

 

Sorry for the ramble! It's just that if there was genuinely a better, and easier, alternative then I, and I am sure many others, would have taken it.

[royboy68]

The problem is Kits that even though some of us do agree that a charge with a small profit wouldnt be as bad, the banks dont agree and at the moment are actively attempting to get people over the limit and are reluctant to help on short term problems. The Lloyds TSB have a policy that if you are bad once then there is no help forthcoming for you.

The bigest problem i find with the banking system is the DD scheme which the bank fully supports in conjuction with suppliers. A lot of people live from week to week and the DD system dosnt allow for this. I for one have started to get a few firms to agree to standing order payments that neither the firms or the banks are to happy about. At least with that its me that controls when they get paid. The best solution i have found for my situation is to divide payments by 4 and pay standing orders weekly, at least this way i will get ahead with payments.

[muggyno1]

Kits,

 

Unless Lloyds change their policy you will not get more from them. It is now senior management policy at Lloyds to offer a max of £750 or force you down the court or FOS route.

 

I naively tried what you are going to try, thinking that they would be reasonable. They delayed at every turn for three months until I gave up and went down the FOS route, now fully resolved.

 

Remember that the banks forced people down this route in the first place by being intransigent.

 

Watch this space. Either the Yorkshire Bank test case or the OfT enquiry will establish a maximum chargeable amount for returned D/Ds etc. Then the banks will take as long as possible to implement that, while only returning the difference between actual charges and the set max amount. In the end they will implement a new charging structure at the maximum possible level while circumventing the law when they can.

 

If you think that this is overly cynical just think about how most of them have behaved to this point.

 

Cheers.

 

Muggy

[kits1893]

So which Lloyds TSB Branch do you work at then?

 

Please......

[Charlies Angel]

My claim is for £5K and feel quite offended that you consider this my fault. An error one month, usually timing (I get paid cash and work during banking hours so it can be difficult to bank at times) creates charges which causes shortfalls the next which = more charges. They are unlawfully high and have therefore ripped us off for years! and as for us taking their money, they charge us interest on this anyway.

I was too scared to take the bank to court so I tried a last ditch attempt to get them to help me with this vicious circle by waiving one months charges, their reply was to offer me a loan, making them even more money! Thank goodness for CAG for giving me the help to claim back what is rightfully mine. Good luck anyway

[kits1893]

My claim is for £5K and feel quite offended that you consider this my fault.

 

Apologies. I genuinly mean no offence to anyone. As this is an open forum I am speaking from my personal experiences. Everyones experiences are different.

[kits1893]

Well it now seems as if no-one will be getting anywhere soon with these charges no matter what route you have gone down.

I knew it would happen, as I said before, but didn't think it would be this fast.

Those who are in comunication with your banks and branches, enjoy the wait. The outcome you recieve will now be the same as for each and every person who is involved in a claim, which will be whatever the outcome of the test case is! You will get it with no extra outlay, but it will take months if not years.

For those who have gone down the court route and are waiting for an outcome or court date, un lucky! There is no way you will now be able to claim back your court / legal fees as your case will be shelved until after the test case and the same decision given to you as everyone else.

Those who, like me have taken a gesture or part payment, wait for the outcome of the test and then get in the cue for whatever decision is made to be given to you. Better than to have made an outlay in terms of court costs that you will probably lose.

Good luck to all.

[dolly]

Well it now seems as if no-one will be getting anywhere soon with these charges no matter what route you have gone down.

I knew it would happen, as I said before, but didn't think it would be this fast.

Those who are in comunication with your banks and branches, enjoy the wait. The outcome you recieve will now be the same as for each and every person who is involved in a claim, which will be whatever the outcome of the test case is! You will get it with no extra outlay, but it will take months if not years.

For those who have gone down the court route and are waiting for an outcome or court date, un lucky! There is no way you will now be able to claim back your court / legal fees as your case will be shelved until after the test case and the same decision given to you as everyone else.

 

Have you actually read around since the test case was announced?

Obviously not as you would realise that yes, whilst some people have had their cases stayed pending the case, others have gone to court and the judge has ruled in their favour. So please, before you start preaching and congratulating yourself at how you knew best, get your facts right.

[kits1893]

Have you actually read around since the test case was announced?

Obviously not as you would realise that yes, whilst some people have had their cases stayed pending the case, others have gone to court and the judge has ruled in their favour. So please, before you start preaching and congratulating yourself at how you knew best, get your facts right.

 

Maybe a minority. But do you realise how many thousands of cases there are pending that are now shelved?

Before you give me a mouthful please realise that all I was saying is that it is not worth investing more money into recovering charges unless you can afford to lose it as there is no guarentee, however possible, of getting it back. Getting it back is now even more in doubt. Read around and see how many people are in really bad financial situations who have invested more much needed funds in going into litigation on the advice of the people who have suceeded. Some genuinly scared people putting their money that they probably need to buy food/rent or clothing with into court fees on the basis of someone they will never meet and are taking at their word on a web site saying that this is the "best course of action".

 

Banks are banks, fees are fees, that's life.

 

My bank wrote to me yesterday to inform me that my balance interest rate has been cut so on balances of over £2500 I now recieve the original rate and not the increased rate I get from my account. This is across the board on Lloyds TSB select accounts. Someone will always pay and it is not the banks.

 

Put "claiming bank charges" into google and look at some other sites that give the views of customers not involved in charge claims. People are now getting charged for things that they weren't before and have never gone overdrawn in their lives. General opinion from these people is "if it's not yours, don't spend it."

 

To quote myself, get in, get what you can, and get out. But don't throw good money after bad by investing in the chance of getting it back. Might as well go to the bookies, at least then you know the odds!

[BARTY]

Having read your post again - can I ask a straightforward question? Do you work for or have any connection to any UK bank or finanacial institution?

 

 

"But do you realise how many thousands of cases there are pending that are now shelved?"

I have read of one, maybe two on the Lloyds forum.

[dolly]

Maybe a minority. But do you realise how many thousands of cases there are pending that are now shelved?

Before you give me a mouthful please realise that all I was saying is that it is not worth investing more money into recovering charges unless you can afford to lose it as there is no guarentee, however possible, of getting it back. Getting it back is now even more in doubt. Read around and see how many people are in really bad financial situations who have invested more much needed funds in going into litigation on the advice of the people who have suceeded. Some genuinly scared people putting their money that they probably need to buy food/rent or clothing with into court fees on the basis of someone they will never meet and are taking at their word on a web site saying that this is the "best course of action".

 

Banks are banks, fees are fees, that's life.

 

My bank wrote to me yesterday to inform me that my balance interest rate has been cut so on balances of over £2500 I now recieve the original rate and not the increased rate I get from my account. This is across the board on Lloyds TSB select accounts. Someone will always pay and it is not the banks.

 

Put "claiming bank charges" into google and look at some other sites that give the views of customers not involved in charge claims. People are now getting charged for things that they weren't before and have never gone overdrawn in their lives. General opinion from these people is "if it's not yours, don't spend it."

 

To quote myself, get in, get what you can, and get out. But don't throw good money after bad by investing in the chance of getting it back. Might as well go to the bookies, at least then you know the odds!

 

Perhaps if you had made your original post in that tone then I wouldn't have given you a 'mouthful'.

 

You put an exclamation mark after the word, 'unlucky' - this alone indicates that you found it funny and I probably speak for all of us who are waiting for court hearings when I say that is one thing it is not.

 

Personally, I don't give a flying monkeys what other people who are not claiming charges think, let them moan and complain all they like. The banks are still making billions of pounds profit a year, profits are going up even with the paying out of charges as one bank liked to gloat last week so maybe the people who are moaning about these additional charges on accounts and interest rates dropping on accounts should be targetting the banks and their excuses for doing this.

 

If people have never received a charge in their life then good for them but fortunes can change in an instant and even the most financially stable person can end up in the mire. It happens and it happens a lot - look at all the famous, rich people that have gone bankrupt. Look at all the repossessions that there are now.

[fzrkitten]

Hi Kits,

 

I'm not one for conflict or even debates, just wanted to add that people feel this way mainly because of how they have been treated by the banks in the first place, as in my case I was literally told 'tough' when I asked for one month's refund at a time when my mother had had a stroke and lives 200 miles away, and that I 'shouldn't have incurred the charges in the first place', and 'couldn't I get a second job'.

 

I will lose my house over this if I have to. I am fighting all the way.

 

People just feel very strongly and differently I know, good luck in whatever you decide for yourself.

 

Fzrkitten.

[kits1893]

Personally, I don't give a flying monkeys what other people who are not claiming charges think,

 

I think that says a lot.

 

P.S. Have you heard on the news / radio about banks planning to charge 24p per withdrawal at all cash points as a way of regaining these charges.

 

An average £1000 claim will only take 26 years to give back to them at an average of 3 transactions per week! How many people will end up better of in the end?? The ones who's charge claims are huge. Surely then a higher likleyhood of being people who repeatedly went over and could have stopped it by being careful! (I am one of these people before you shout at me.)

[kits1893]

 

"But do you realise how many thousands of cases there are pending that are now shelved?"

I have read of one, maybe two on the Lloyds forum.

 

Perhapse should read newspapers and BBC news site rather than opinion based forums.

[kits1893]

Hi Kits,

 

I'm not one for conflict or even debates, just wanted to add that people feel this way mainly because of how they have been treated by the banks in the first place, as in my case I was literally told 'tough' when I asked for one month's refund at a time when my mother had had a stroke and lives 200 miles away, and that I 'shouldn't have incurred the charges in the first place', and 'couldn't I get a second job'.

 

I will lose my house over this if I have to. I am fighting all the way.

 

People just feel very strongly and differently I know, good luck in whatever you decide for yourself.

 

Fzrkitten.

 

Go for it. All possible best wishes.

 

Might I add that people requesting one months refund after a genuine one off or mistake are more often than not paid out straight away or the charges never taken. Any bank refusing this deserves to be taken to court. It's people with thousands and thousands worth of claim saying that it is not there fault that is causing the problem.

 

I wonder if you asked these people over a pint a couple of years ago before the charges were even questioned what their opinion was. Would probably get a wry smile and a comment like "yea that was stupid wasn't it."

 

As you say eveyone's situation is different. People who have suffered charges due to illness or disability I can understand would feel hard done by and would want to fight. But the majority who continually worked, (or chose not to) and acrued charges by spending what they didn't have are going to make the banking system inaccessable and expensive for everyone. Also the volume of cases will stop the "genuine mistake" cases from being looked at as banks have a one for all approach to their responses.

 

Fzrkitten your case was probably just in a huge pile of people with no good reason for going overdrawn or bouncing payments which all got the big NO stamp without being properly considered. Perhapse if this process was dealt with sensibly by them, then you would have no need to go through the stress and hardship that you are doing.

 

The very best of luck to you!!

[hannah8686]

'Who is paying the wages of all the people who are dealing with these court claims? Or even the FOS clerks who send letters back and forwards to banks all day?? Ultimatly the public at the end of the day. '

When it comes down to it, if the banks did not levy disproportionate penaltys in the first place then we would not have to take all them to court, The FOS bill the bank a flat fee of £250 everytime a complaint is made against them. they also pay the FSA a levy to be regulated by them etc etc so the banks are paying for the privillage of the FOS handling their complaints

 

secondly, when i took the baks to court, i paid a court fee so that is a contribution to staff wages etc etc.

 

I know you are trying to defend your actions, but i feel you have not done enough research as you cannot back up what you are saying. this website has offered me so much incouragement to claim back everything in full and get back what is rightfullymine. you imply that we all should settle for second best.

 

the point I am trying to make is that I see a much better solution to these claims between the consumer and the bank, with out involving outside parties.

 

The FOS and the court system are their for situations exactly like the banks charges, if we do not take advantage of these then people would be out of a job. Ultimatley the banks are abusing the system and have done for for too long, by letting it go on without full disclosure for as long as they have

 

The people who should go for this all the way are the innocent people who have ended up in my position due to for example, redundancy or disability etc.

I dont think you should be a certain type of person to incurr bank charges, and the fact is it doesnt matter if you have got into trouble due to the reasons you stated or because you are just rubbish with money. the fact is the bak should not be making a profit at all for how you manage an account. i for one would be happy to pay for the actual cost to bounce a chq, ddi etc etc. but paying for their christmas bonus etc etc is not fair, my bank charged me £39 the other day for a chq for £5 that bounced im not disabled been made redundant etc etc. its my fault it bounced but not fair that i pay £39, £2 would be fine which is why we take people to court

 

 

[kits1893]

look at all the famous, rich people that have gone bankrupt.quote]

 

Think most of them spend the last of what they have on rehab!

[muggyno1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolly

Personally, I don't give a flying monkeys what other people who are not claiming charges think,

 

I think that says a lot.

 

P.S. Have you heard on the news / radio about banks planning to charge 24p per withdrawal at all cash points as a way of regaining these charges.

 

An average £1000 claim will only take 26 years to give back to them at an average of 3 transactions per week! How many people will end up better of in the end?? The ones who's charge claims are huge. Surely then a higher likleyhood of being people who repeatedly went over and could have stopped it by being careful! (I am one of these people before you shout at me.)

 

My my, I had no idea that this thread was still active.

 

Thanks Kits for pointing out that the banks will fleece us in any way they can. Remember that not that long ago all banks charged for all withdrawals at cash machines at the same time as applying unlawful bank charges. It was only because of a consumer backlash that they were eventually forced to stop. Presumably you would have been against that backlash too.

 

I hope that I have misunderstood but it appears to me that you are saying that, because it may be someone's fault that they have incurred charges that the banks should be allowed to charge what they like for that, irrespective of the lawfulness or otherwise of their actions, and that this should not be challenged. Interesting.

 

By the way, there are a number of threads on this site highlighting the campaigns against the FSA waiver and how to appeal against a stay. I will track some down and put links in my next post.

 

Muggy

[hannah8686]

KITS1893

 

Just a quick question so that i can clear this up in my head.

 

Do you really believe that just because the bank charges i and similar people have incurred due to my own fault should not be reclaimed by myself as it was my own fault that i incurred them due to being bad with money 3 years ago???

 

Do you also believe that by going to the FOS etc that we are wasting people time cause this seems what you have implyed

 

do you think the banks are in the right cause you defend their actions a lot

 

the whole reason that the OFT have taken the banks to court is because they believe the charges are wrong, did you watch the whistleblower??? this also had proof that the banks make a substancial profit. it seems you are trying to justify the charges for people who are claiming them back due to incurring them because of carelessness.

[muggyno1]

A few links to useful threads:

 

 

Bank Charges Consumer Charter

 

List of all MPs written and e-mailed

 

Office of Fair Trading Test Case

 

Cheers.

 

Muggy

[kits1893]

Slightly frustrating is the fact that people who now seem to have all the knowledge about unlawful charges, this and banks can and can't do, that are the ones who mis managed their accounts to get into this mess. Perhapse arming ourselves with this level of financial acumin in the first place when opening our accounts would have stopped the problem for most of us in before it happened?!?! Lets face it, these charges were documented to us at that time. I think Dolly's quote "don't give a flying monkeys about anyone else" says a lot. People need to broaden their minds and views and stop thinking only about themselves and their individual situations.

 

As I went through the inital process of claiming I reaserched the situation and the more I did the more I felt uncomfortable about the whole idea of taking full on court action due to how it would affect the system as a whole. You are blinkered if you think that the banks are so big that it's like a flea bite to an elephant. People will suffer and it will be everyone who uses a bank without question. If they are forced to give they will simply take more. A nice little communistic system of wealth re-distribution we have going on.

 

What do you want? A free reign to spend, write cheques, process payments etc with a bank in the background paying it all for you as you require?? Does that even seem sensible to anyone?? Of course banks make money, they are businesses. They provide a service to us at a cost, that's what they do. We should be glad they are making such huge profits as they strengthen the English economy in the world market. This level of action is simply self distructive to the bigger picture.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the level of charges. Which is why I went and got my £750 back. But come on people, surely we are starting to see that it is getting ridiculous.

 

Yours,

 

Mr Controvertial.

[kits1893]

KITS1893

 

Do you really believe that just because the bank charges i and similar people have incurred due to my own fault should not be reclaimed by myself as it was my own fault that i incurred them due to being bad with money 3 years ago???

 

Do you also believe that by going to the FOS etc that we are wasting people time cause this seems what you have implyed

 

do you think the banks are in the right cause you defend their actions a lot

 

 

1 - Yes. (PS, same for me!)

 

2 - No, it is at least creating jobs so not wasting peoples time. But who is paying them??

 

3 - Partly. I think some charge for spending their money without permission is right. Bounced cheques with a large charge I don't agree with. But in my experience cheques and DDs have been paid for me then the charge added. In MY case, items were bounced when it loked pretty obviouse that I didn't and wouldn't have the money to pay back quickly.

[hannah8686]

* firstly i am not disputing we should be charged, just that the charge is unlawful as it is too high

 

* you are basically saying that because i missmanaged my account when i was younger and inexperienced i should not be allowed to claim back the charges. charges are in itself a spiral. it only takes a few mistakes.

 

 

For example

i messed up 1 month and incurred 250 of charges, because of this i could not afford the bills so the charges came out again and again mont after month. if the charge had been a fair amount in the first place i g/tee you that most people would not have had to claim back in the first place.

 

 

What do you want? A free reign to spend, write cheques, process payments etc with a bank in the background paying it all for you as you require?? Does that even seem sensible to anyone?? Of course banks make money, they are businesses.

 

As stated before, people dont mind paying for the service, just not £39 for a chq of £5 etc etc

 

banks make money in various ways, and a profit per charge is fine, if the profit is not 94% of the actual charge and the actual charge is only 6% of the charge they incurr.

 

I dont understand why you are defending them

 

your arguements are not justified, it seems like you have under researched and are now trying to back up you original statement.

 

This website is against bank charges, your statements actually are mainley for them.

 

 

 

as per your last post (wasnt their when i wrote this one)

 

the banks pay for their own complainst through the FOS, they pay £250 flat fee everytime a complaint is submitted against them, if they settled previous to this they would not have to pay so that in my opinion is their own fault

 

we pay to take them to court, firstly the fee, then the AQ fee etc etc, the banks then pay us back, the banks waste the courts and our time by not paying paying out firsts

 

It quite straight forward really, not to sure why you dont understand lol

[kits1893]

'Who is paying the wages of all the people who are dealing with these court claims? ...etc.

 

 

 

 

Appreciate that you may have only seen this thread as I posted recently, but the post you quote there is quite old and would be going over a lot to reply to it all.

 

PS. your court fees hardly even pay a Judge to get out of bed. CROWN court is paid for by, guess who?... tax payers. Same as schools and hospitals.