citi cards CCA request does not apply me too

[gill5blue]

Hi All

Well I think I've come up with something, with help of my friends:)

what do you all think?

comments are acceptable:)

I am feeling good about this:D

 

Thank you for your letter dated 10th June in response to the request of the copy of the Credit Agreement.

 

I am afraid that you still have not supplied the information requested in said act and therefore are in default.

 

The request is for post contractual information as regulated by section 180 of the act the regulation you speak of is contained within Statutory Instruments 1983/1557 which reads:

General requirements as to form and content of copy documents

3.-(1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof.

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations there under as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

As you may be aware, the Act sets out that a valid agreement must exist in the prescribed form in order for that agreement to be executed. As it appears you are unable to provide a copy of the agreement in the prescribed form then it appears to me that there is no executable agreement in force.

 

 

If you are unable to provide a true copy of the original agreement, the required fee already having been received by you, then I will have no other option to assume you do not hold a valid credit agreement

As you are now in default NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me.

Gill

[gill5blue]

posted the above letter tuesday

heres hoping i get a positive response ha ha

[gill5blue]

update

hi

still pingponging requesting cca and they say they do not have to

I might have to get to court with them to get Them to supply cca?

i have stopped paying and they are unhappy

[gill5blue]

they are very unhappy they say they are going to send a collection agency to my home to collec t some money

NAUGHTY CITI

Is now the time to go to court?

Is it a N1 form I use?

HELP PLEASE

[surprise]

Don't do anything as they cannot enforce the agreement, if they try then report them to Trading Standards, ICO and OFT

[gill5blue]

Thanks Surprise

 

UPDATE

I have had enough and sending a letter of help and complaint to OFT FSA INFORMATION COMMISSIONERS OFFICE and FOS

HELP= in obtaining a copy of my CCA (Im sure they will not get one) I am also asking them to ask citi to abide by regulations, guidelines and the LAW.

COMPLAINT= regarding the phonecalls and 'content' of letters recieved.

citi constantly lie, but thanks to this website when I recieve a letter - saying they will send people round-~(i get scared) then I read other peoples threads and realise I am not the only one.

Some of you have really gone through the mill, Im just in the middle of it now( I think)

My OH is getting worried about defaults etc

Im not scared anymore, in fact Im getting angry now, and they should watch out when I get angry, because I tend to hit double hard back.

Is there anyone else I can send the letter to? or have I covered every body?

Or any other advise from 'credit friends'?

[gill5blue]

Here is some feedback

ICO have let me know they are looking into my complaint and TRADING STANDARDS state they agree with Citi Cards in the fact that they do not have to supply a copy of the agreement?????????? Im a bit confused now with trading standards

[surprise]

Gill, it is right Citi can omit signatures and dates from copy agreements but if they come to enforce it in court then they would have to produce the orginal signed and dated agreement. So in effect they have complied with your request. However, the terms and conditions should be the ones which applicable when you opened the account. The ones they sent me where the current ones. I am having the same battle at present. However, Citi have gone very quiet on me, in fact, it's me that's doing all the writing to them.

 

Have you sent the harassment letter yet regarding phone calls,if not, I would certainly do that. Send it Recorded Delivery.

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

Pleas will you PM me with any writen or emailed advice containing this missinformation as i am into there ribs about this as we speak

 

In the meantime here is a letter that may be useful

 

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify:

 

On the 29th of December 2006 in response query Ian McCartney MP replied to a letter in his then role as minister for the department of Trade and Industry he stated this, “Mr Bardsley describes a situation in which he was sent a copy of a company’s standard Terms and Conditions when requesting a copy of a signed agreement form. Just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement”

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.”

This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instru­ment or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, what is being overlooked is the part highlighted, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Best regards

Peter

[gill5blue]

Hi Surprise

They have not sent me an agreement or even an application form, they have only sent me current terms and conditions

Gill

[gill5blue]

Hi Peter,

Thankyou, I was getting a bit concerned, it is hard not to beleive them when a)CitiCards are such a large body and b) TRADING STANDARDS hold a position where, what they say should be 100% coorect and beleiveable.

I will pm details tomorrow evening( gonna watch rugby now)

Citicards have sent a 'contact' person to my house last week.I was feeling brave and he did not scare me, but I do wobble now and again.

[gill5blue]

Hi Peter,

I have pm you the letter from trading standards

good luck

[mkandy]

Have you got any further with this?

 

They fobbed me off a long time ago with my CCA Request - My request did not apply to them either. Funny that. In that case, they are already in default of my initial request, from months and months ago!

[gill5blue]

the FOS have sent me a complaint form to fill out, but with the postal strikes things are taking a little longer

[gill5blue]

UPDATE

The FSA have stated they cannot help and suggested I contact the FOS and the ICO (I have already on both counts)

[gill5blue]

I have just spent this afternoon scanning all documents and recording all information on to PC and will back it up on to disc.

The FOS have acknowledged they have received my complaint but due to high volumes will respond to me later

[stroke a badger]

Well as Citicards have not produced a copy of the CCA, as requested by FOS It looks i'm going to have to complain - again!

[gill5blue]

ok

what did FOS actually say? because citi state 'they do not need to'

I have not heard from FOS yet

[gill5blue]

I have just found a recorder on my windows 'vista' and it works if you get a phonecall and put the phone near the pc

could be helpful-i just wished i had it a few weeks ago when the stressed man rang and SHOUTED down the phone at me

[Enron]

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=124378&command=displayContent&sourceNode=242557&contentPK=18488090&folderPk=110183&pNodeId=242556

[gill5blue]

UPDATE

I have received a letter from FOS stating they have sent details of my complaint to citicards and for them to respond properly-not just give reasons as to why they do not have supply a copy of the original agreement. The FOS have said if I have not heard or are not happy with their response to resend the complaint form in 8 weeks

I think this sounds positive (2008 is going to be a good year)

[stroke a badger]

Well, it has been 6 weeks since I resent my complaint to the FOS regarding Citicards failing to provide a copy of the CCA and I have heard nothing.

[gill5blue]

UPDATE

I have heard nothing since I wrote to CITI stating that they should not default the account, and also thay should have wrote to me by December with their final response (they stated the date) so I wrote them informing them they were 8 weeks overdue on the response, and could I presume they have now reduced the account to zero. I also said if they have defaulted the account I will look at ways to reverse this and to seek compensation.

It has now been 15 weeks with no officail communication (standard computer print outs stating pending defaults only)

oooooooooooohhhhh have I won??????

I think I would rather have a letter than no communication, maybe my last letter did the trick!!!!!!!!

Should I resend the last letter?

Gill5blue

[Enron]

Might be worth considerring taking it to court for a formal decision, and from my reading if there is no agreement or it lacks any perscribed terms you can reclaim all interest paid on the account.

 

Citi are not going to be helpful to you in anyway.

 

Think this forum could do with a sub-section to deal specificially with CCA.

[gill5blue]

Thanyou Enron

I will consider court!!!!!!! scary

I agree with your last sentence