Wednesday vs Citi Cards

[wednesday1867]

Am i right in thinking i can apply at anytime to get the stay lifted?

[Enron]

Yep though you would have to have sound reasons for doing so.

[wednesday1867]

Well the stay has been placed because of the OFT High Court case, but as we know, it doesnt apply to Credit Card claims, so thats my reason

[Enron]

That would be the best arguement.

 

Might be wise to add that "The Defendant has complied with the OFT report in lowerring its default charges to £12, the issue here is whether that figure matches the Defendants true costs.

 

There is proof to the fact that the process of billing a late payment charge is entirely automated, the Defendant also submitting conflicting cost pre-estimates to courts previously. As such I enclose draft directions for consideration which will bring all matters to the fore if adopted".

 

Then enclose the draft order.

[wednesday1867]

Thanks Enron, i am filling the form in today, i just want to go over it, mainly cos i'm terrible with legal stuff

 

So here goes,

 

What Order are you asking the court to make and why?

 

I am asking the court to lift the stay that was applied to my case. The defendants Solicitors (Eversheds) applied to have the stay granted on the oucome of the High Court case between the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) and certain banks ( the defedant not being one of the banks involved). The case mentioned is in relation to Bank accounts and not Credit Card claims. The OFT have already made a judgement regarding Credit Card charges, reducing them to £12 which the defendant has complied with. The issue of my claim is if the figure charged has matched the defendants true costs. There is proof to the fact that the process of billing a late payment charge is entirely automated, the Defendant also submitting conflicting cost pre-estimates to courts previously.As such I enclose draft directions for consideration which will bring all matters to the fore if adopted".

 

I believe Eversheds are aware of the OFt ruling regarding Credit Card charges, but yet pursued the stay as a delaying tactic.

 

How do you want to have this application dealt with?

 

Without a hearing?

 

How long do you think the hearing will last?

 

Left it all blank.

Give Details of any fixed trial date or period.

 

Left Blank

 

What level of Judge does your hearing need?

 

District Judge?????

 

Who should be served with this application?

 

Eversheds???????

 

What information will you be relying on, in support of your application?

 

Statement of the case or evidence i set out in another box?

 

Is that ok, or should i be adding more or less, i don't want to bodge it up again

[wednesday1867]

This is what the original stay said:

 

 

The Court is aware that a test case had been issued in the High Court between the OFt and certain banks. This is with a view to determining issues of legal principle in relation to the recovery of charges made on bank current accounts and the applicability of the UFTCCR and other legislation to such charges.

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks Enron, i am filling the form in today, i just want to go over it, mainly cos i'm terrible with legal stuff

 

So here goes,

 

What Order are you asking the court to make and why?

 

I am asking the court to lift the stay that was applied to my case. The defendants Solicitors (Eversheds) applied to have the stay granted on the oucome of the High Court case between the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) and certain banks ( the defedant not being one of the banks involved). The case mentioned is in relation to Bank accounts and not Credit Card claims. The OFT have already made a judgement regarding Credit Card charges, reducing them to £12 which the defendant has complied with. The issue of my claim is if the figure charged has matched the defendants true costs. There is proof to the fact that the process of billing a late payment charge is entirely automated, the Defendant also submitting conflicting cost pre-estimates to courts previously.As such I enclose draft directions for consideration which will bring all matters to the fore if adopted".

 

I believe Eversheds are aware of the OFt ruling regarding Credit Card charges, but yet pursued the stay as a delaying tactic.

 

How do you want to have this application dealt with?

 

Without a hearing?With a hearing

 

How long do you think the hearing will last?30 minutes

 

Left it all blank.

Give Details of any fixed trial date or period.

 

Left Blank

 

What level of Judge does your hearing need?

 

District Judge?????District Judge or Deputy district Judge

 

Who should be served with this application?

 

Eversheds???????Defendants

What information will you be relying on, in support of your application?

 

Statement of the case or evidence i set out in another box?

 

Is that ok, or should i be adding more or less, i don't want to bodge it up again

other evidence as attatched

 

In my application to lift the stay I attatched the statements issued by the OFT (on their website on conclusion of the 2006 investigation into CC charges.

 

And yes you should be able to claim the charges back for applications on notice as settlement.

Edited September 1, 2008 by MARTIN3030

[wednesday1867]

Thanks for that, unfortunately somethings popped up, so will sort it payday

[wednesday1867]

Is what i have put in the first paragraph ok? even the bit about it being a delaying tactic?

 

Also does it have to be an hearing?

[Enron]

The benefit of having a hearing in person to request a stay is that you can go more into detail over the reasons for requesting it lifted.

 

These being that the OFT already has a report in place dealing with the issue of penalty charges for credit cards.

 

The current OFT test case relates purely to overdraft penalty charges, the court in this instance has ruled that they are unfair under contract law.

 

It may also help familiarise yourself with the court - the stay will be relatively an informal process. There will also be the inconveinence that Citi will have to attend as well.

 

Think Martins advice is good on this issue.

[wednesday1867]

There will also be the inconveinence that Citi will have to attend as well.

 

 

I like the sound of that

 

Im just filling out my N244, so its ready to post in a week or two.

 

Should i leave the bit in the first paragraph about it being a delaying tactic, or should i take it out?

[tinkerbell20]

The benefit of having a hearing in person to request a stay is that you can go more into detail over the reasons for requesting it lifted.

 

These being that the OFT already has a report in place dealing with the issue of penalty charges for credit cards.

 

The current OFT test case relates purely to overdraft penalty charges, the court in this instance has ruled that they are unfair under contract law.

 

It may also help familiarise yourself with the court - the stay will be relatively an informal process. There will also be the inconveinence that Citi will have to attend as well.

 

Think Martins advice is good on this issue.

 

 

subscribing

[Enron]

Upto you, but certainly when Citi have requested stays in the past they have not been for the benefit of negotiating a settlement - normally in these instances no contact has been made with the Claimant until the stay comes for review.

 

Think the thing is to concentrate on the OFT Credit Card report, and take a copy into court with your for the hearing to lift the stay.

 

Citi have complied in lowerring its default charges to the maximum amount of £12, the issue here is whether the level of £12 which it charges customers represents a reasonable relation to its costs.

 

As we have evidence in hand that indicates the addition of late payment charges as being fully automated, the costs to the defendant would be negligible as part of an overall IT billing system. Thus Citi's statements that there costs are in excess of £12 are dubious.

[MARTIN3030]

The delaying tactic bit should be replaced yes.....

 

The defendants have consistently sought to slow down the progress of litigants by use of a variety of questionable actions.I have no doubt that they are aware of the OFT conclusion into the unfairness of credit card charges,and that many Courts are allowing claims for credit card charges to proceed.

 

 

There are 2 benefits to asking for a hearing.

 

Firstly as has been suggested,you get the opportunity to put over your case.

But more importantly-If City dont turn up then it highlights even more what you say in your App.You can ask for a strike out on the basis that Citi are abusing the Court process and showing disrespect for the Court.

 

 

It may help to take a list of cases thats been settled since September 2007 (Citi claims ) to illustrate that Citi are still settling despite the OFT test case.

[wednesday1867]

Thanks for your input fellas, i cant post it for a fortnight, but will keep this thread updated

[wednesday1867]

Right them, just one final check beforei like the envelope

 

Enclosed

 

N244 Form

 

Draft Directions

 

And a print out of this http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/financial_products/oft842a.pdf

 

So are we good to go?

 

Edit

 

All in triplicate

[wednesday1867]

Dropped the stay removal application in at the Court yesterday morning

[wednesday1867]

Received notice of hearing this morning, its all set for end of November.

 

Should i expect to hear from either the court or Eversheds before this date?

[Enron]

What hearing is it does it define.

 

If its the full one you should have court papers through saying about exchange of documents (bundles) etc.

[wednesday1867]

The paperwork just says "Take notice that the hearing will take place"

 

I think its just the hearing that i requested to have the stay removed.

 

It came back with all the bumph that i sent off for the stay removal and they have allowed 30 mins as requested.

[MARTIN3030]

Will just be a directions hearing to decide if the Court agreed.Basically Judge will read everything.Eversheds are not required to acknowledge to you and the Court has already done so.The merits will be decided on the info in your N244-stress to the Judge that Citicards are not party to the OFT case-many Judges are unaware of it.

Citi prob wont turn up which will grant you the stay-Judge will advise to be prepared for their app to have stay re-imposed-in which case that means another hearing at which you can argue that they are abusing process and wasting time and money by failing to attend first hearing.

After that you will get date for full hearing-if Citi dont file.

 

At the stay hearing you should be prepared just in case they DO show up.

It took me 3 apps to get mine lifted after the Judge was taken in with their waffle on the first 2.

Edited October 15, 2008 by MARTIN3030

[wednesday1867]

Im in Court in a few weeks, should i take anything with me? Or are just a few notes ok, so i know what im doing and saying?

[MARTIN3030]

The emphasis will be to convince the Judge that your case should be allowed to continue outside the OFT case.

I took announcements from the OFT website,and also the OFT report into credit cards-which shows conclusively that it was addressed in 2006.

So play on this one its legitimate.

[wednesday1867]

Just an update, im in court this week filled with a little intrepidation, but i suppose thats to be expected.

 

I take it i refer to the Judge as "Your honour" or " Sir"?

 

Im getting all the Oft stuff together, so should be set

 

Enron is helping in the background which i really appreciate. Thanks

[MARTIN3030]

No - your honour is only for Crown Courts.

Sir,is best bet (But you can use by title ie-Judge Davies)

 

Best of luck.On the day its down to 2 things-Citi not turning up,and You getting your points over if they DO

Dont let them blind the Judge with waffle.