N244 allocation hearing tomorrow - HELP!!!! :o

[dan.b]

bump

[dan.b]

You requested a copy of the default notice we issued on your account. Under section 78 we are not required to provide a copy of the default notice and statement of default. However, we can confirm that a default notice was issued on 27 December 2002 and a statement of default was issued on 16 January 2003 in the sum of £514

 

For your records I have included templates of the default notice and a statement of default. These are identical to the letters that you were sent, without the specific details of your default, which is stated above. I also enclose a screen print of your account records confirming the dates the default notice and statement of default were issued.

 

You also requested a copy of the deed of assignment. Under the terms of the credit card agreement, whilst we are entitled to transfer our rights and benefits under the agreement, we are not required to provide you with a copy of the document between Capital One and the purchaser. However, in order to assist you, I've arranged for a copy of the notice of assignment which you should already have received a copy informing you that your debt has been sold to Lowell which you should be receiving in 14 days (still not received)

 

 

so the question is... do they have to provide the exact default notices or can they just provide templates?

[dan.b]

I received a copy of my credit file and discovered a CCJ, since I never received any notification of a CCJ I filed an N244 form for application to put aside. I had previously found a debt on my file from lowell portfolio and paid it off (this turned out to be the CCJ registered by CapOne).

 

I turned up at the court and was met by whom I thought was the judge but it turned out to be the claimants solicitor / agent who had shuffled me into a room and started asking me questions without identifying herself (no doubt trying to get as much information out of me as possible before the hearing about what my defense would be)

 

I was told by the judge when we went in that although I was attempting to get the CCJ removed due to not receiving any paperwork, the fact that the letters were not returned to sender indicates that they were received(!!??) and that because the amount has been paid it is deemed that I agree with the CCJ so she threw out the case. Is this acceptable? it seems rather unfair to me... especially considering I didn't receive anything through the post in the first place about a CCJ as I had moved away from my parents home and we didn't keep in contact all those years ago.

 

Is it possible to re-file for a different judge or in a different court. Or even to use another reason as to why it should be set aside (now do not agree with the amount etc.) or is this a lost cause?

 

Thanks very much for any help in advance!

Dan.B!

[tiglet]

In order to get a set aside, you need to be able to show the judge that if you had been aware, you would have been able to defend the action - it's not enough to just not have received the paperwork, I'm afraid.

[dan.b]

In order to get a set aside, you need to be able to show the judge that if you had been aware, you would have been able to defend the action - it's not enough to just not have received the paperwork, I'm afraid.

 

It's not just about the paperwork, it's more to do with the lack of ability to defend like you stated. The majority of it was made up of charges which I would have contested as-well as being given the opportunity to pay within 30 days and not have a CCJ, I would have loved that opportunity! but now because I was unaware of it I have a permanent black mark.

[tiglet]

Have you SAR'd te company and got the list of charges?

 

if so, this should form part of your grounds for the set-aside - you were unaware that these charges were unlawful AND you were unaware of the court papers. had you been aware, you would have defended on those grounds.

 

Did you put this in your grounds for set-aside?

[powelll]

As far as I am aware, if the CCJ has been paid off there is no way you can get a set aside unless exceptional circs...

[dan.b]

As far as I am aware, if the CCJ has been paid off there is no way you can get a set aside unless exceptional circs...

 

Thats the thing.. even though i've paid these clowns (Lowell) CapOne were the ones to have issued the CCJ and no-one has marked the CCJ as paid off and each says its the responsibility of the other (i.e. its still on my file as oweing) so for all intents and purposes, the amount I paid lowell might aswell have been for something else..!

 

I would demand a certificate of satisfaction if not for the fact that if its still marked as oweing I can perhaps still contest it..?

[dan.b]

bump!

going to stick a replacement form in today any advice would be appreciated

Thx!

[skbuncks]

....even though i've paid these clowns (Lowell) CapOne were the ones to have issued the CCJ and no-one has marked the CCJ as paid off and each says its the responsibility of the other (i.e. its still on my file as oweing) so for all intents and purposes, the amount I paid lowell might aswell have been for something else..!

 

I would demand a certificate of satisfaction if not for the fact that if its still marked as oweing I can perhaps still contest it..?

 

Hi

Only a court can mark a CCJ as satisfied (not that it will make any difference as far as obtaining credit goes) so you need to send proof of settlement of the debt to the court that issued the CCJ together with a fee (£10 i think) and they will inform the CRAs.

 

skb

[dan.b]

What i'm trying to do is put in an N244 to dispute the CCJ in the first place so rather than it being marked satisfied it will be removed (and possibly re-issued but then at least i'd have 30 days to "pay" it before it went on record again - and it would already be paid)

[gizmo111]

You have no hope of getting this set aside - the time to contest it would have been before you paid. You need to get proof that it is paid and get it marked as satisfied.

They obviously cannot re issue a claim if it has been paid, so the scenario you outline above will not happen.

[dan.b]

You have no hope of getting this set aside - the time to contest it would have been before you paid. You need to get proof that it is paid and get it marked as satisfied.

They obviously cannot re issue a claim if it has been paid, so the scenario you outline above will not happen.

 

that's true.. apart from the fact that CapitalOne don't know it's been paid (monies paid to Lowell) and the judge wont know meaning I may as-well not have paid it. Is it not worth going down the route of trying to get it removed entirely under the premise that it hasn't yet been paid.. and I dont agree with X Y and Z of the origonal judgement..

[tiglet]

Yes, but what happens when Capital One or Lowells "find" the payment and show the judge taht it's satisfied? (S)he's hardly going to be inmpressed, is (s)he?

[gizmo111]

Yes, but what happens when Capital One or Lowells "find" the payment and show the judge taht it's satisfied? (S)he's hardly going to be inmpressed, is (s)he?

 

Absolutely - the Op is likely to end up with costs as well.

I don't seee anywhere that it says they don't know it's been paid, just neither of them taking responsibility, or updating the CRA.

[tiglet]

I think, dan.b you should concentrate on the issue of having the judgement showing as settled on the correct date.

[dan.b]

In my youth I got a crap-one credit card, unfortunatly I couldn't make payments because of all of the 'over the limit' charges that eventually spiralled out of control (one charge that caused a slew of other charges that eventually was unpayable).

 

I moved out of my parents address and got a CCJ (the idiocy of youth..!) and was not informed of the hearing because I was not in contact with my parents.

 

I tried to get the judgement set aside in a local county court but their representative said that they had a transcript of a call whereby I was aware of the CCJ and would only pay if they removed the CCJ (which is untrue). The judge said that as the letter was not sent back to the court as undeliverable or no longer at the address, it was deemed served, and as I paid the judgement recently (when I first learned of it on my credit report) it could not be set aside.

 

I think this is slightly unfair - as I was not speaking with my parents at the time and the letter was not given to me how could I be expected to defend it.

 

What I want to know is this - the judgement will be on my file for another year and a half but I want to apply for credit now as aside from this I have a good history of payments. It is not even marked as paid because the buggers that lowell are haven't even sent me a letter proving I paid them after repeated requests and threats of further action.

 

I really want this set aside as the preferred option - is it possible to dispute it on the amount of the judgement (substantially higher than the debt) after I've already tried to dispute it on grounds of not receiving the summons?

 

If not - is there any way to force Lowell to send me the proof I need to mark it as satisfied. They are saying that as capital one filed the CCJ it is up to them, however, capone are saying it is Lowells problem. argh!

[dan.b]

Hi,

 

I had a CCJ registered against me years ago without my knowlege because I had moved out of the address in question and no mail was ever returned to the court to say so.

 

I only found out about this about 8-9 months ago because of a default entry on my credit file from Lowell who had purchased this debt from capital one and a CCJ from cap-one at that old address.

 

It was naive to move away and forgetting to deal with the issue but I filed for the court to strike off the CCJ because the papers were not served and I was not given an opportunity to defend myself (I would have done - all of the money owed was due to ridiculous charges and capital one were less than helpfull in helping me deal with it)

 

Upon turning up at the court, I met someone who was representing Geoffrey Parker Bourne (a company I origonally thought was a solicitors office, turns out to be a debt collection agency?) although they did not state that, I honestly thought this was someone from the court, who asked me a lot of questions and made notes, and then told me she represented Geoffrey Parker Bourne and the case was called infront of the county court judge.

 

I was then told that because the papers were not returned as undelivered it was deemed that the notice was served. It was also put accross to the judge from this 'agent' of JPB that at the time they had called me asking me about this debt and I had told them that 'unless they removed the CCJ I would not be paying the debt' which is utter twaddle.

I also informed the judge that I had been making payments to Lowell as a gesture of good faith now I knew about the debt but was in negotiation about the amount as I did not believe it to be accurate.

 

The judge then said that because of this I had 'accepted the debt'?!? not exactly...! Surely I should have had the chance to put it to the court that the amount was incorrect in the first place and to work out a fair payment rather than having to do it with Lowell.

 

I feel that by 'doing the right thing' and making a payment to Lowell that has somehow invalidated my chances of removing the marker which I believe to be unfair as I was never presented with notification or warning, if I was I would have been able to raise the funds to avoid it in the first place.

 

Is there ANY way now of appealing this decision or doing anything to repair my file? I feel completely victimised with the way this has been handled especially with the unscrupulous 'agent' of JPB cornering me and taking notes before the hearing which seems very unprofessional.

 

If there is absolutely no chance - if I make the final payment and get a letter of satisfaction, will this reset the 6 year period for it to fall off my file or does the 6 years go from the origonal judgement (and the same question for defaults)

 

Thankyou in advance for any help!

 

DanB

[Movingon]

The six year Limitation Period extends from the moment that "the Cause of Action Accrued". This would be seven days after you failed to respond to a Default Notice.

 

Once a Judge has ruled not to set aside a Judgement, I don't believe that there is any way to appeal that decision - although I may be mistaken and I await to be corrected with bated breath. The default stays on your record for six years after it's satisfied as far as I know.

[dan.b]

is it worth once I get the letter of satisfaction sending it to get it marked as satisfied or would this hurt any potential appeal I might be able to make?

 

Plus I'm thinking that even a satisfied marker might not mean much when it comes to increasing my credit score - probably best to get it removed completely if at all possible.

[mcjohnson]

1 - The reason that the papers are considered served is because they would have been sent to the last address which Cap one held for you. It is your responsibility to inform them of any change of address thus, at the time of their application, the address details they supplied they believed to be correct. Unless you can prove you notifed Cap One of a change of address, and Cap One ackowledged this, you will have great difficulty in demonstrating the papers were not served correctly.

 

2 - The CCJ will remain on your file for a period of 6 years from the date of the judgement.

 

3 - If you pay the judgement you can have the judgement marked as satisfied with the CRAs. You will need to obtain a certificate of satisfaction from the court (you may have to pay for this), and send this to the CRA's. Regardless of when you satisfy the judgement, the six years expires from the date of the judgement.

 

4 - You can apply to have a judgement set-aside as many times as you like, however your case for a second or third application needs to be fundamentally different from the first. You can't simply re-apply because you didn't like the previous judgement.

 

I hope this helps.

 

MJ