CASE LOST - Lloyds Tsb

[Champnos]

Did you lose that case? Of the cases i have read up on the Judge found that because the claimants either a. didnt show a T&C or b. Agreed they were not in breach of contract are the only ones that seem to be losing?

 

It would be nice to have some T&C's that specifically imply the charge is for breach of contract, is there one for Lloyds? I cant access the Wayback Machien through work and i have a case being transferred locally.

[notlam]

The bank paid back the charges taken (without any admission of guilt) the day before the hearing and sent a Barrister to the court to only challenge part of the claim (the contractual interest part).

 

Clearly, in hindsight, I should have worded the claim differently; to reclaim back the interest charged rather than claim CI.

 

But that's not my point here. The point I am trying to make is, that even with the T's & C's in my hand and claiming breach, the judge still discounted that argument; making those telling remarks about the breach (or not, in his opinion) and the penalty charges (again not, in his opinion).

 

The thread is located at:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/96898-helping-friend-against-ltsb-new-post.html

[Josie8]

"The claimant himself does not claim that he was in breach of his contract with the defendant. Indeed, it was the evidence of the claimant that from time to time he had exceeded the agreed limitof his overdraft without complaint fromn the bank save for the imposition of the charges."

 

I think this is the root of the problem.................the claimant MUST at all times state that he was in breach of contract. It has given the judge wriggle room on the banks behalf.................

 

 

Plus he hadn't submitted a statement of evidence which enabled the judge to conduct a Q&A session with him

[McIavelli]

Hmmm I suspect all this will serve to discourage the banks from settling early & IMHO I suspect the resultant build up of cases will mean that something will give, & soon .

 

It seems the views of judges are becoming very polarised too. Is there a magazine (probably called "The ivory tower" ) or online discussion forum for the legal profession where judges exchange their views?

 

I sent my LBA a week ago, I hope things are a little clearer by the time my case is up before the judge.

[fortyniner]

 

9. Although the claimant filed prior to the hearing the bundle of the documents already referred to neither he nor the defendant (who filed no documents other than the defence) filed a statement of their evidence to the court. I therefore took oralevidence from the claimant and invited him to tell me of those matters which he considered important to the case.

(my emphasis)

 

There is a clear warning here - make sure you have a 'witness statement' or 'response to the defence' (these and several other terms seem to crop up) in your bundle, together with all the referred documents. This way the arguments are clearly laid out and you just read through it in court, handing over the documents as you go (so I've heard - my case is yet to get a date). This will hopefully minimise the chances of being cornered into making statements that burn the case. It will also ensure that a judge has to respond to each WRITTEN argument, rather than just setting traps.

 

Of course, none of this applies to Notlam (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/96898-helping-friend-against-ltsb-4.html), who did all the right things but still got steamrollered by the judge (PLEASE will someone with legal knowledge respond to these 'lost case' threads).

[nbizzle]

not looking good for me! Im at AQ stage need a little help. Im hearing about this draft order for directions and have the template but need to clarify a few things

 

1. i attach the draft order for directions to AQ and it says on it the claimant ( me) will provide the bank and court with details. What do i provide them with? and when do i provide them with it?

 

Do i Hand it AQ then wait for a request from the court?

[notlam]

Is there a magazine (probably called "The ivory tower" ) or online discussion forum for the legal profession where judges exchange their views?

 

Yes there is. Don't know what form exactly but I got the impression it was some sort of online forum when the judge referred to it during our hearing ; he referred to the Birmingham case and said, " we do talk to each other you know".

[nbizzle]

Not meaning to cause offence to people that are helpful but ive noticed just lately that no1 replies to peoples quries anymore on this site - now the going getting tough every1 that has alreday won are taking there money and running!! a few months ago u could ask any question on here and get a response now you get none. All i need is a quick run through of the draft order process on the AQ. Feel for you gillin if i cant get help for a simple process you have no chance!

[notlam]

PLEASE will someone with legal knowledge respond to these 'lost case' threads

I imagine there's some serious thinking (and private help) going on behind the scenes here but the apparent absence of any comment or response to these "case lost" threads from a legal here must be very disturbing and worrying for those with hearings coming up soon.

 

[Kevboy_telford]

Just to put peoples minds at rest

it was the same with mine - there will be a lot of help behind the scenes Gillin5002 will post when he has enough to go on.

Yes it is a worrying trend, but with enough help and support from each other we will get through this

Nbizzle - have posted on your thread otherwise this one will go haywire like mine did

[nbizzle]

exactly - i cant even get help with AQ Which im sure is pretty simple for a mod or even previous winners on here to help with, No wonder the successes thread is lookin painfully thin of late

[McIavelli]

Yes there is. Don't know what form exactly but I got the impression it was some sort of online forum when the judge referred to it during our hearing ; he referred to the Birmingham case and said, " we do talk to each other you know".

 

Well I've had a quick browse through here: Law Gazette - Home

 

& here:

The Law Society - Home

 

But found nothing at all. I have to get some work done now :o , so I'll leave it with you guys & see if you have any luck.

 

Cheers & keep your collective chins up!

[fortyniner]

I imagine there's some serious thinking (and private help) going on behind the scenes here but the apparent absence of any comment or response to these "case lost" threads from a legal here must be very worrying though for those with hearings coming up soon.

 

 

I hope you're right Notlam - although it could be that the mods are as much in the dark as the rest of us regarding how to react to these 'rogue' judgements. Unless of course you are receiving some of the private assistance you mention, but may not be at liberty to confirm as such.

 

People are beginning to flap (myself included) and any suggestions re. their significance in terms of 'precedent', whether appeals are possible (or worth doing), and whether those of us who have not yet been up before the beak need to alter the basis of our cases before submitting a bundle, would be MOST welcome.

[notlam]

Unless of course you are receiving some of the private assistance you mention, but may not be at liberty to confirm as such.

Nope - not a word.

 

I did try to contact the mods immediately after the hearing, because I thought what went on needed to be analysed so that it could be relayed to others, but sadly nobody has yet responded.

 

Bit surprised at that - perhaps there's a lot of head-scratching and brain-storming going on. Just don't know, do we?

[AngryAl]

[

QUOTE]

This is the crux, now IMHO.

 

 

 

To this the judge said, something like "when this event occurred, and if the bank then subsequently paid the cheque or DD, a new implied contract then existed, which then entitled the bank to charge a service fee in accordance with those stated (in it's T's & C's) and there was no penalty."

 

The bank does not always pay the cheque or DD. If they do not pay it they still charge you £30, presumably a new implied contract would not exist in this case & I think it would even stretch a judges logic to beleive that not paying something is a sevice!

[BARTY]

Not meaning to cause offence to people that are helpful but ive noticed just lately that no1 replies to peoples quries anymore on this site - now the going getting tough every1 that has alreday won are taking there money and running!! a few months ago u could ask any question on here and get a response now you get none. All i need is a quick run through of the draft order process on the AQ. Feel for you gillin if i cant get help for a simple process you have no chance!

 

Hi

The thing is all the information is available on this site, most questions that I reply to can be answered by having a quick search on here, it is a "self-help" website after all.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the time I spend on here (which is way too much time! ) and I love to help people and it's the best feeling when they get their money back, but there are an awful lot of people on here with questions, and I find myself posting the same replies several times a day.

If you are not getting an answer, just keep "bumping" your thread until you do.

Any that's my moan over for today:)

Barty:)

[nbizzle]

Thanks helen u have answered a few of my questions previous and i have looked around i jus want to know what i do after i have handed in draft order for directions with my AQ most threads say it makes sense to but dont really explain what it is! From what i have gathered you hand it in with AQ But on the form it says in 14days the claimant will supply information to bank and court 2 quick questions

 

1. what information do i supply in the 14 days

2 do i send it at any point after i have handed in my aq or await a response from the bank.

 

Thanks again and why isnt ure name in green??!! it should be!!

[Champnos]

People are beginning to flap (myself included) and any suggestions re. their significance in terms of 'precedent', whether appeals are possible (or worth doing), and whether those of us who have not yet been up before the beak need to alter the basis of our cases before submitting a bundle, would be MOST welcome.

 

No need to flap, at the end of the day i think theres been no more than 5 losses in court in thousands and thousands of cases, these are probably losses as the bank overlooked sending them payment in time. There has been no precedent set but judges are allowed to use their own judgement and look at other cases. There seems to be reasons for most losses. Only one or two that i seen cannot be explained, possibly rogue judge.

My case is on its way to court and im not worrying much, in fact i beleive most judges no exactly what the banks are trying to do

[broke dave]

nbizzle,

There is still help out there. People are not taking the money and running - if they are others will step in. I managed a couple of hundred posts in my first month but only 100 this month - and I'm on my way to court .

Sometimes other events overtake us and they take our priority.

There are people on this site with thousands of posts to their name; they have won and still stay here.

You can understand people taking a break when they win - the process is exhausting without answering everyone elses question.

On you particular point I'm sorry but I can't help as I didn't bother with the Draft Order.

Stick in there.

[broke dave]

I notice that Barty posted earlier. She is one who I was thinking of - over 3000 posts. She won and hasn't walked away (and better not just yet as my case is early July )

[christinajanep]

these cases that lloyds win really knocks your confidence if u still have claims going through, i know there are alot of successes still but the courts are starting to follow what happened in birmingam,

[christinajanep]

i say it because i am slightly stressing and this is worst than my first one

[Kevboy_telford]

but if people read what I did wrong and learn from my mistakes then it should make life A LOT easier.

Have a set script of if they say did you break your T&Cs then the answer is YES

[quincy]

I too had little (well no useful) help at the end - I did get one offer albeit too late to change things.

[broke dave]

quincy,

 

Sorry, but you have been a member since 2006 and made 64 posts. Did you try and get involved or just sit back and wait for help. I personally have had no experience of this until I joined a month ago. The lessons I have learnt I have passed on to others.

As has been said before this is a self help site.