Sev v MBNA

[Sev]

Firstly hello all, and congratulations to Whizzkid vs. Abbey...

 

I have an Abbey Account in much the same state, full of charges and ironically would have been in good order if those charges had not been levied.

 

MBNA... well, where do you start with these cherubs...

 

The other week, I had a phone call at work from my parents - 78, who were distressed to say the least.

 

They had had a call from MBNA and it went like this...

 

MBNA: Hello is that MR 'Sev' (MBNA knew that my parents shared the house with me, and asked for no further security or verification)

 

Dad : Yes it is

 

MBNA: I'm ringing about your credit card balance, (talked about missed payment for one month, and token payment for another) you owe £4,000, and would like to inform you that if you do not pay, we intend legal action / bailifs

 

... can you pay now.

 

Dad : But I don't have a credit card with you.

 

MBNA : Oh.... could you confirm your name and initials...

 

 

They knew damn well that it wasn't him. I don't know what else to do.

 

I rung their operations department, with whom i'd been liasing and they said that it must have been an error and were very sorry.

 

Then their pet debt collectors in new delhi - a company called Global Vantedge started ringing... at 8am, 12pm, 3pm and 8.40pm every day, monday through sunday... and christmas eve.

 

I can take care of myself, but the preying on vulnerable pensioners is detestable, and would love to find a way of making them pay.

 

Also, if you get any calls, or make a call, you can ask for a 'login ID' rather than a name - this is the individuals' terminal code.

 

if anyone has any ideas... i'd love to hear them.

 

I read that the ombudsman can fine then up to 5k for harassement, this would clear my card. (it was 3k, but has had over 1k in charges thrust upon it) Can they be sued for the whole amount for what they did to my parents?

 

thanks

[gordonhall]

I may be wrong, but I don't think the money of the fine would actually go to you...

[Sev]

I know, but I just wanted them to feel the pain.

 

It's more the hurt, I was thinking of writing to the papers... wouldn't that look good, for such a fine upstanding pillar of the finacial community

[alanfromderby]

You would have a case under the Data Protection Act, and also you should do a forum search under "harassment"

[angry cat]

Hi Sev-

 

You are so Right in your description 'Devious ****'

 

Firstly, I think that you should contact your local 'Trading Standards' who are part of the Office of Fair Trading and make a "COMPLAINT" (the number will be in your local phone book) against MBNA, because their actions would be considered as Harassment of a debtor.

The OFT have a Code of Guidance about how financial institutions should deal with debtors. It would appear from your post that MBNA have breached this Code.

 

I personally find MBNA's collection methods ' A Disgrace ' and they definately use extemely bad methods!

 

Last week when I was visiting my youngest daughter a university graduate, she related an incident about MBNA. Apparently MBNA telephoned her apartment enquiring about a neighbour, MBNA asked my daughter to put a note through her neighbours door to inform them that MBNA needed to speak to them.

Basically my daughter told MBNA to 'Take a Walk' and that their call to my daughter's apartment/home was an intrusion upon her privacy. She thankfully is not an MBNA customer!!!

 

MBNA are probably the most non consumer friendly credit card provider.

 

Make your complaint and try to back it up with the facts.

 

Kind regards

 

angry cat

[Sev]

I think i'll do that,

 

I and my partner decided to see about an IVA, unfortunately it requires 75% of our creditors (by volume of debt owing) to agree, unfortunately 25% of our combined debt is with them.

 

I never really thought redundency would be so hard to recover from, and this is six years on.

 

I would love to wake up one morning and find that the whole country knew the true colours of this organisation... Financial crack dealers outside the schoolyard of respectibility - nothing more.

 

I gree that their collection methods are amongst some of the most aggressive and brutal I've ever come across - I bet hitler really regrets that this lot wern't around to run the concentration camps - if they did there wouldn't be a jew or gypsy left on the planet.

 

I feel so much for those that apporached them in good faith and have to endure their condescending judgmental manner.

 

Thank goodness slavery has been abolished or i'd have some MBNA goon probably checking my teeth and gums by now!

[gordonhall]

I agree with many in that MBNA are the worst of the credit card companies in their practices. Whilst they probably owe me the least amount of money, its only bacause I know how much they will screw people if they get the chance.

 

There is no let up with this group.

 

Do all you can to hurt them - just don't hurt yourself in the process.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Have a look at the thread on 'Capital One Harassment'; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3656 . They gave me hell with constant phone calls after I told them that my problems with my payments were down to their unlawful charges. It stopped after I wrote a threatening letter and reinforced it over the phone when they called the following morning. They haven't been back since.

[Sev]

Hi all,

 

I have drafted an email letter to Stuart Johnson of MBNA, I've decided to take the gentle route first, so that when he tells me to bog off I won't feel any angst!

 

I'm going to send it tommorrow (I feel more comfortable about doing things on a thursday for some reason!?)

 

Here's the draft, feel free to critique:

 

 

Dear Mr Johnson,

 

I was given your email address and telephone number care of a contact upon a debt discussion website. I have been informed that you are a reasonable man, and hence this initial email.

 

Please would you be kind enough to supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my bank account since the account was opened or the last six years, whichever is sooner. Alternatively, a complete set of Credit Card statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

As you will see from my account, I have agreed to a fixed sum in order to reduce my debt with you. I feel that it would be of benefit to both your organisation and myself if these charges could be returned in a bid to further reduce our debt and pay off monies owing sooner.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Sev.

 

MODERATED threads merged : please keep to the original thread when updating

[surreyscouse]

Seems ok mate, see no harm in the email.

[Sev]

Right, got home just now, and there is a reply straight from Stuart Johnson, and it reads as follows:

 

Dear Mr Sev

 

I'm afraid that you have been mis-informed. If you wish to make your request under the Data Protection Act, you need to do so in writing, enclosing your payment and some identification. However, if you wish to make an informal request for information then I will be happy to help.

 

Please let me know which way you would prefer your request to be handled.

 

Kind regards,

 

Stuart.

 

Stuart Johnson

Customer Advocate Manager

MBNA Europe Bank

Tel: 01244 576317

Mailstop 474-089-01-02

Email:

 

I have written back saying that if he wants to release them on an informal basis then that's fine with me...

 

lets see what happens!

[Sev]

What i'd like to do is collect a hard evidence dossier of letters and telephone conversations had with these bum wipes, and the debt collection cockroaches they employ in order to take it to a national paper.

 

I feel that the people of this country need to know the true colour of the puss that lies in the abcess that is MBNA business practice.

 

These forums all say the same thing, everyone is trying to repay their debt, they're not running away from it, but MBNA have made their lives intolerable. near suicidal infact.

 

How many people have suffered at work and in their personal life, too scared to pick up a phone, or recieving phone calls with the frequency that puts their jobs in jeapordy?

 

These used puss filled sanitary wastes need to be help up to the sunlight.

 

We may not get our slates wiped clean, but it'll stop the next poor sap from doing the same thing.

 

I can throw the website together - a petition showing real letters and recordings (names ommited of course) - people can add to it, and tell their story... then all we need is a good barrister.

 

... does anybody know a good reporter?

[fivelaws]

... does anybody know a good reporter?

 

That's an oxymoron. Like "police intelligence" or "fair & reasonable charges" *

 

I understand the sentiment, but it's not going to fly. Reserve your energy for making these scumbuckets pay people back!

 

 

 

 

 

* © Bankfodder, 2006

[Sev]

fair cop guv.

[Sev]

I've just had a jewel today from these [edit] and it goes like this:

 

telephone call to mobile: Unknown caller.

 

Message left :

rather vague sounding woman "oh hi, just calling to follow up our conversation the other morning, can you give me a call back on... (number not an 0845 but a regular number - if it happens again i'll post it on here)... anyway, thanks."

 

Call number back in the late evening thinking that i might get some company's answer phone.

 

Answered by a woman from the MBNA Ireland call centre

" hello"

Sev - now waking up and smelling the coffee "hi, er, is that andy?"

 

lady "no, can I have your name please"

 

Sev "sorry, but who are you"

 

lady "can I ask who i'm talking to"

 

Sev "You're not andy then?"

 

lady "do you have an account with us?"

 

Sev "sorry I must have the wrong number"

 

Now here's the interesting bit...

 

I cal the same number an hour later and get a lady answering, the only question I ask is 'i've recieved a message to call thi number"

 

All I get in reply is "yes Mr Sev, we'd like to talk about your MBNA account"... they knew who I was from my number coming through on their screen, no security questions, no nothing.

 

Perhaps we can use this thread to make others aware of the various tactics so we can be prepared... what do you think?

 

[MODERATED: Inappropriate comments removed]

[Sev]

Right, sorry for the delay in posting but here's the update to the saga...

 

on 12th July, I received a letter from Stuart Johnson saying that he has credited my account with £510.00 - exactly half of that which his list of charges say I have paid in the last six year since Oct 01.

 

I'm going to send a letter saying that this is no longer acceptable.

 

I cant even answer my mobile anymore due to the DCA's that still harrass and pester on behalf of these vermin. - Also I got a phone call from my parents who are once again under telephone seige thanks to the tactics of these oxygen thieves.

 

The letter also states that they disagree with the OFT verdict, and that the charges have always been fair.

 

I have been given another point of contact in the advocates office - Claire Pownall, customer advocate - 01244 672628

 

Will write a letter to MBNA as soon as I calm down, as at the moment it isn't to endearing!!

[angry cat]

Yes Sev-

You make sure that you claim back all of the charges, plus interest-

 

Re the Harassment-

Make a formal COMPLAINT stating that you only wish to be contacted by letter and NOT by telephone - put that in writing to MBNA and send a copy to the DCA's.

 

Here is a suggested letter that you might try? obviously alter it, to suit you own situation.

 

Dear ****--

 

"I am familiar with The Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance. The purpose of the guidance is intended to set out the type of behaviour the OFT considers to fall under the category of unfair business practices.

 

Physical and Psychological Harassment

 

*2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive

 

*2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:-

 

*d. not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as appropriate resulting in repetative and/or frequent contact by different parties

 

*e. Not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a different debt collector.

 

*f. Pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so.

 

*h.Ignoring or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are DISPUTED and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

*i. Disclosing and/or threatening to disclose debt details to THIRD PARTIES unless legally entitled to do so.

 

DECEPTIVE AND/OR UNFAIR METHODS

 

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair

 

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:-

 

*Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

 

I would also draw your attention to the BANKING CODE which sets out standards of good banking practice for financial institutions to follow when they are dealing with personal customers in the United Kingdom.

 

SECTION 13 LENDING

 

*13.6

We may give information to Credit Reference Agencies about personal debts you owe if:

 

*The amount owed is NOT in dispute.

 

SECTION 14 financial difficulties

 

* 14.1

We will consider cases of Financial Difficulty sympathetically and positively.

 

I take the view that MBNA and it's instructed agents are Harassing me, together with the fact that you are obviously NOT considering my case sympathetically or positively, when MBNA is very well aware of the fact that; I am in Dispute.

 

I demand that you and your instructed agents, immediately desist from your unfair methods/practices against me.

 

Yours"

 

I hope this suggested letter will make MBNA sit up and think.

 

Kind thoughts

 

Angry Cat

[surreyscouse]

Claire Pownall - now that's a name i haven't seen on these threads before, i wonder if they have just had a bit of a recruitment drive ? Can't imagine why they would need more staff

[Sev]

Right, i've calmed down enough and thrown this together...

 

Claire Pownall

Customer Advocate

Abbey Credit Card

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9FB

 

Tuesday 1st August 2006

 

Dear Ms Pownall

 

Re Account No/Reference No: yada yada yada

 

Thank you for Mr Johnson’s recent communication regarding your position on bank charges and the recent OFT ruling.

 

I would also like to thank you for your offer of the goodwill payment credited to my account for the sum of £510.00

 

However, as your list of charges show, the total ammount in charges levied by yourselves is £1056.00, which leaves a sum of £546 outstanding. I feel justified in requesting this further sum in light of several factors:

 

Your responsibilities

First of all, I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

Your Tactics

As you know, you are not my only creditors for whom my loss of earnings has affected. However, you are the most aggressive and merciless in the tactics that you use in order to retrieve your monies. The psychological and mental strain that MBNA alone has forced me to endure is truly unforgivable.

 

You forwarded my detail onto a company called Global Vantedge – it was nearly two months after the first phone call before Global Vantedge ever sent me a letter announcing that they had been authorised by you to collect monies on your behalf, and I have never had a letter from yourselves indicating that the debt had been passed on to GVI. All I ever had was a standard letter indicating the repercussions of not paying. If I can draw your attention to one particularly despicable entry on a letter signed by a Mr Joe Sbriglia – Head of Customer Assistance:

 

“Prospective employers can also have access to the information”

 

I am fully aware of the repercussions of not paying, but the threat of compromising future employments as a scare tactic in inexcusable.

 

Global Vantedge called on average three times each day, unless a payment had been made on that day. On each occasion I asked them to stop as this was causing me considerable distress, and in the case of the daytime calls was actually detremental to my job. Continued telephone calls after requesting they refrain constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

In continuing to ring me after the request to stop, they are in breach of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949.

 

Following three telephone calls on Christmas Eve, and one on Christmas morning I telephoned BT and asked if the number could be barred, apparently as an overseas telemarketing company, BT are powerless to stop the calls. A clever piece of planning on your part.

 

Global Vantedge do take the accolade or persistence, but I think that the first prize must go to your Irish call centre. I would like to give you some exapmles of their behaviour, which I take it, are fully sanctioned and approved of my yourselves:

 

Personal Attacks

“Mr Sev, it’s not my fault that you spent our companies money knowing that you can’t pay it back” – In defence to this, I would like to reiterate that as soon as I realised that my my earnings would be cut, and no means to pay were possible, it was I who telephoned your debt management team in order to seek help. It was also ‘not my fault’ that my company has suffered a downturn in orders and this has lead to nearly a one hundred percent drop in wages.

 

Telephone messages

“Oh hi, just calling about the conversation we had other day. Could you call me back on…” On responding to this vague message I was greeted by one of your Irish call centre staff, who proceeded to tell me that I had arrears on my account. No security was saught, merely my phone number flashing up on her monitor was obviously enough security.

 

Humiliation

You have a land line registered against the account xxxxx xxxxxx. This telephone number is that of my parents’ property. How dare one of your operatives call that number, asking only for a Mr Sev. Based on the information given him, that it was indeed Mr Sev, without further security, prcedded to enlighten him as to the ammount owed and that court action was inevitable if he didn’t pay.

 

The damage you have done to the relationship and trust between myself and my parents has been catastrophic. And yet you still telephone and disrespect their wishes to not be communicated. I would ask that this number be removed from your records. I am willing to take whatever you wish to throw at me, but I will not have you intimidate and psychologically batter two elderly people who now do not want to even pick up their telephone. How dare you.

 

My only crime has been to have the misfortune of loss of earnings, and as I have said in each and every correspondence, I have every intention of repaying my debt to you as soon as I can. But, I cannot pay you with what I do not have.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Mr Sev

 

cc.

Michael Rhodes – Chief executive officer

Donna Pumfrey – Solicitor

Customer Satisfaction Department

 

 

Oh and one other... Kenneth D. Lewis -Chairman, CEO and President of the Bank of America.

Bank of America have just taken over MBNA in the USA and so given the speed of airmail these days...

 

 

Angry Cat, i'll work your letter into mine - it's already a two pager, looks like we might as well make it four!

 

Surreyscouse, I bet your right, that's why I thought i'll just let it hit home like a rank dose of VD

I'll keep you posted!

[surreyscouse]

Sev,

 

I know you are quite rightly frustrated mate, but don't waste any more time sending letters to the states. I had a conversation with them months ago and they told me that they will kep no record of my complaint as that is what the english operation is for.

 

What i did in view of this was a constant email bombardment of Shane Flynn who was CEO at the time and eventually he emailed me back. Try that approach with michael.rhodes@mbna.com or even better (and persevere with this) is call him on 01244 672040 and try between 12 - 2 pm when his pa is out and he answers the phone himself. I say persevere as he is not there everyday obviously

[Sev]

Got this phone message left for me yesterday.

 

I have included a full transcript in the letter a couple of posts up, and will be posting them on the weekend so that they're there on all three desks monday morning.

 

"I’d like to draw your attention to the most recent message from your Irish call centre, and it goes as follows – word for word. I have this recorded:

 

Thursday 2rd August 15.38

“This is a call for Sev, this is david here calling from the abbey national, we have left four messages for you now in the last five days, and you havent responded to any of them.

 

The situation is that your arrangement to pay 46 pound now going to fall off the credit card, and its looking likely that we wont be able to put you on an agreement again, which means that your account will default and your debt sold off.

 

What I’m asking you to do is give me a call on 01244 673093, so that we can arrange a payment on your credit card to prevent this happening, and so we can keep your business, and prevent any debt collectors coming about. Once again the number is 01244 673093, 01244 673093. Call as soon as you get this. “

 

In my defence to his comments, and to recap what I have already talked about in this letter:

 

The first Paragraph – Yes I have ignored messages, but there were not four of them. I am paralysed with fear at picking up a telephone now. I am scared to talk to your staff. I have no longer the mental fortitude to resist or try to reason with your staff.

 

The second paragraph – I agreed to the payment of 46 pounds as this was the only way of stopping the bombardment of telephone calls. I owe mint credit card £2000, and they offered to put forward a payment of five pounds a month – I didn’t have to ask. Your staff just kept telling me how I would face court action. If you were as honourable as MINT a realistic figure of 10 pounds would be offered. But this would admit compassion on your part. And I understand that you cannot show weakness.

 

The Third Paragraph - IF I call this David, he will persist in making me part with money which I do not have. I have paid ten pounds this month, and depending on whether I have work next month, perhaps I could make more. – Something I know will not be to your agreement.

 

Also his words about keeping my custom! – After what I have been through, and more importantly the seige that you have laid at the feet of two elderly individuals, what gives you the right to dare tell me that you value my custom and wish to keep my business?

 

And I am fully aware of what happens when you unleash your Indian Debt collecting agency.

 

 

Due to your actions, my work has deteriorated to the point of disciplinaries. My mental stability is fragile, and the relationship that I shared with my family has been destroyed. You have stripped me of any dignity and belief in compassion and decency. I can honestly say that suicide is an option which now seems more appealing than attempting to carry on.

 

And all for what?, coming to you in the first instance and asking for help."

 

I got called in to my managers' office today. Work have noticed that my standards have dropped, and that my phone's going off alot. If it doesn't improve, then I can look forward to a pleasant meeting with an hr officer present.

 

Whats the point. Really. What is the point anymore.

[gordonhall]

Hi Sev,

 

Sounds like you have a lot on your plate and struggling to cope. If you can get any time off, or have any coming soon, I would make your way to citizens advice asap and see what they can do to help.

 

Keep up with the info on here, and we'll all do what we can. Sorry to hear you are so stressed with it all.

[callumsgran]

Hey Sev, dont let them get you down hon, its not worth it! as gordon says try to get some time off, maybe throw a sickie for a few days? your bosses cant penalise you if you have a sick note, then try to sort out something with the cab asap. if you want a chat pm me tomorrow, i should be available all day ok? keep your chin up and dont let them win!!! :)

[angry cat]

Sev Just Checking to Make Sure that You are Okay-

 

Maybe, you have some holiday time due?

Perhaps, take a few days off, alterntively phone in Sick, but use a Tummy Bug (Very difficult for an employer to prove) but check your companies Rules & Reg's regarding sickness.

 

See your doctor, put it on record and make it very clear that the Banks actions are causing you Great Stress, which they are!

 

MBNA are clearly guilty of Phsychological Harassment-

Disgustingly Bad Business Practices/Methods and....Remember at the end of the day, that this is only about money. Try to keep things in perspective.

 

Lots of LOVE

 

Angry Cat:)

[surreyscouse]

Sev,

 

Can't add too much mate.

 

I've been through what you are now but not through bad luck like you've had but pure stupidity in taking on too much debt at once. Trust me on this, it will all come out in the wash and things always look up at the end of the day.

 

Angry cat says some lovely words mate and in a weird sort of way you should take comfort in the fact that people who you don't know on a personal level feel enough to put such feelings down in words. We are all on this site for the same reasons and it is a cracking community. By and large, most people hang about after getting their refunds to help others out and don't just disappear once they have their money back. I have finished with MBNA but still spend all day trying to help others out.

 

Mate, all you can do is what you already are. Don't get disillusioned with what you are writing to them though. The person who reads your letter may think you are just laying it on thick with what you say. I don't doubt what you say and what has happened and at least if push came to shove you have everything very well documented in your favour if needs ever be.

 

We're all here for you mate, my favourite saying at the moment is be strong. So be strong my friend !