Groovycaz v The unCooperative Business Bank

[groovycaz]

Hi all, recieved this, this morning

 

Charges Stayed,

the court states that the claim is identical to those likely to be the subject of proceedings in the commercial court between the OFT and certain financial institutions,

 

The claim is stayed until one calender month after final judgement in the test cases (including any appeal) or 31st October 2008, whichever is sooner.

 

Either party may upon notice to the other apply to lift stay at any stasge up to the earliest of the two dates provided for in pharagraph 1 above.

 

If no application is made to lift the stay or seek further directions before the earliest of the dates provided for in pharagraph 1 above the claim shall stand dismissed without further order.

 

Because the order has been made by the court without considering representations from the parties, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party wishing to make an application must send or deliver the application to the court (together with the appropriate fee) to arrive within seven days of service of this order.

 

Dated 07 September 2007..

[elsinore]

 

Because the order has been made by the court without considering representations from the parties, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party wishing to make an application must send or deliver the application to the court (together with the appropriate fee) to arrive within seven days of service of this order.

 

 

Are you going to apply, GC?

 

Els

[groovycaz]

Hi Els, most certainly am, Ive been looking around the site for wording from others in a simslar position, there are letters objecting to stays, however I also want to go down the hardship line as regards to working/child tax credit and as my little boy is Autistic and in reciept of DLA, I believe this could help in getting the Stay lifted, it looks at the moment that the DJs are Staying all claims whether they include UTCCR or not, makes you wonder whether they understand what, exactly the test case is about, Ive thought about waiting but to be honest after my Citi claim was stayed I just want to see an end to this one..Gc

[groovycaz]

Hi Els

found some good stuff on photomans thread "claiming on a business account" regarding stays, Il get a letter together and post on here see what you think, Thanks GC

[elsinore]

Oh good, you've found it already. That's what I was going to direct you to.

It seems to me that, with the inclusion of the hardship aspect, you now have all the ammunition you need to succeed.

 

Els

[zootscoot]

Hi Groovy,

 

You might also like to start a thread here to help other business claimers objecting to a stay:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cases-stayed-pending-oft/

 

Best of luck

 

Zoot

[groovycaz]

Hi all (Groovycaz v uncooperative Business Bank)

Ive had word from the DG that they have Stayed my Business Claim, we have submitted AQ and were waiting for a date for a pre lim hearing regarding the Limitation Act , Im in the process now of putting together my application to have the Stay lifted, will post the details, have to get a move on with this as I have 7 days from date of service which is Mon 24th..Gc

[zootscoot]

Good luck GC

[groovycaz]

Could someone please look over my Objection to a Stay please,

 

OBJECTION FOR ORDER OF STAY

 

1 I strongly object to the order of a stay to await the final determination of the proceedings recently issued at the Commercial Court involving the Offive of Fair Trading and 8 National Financial Institutions, claim no 2007 Folio 1186 ( "The OFT test case") in respect of the claim detailed above and respectfully request that the stay that was ordered on the **** be removed. The Claimant relies on the following grounds.

 

2 The account NO ***** was held by the Claimant with the Defendant to be used exclusively for the purpose of the Claimants Business Banking activities.

Consequently, any contract or account ferms and condsitions were not covered by or subject to the UTCCR 1999, as the acts definition of "consumer" in paragraph 3, clearly excludes the applicability of the Act with regards to Business Bank Contracts. ("Consumer" means any natural person who in contracts covered by these regulations, is acting for the purpose outside his trade, business or profession).

 

3 Thus the Claimant asserts the following.

 

(a) The current action being taken by the OFT against the Defendant and /or similar financial institutions is clearly stated as being with exclusive regard to "consumer" accounts and is also confined to investigating the reasonableness of contract terms covered by the UTCCR 1999. It does not raise or seek to examine any similar issues or basis in law presented to them.

 

(b) Thus the Claimant asserts that any outcome of the OFTs case could not be considered as setting any form of precedent, or have any bearing or relevance either way upon the conduct or outcome of this particular case. Furthermore, the current test case is inapplicable to the details of the present claim, which can only be determined by a court hearing. Under the overriding objevctives of the Civil Procedure Rules, it would be unjust for the court to declare any stay in these proceedings in order to await the outcome of the current test case, or any other unrelated development.

 

© Furthermore, the eight banks involved in the High Court test case have recently published identical statements on their websites informing customers that they expect the Test Case to last over a year. Moreover, the nature and gravity of the case is such that any judgement is highly likely to be appealed to the Court of Appeal and possibly even then, even appealed further to The House of Lords. It is thus submitted that the time of the final determination of the Test Case cannot be predicted and so the stay would be indeterminate, which is contrary to the right of entitlement to a fair hearing within a reasonable time as provided for by Article 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

 

4 I would respectfully draw the Courts attention to the Master of the Rolls decision that all outstanding bank charges cases should not be automatically stayed. The Deputy head of Civil Justice wrote to all designated Civil Judges, inviting them to consider staying outstanding claims on an indivdual case-by-case basis as appropriate.

 

5 Therefore I respectfully object that this stay has been imposed by the Court without representations from either party and without regard for the individual factors that distinguish this from similar cases, or indeed the fundamental issues of the OFT Test Case itself.

 

6 I, the Claimant, therefore respectfully request the stay be lifted and my claim number xxxxxxxx be allowed to proceed.

 

Signed

 

Dated

 

 

Please comment on whether this is ok to send in to the courts, I need to get my objection in the post on Monday,

 

many thanks Gc

[zootscoot]

Excellent!

 

You might also like to mention that Co-op is not party to the agreement or the test case.

[groovycaz]

Excellent!

 

You might also like to mention that Co-op is not party to the agreement or the test case.

 

Thanks for the quick reply Zootscoot, I was'nt sure if I was missing anything else, im a bit concerned at the moment because the last I heard from the Coop solicitors was that they requested a pre lim hearing to overcome the limitation issues, should I also send a letter to their solicitors with a copy of my objection?..Gc

[zootscoot]

Yes send a copy to the solicitors.

 

You won't need to do anything regarding the limitation issue until the stay has been lifted.

[groovycaz]

Hi all,

recieved letter from the court this morning, hearing of the claimants application to lift the stay will take place on 25th oct and 20 mins allowed,

 

better get my act together, with all these stays have'nt been doing much with bank charges..Gc

[groovycaz]

Hi all

hearing to have stay lifted on 25th oct time to get my act together..Gc

[zootscoot]

Hi groovy

 

Check out the bundle for stay hearing in the bank templates library. It should contain all you need.

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

Best of luck

[groovycaz]

Hi Zoot,

is that all i'l need, do i do 3 copies again and just take them on the day as well as my reasons for objecting, as the letter only came on sat its not even 2 weeks for the usual exchanging of docs..thanks Gc

[zootscoot]

Yes three copies. Its quite common for stay hearings to be at short notice. It will be OK to take them on the day unless unless the letter states otherwise.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[zootscoot]

HI GC,

 

Have Co-op indicated that they will defend the application to lift a stay?

[groovycaz]

Hi Zoot, no ive heard nothing at all from the Co-op, I sent them a copy of the docs I sent into court and a letter with my reasons for objecting to the stay, and ive had nothing back from them, I know they recieved my letter because i did a track and trace on it, ive been wondering if they'l even turn up on the day!!.Gc

[groovycaz]

Hi all,

been to court this morning for my hearing to lift the stay, the bank didnt turn up so the DJ granted my application and said listed for the small claims track the 1st available date after 1st Dec... then got home to a letter from their solicitors stating that they do not propose to oppose the claimants application and trust their attendance at the hearing be excused...I could bloody swear, ive been on 2 days getting 3 bundles together, the DJ didnt recieve a copy of this letter in time either, never mind though at least we can move forward..Gc

[zootscoot]

At least you got the result you wanted. I can't believethey put you through all that for nothing. It wouldn't have hurt them to put a letter in the post. They are obliged to progress promptly claims which are not related to the test case under the waiver conditions. I would suggest their behaviour is in breach of this.

 

If you send an e-mail to admin@consumeractiongroup.co.uk givng brief details and a contact number you may be able to help with a complaint we are putting together for FSA.

 

Did you ask for costs for travelling and any time off work and preparation?

[groovycaz]

Hi Zoot, to be honest i was in and out in 2 mins at the most and didnt think about wasted costs, im shattered thinking about it all, been wakeing up about 3 in the morning going over things in my head so not to mess up, then this. The letter from the solicitos was dated 22nd Oct so they had plenty of time to inform both me and the courts that they were not opposing... Im hoping that now the case is going ahead they will just pay out, they know im part of CAG because i stick one of your stickers on all the letters i send them..Gc

[groovycaz]

Hi all, my stay was lifted and its now been allocated to the small claims track on 12 Dec..Gc

[groovycaz]

Hi all

got my court date today, its at 14.00 on the 12th Dec and 2 hrs allowed,

theres nothing about the co-op asking for a pre lim hearing as previous to argue limitation act, looks like full hearing..Gc

[groovycaz]

Hi Zoot, forgot to ask, do you think i should go for the wasted costs order from the last court hearing when the bank didnt turn up, they had plenty of time to inform both the court and myself instead of dating the letter 2 days before the hearing to say they were not opposing, >>Gc