First victory to Lloyds

[broke dave]

At last I can get on to my forum. It has been frozen most of the afternoon with all of you guests. Let us LTSB forum members get on with this. We need to get all of the facts together and then I'm sure GaryH, GuidoT or even Bankfodder himself will put a sticky on all sites for everyone to read.

At the moment some of us need help and we can't get on to our threads because the site is completely clogged.

Cheers,

broke dave

[junglie]

Do we know if Judge saw any cases after these and the banks were ordered to pay or were these the only cases to be heard today?

[H H Hrvatski]

Does this set the precedent we have all feared???

 

Nah. It's full of holes. Even if the judgment contained a cast-iron reason for the charges being legal after all, it wouldn't be binding on any other cases - this is pretty much the lowest possible rung of the civil justice ladder. This judgment can be no more than "persuasive authority" on future cases at the same level, meaning that the arguments laid out can be referred to - but they can also be rebutted and refuted. Which they would be.

 

I'm not a betting man, but I'd guess if Kev can avoid the bank's likely demand for security for costs by showing he has funds available to fight the case, then Kev's claim will be settled before it actually gets to the High Court, where a bank loss WOULD set a big fat precedent. There's always the chance that the bank might get another highly-sympathetic judge, but equally Kev would probably not be a litigant in person and would have a top brief to represent him and who wouldn't just accept the judge coming out with the kind of rubbish the DJ came out with in this case. The stakes for the bank are far, far too high - they didn't even defend this one intentionally, I'd reckon there's almost zero chance they'd risk millions of pounds defending the appeal.

[MARTIN3030]

Ok guys settle down.

I am sure there will be announcements as and when they are needed but you will understand the need to hold back from releasing anything on the main board until it is considered safe or certainly is considered as needed instructions In the meantime if you have urgent issues that require attention then you can still relay these to site helpers and Mods.

I think it is safe to say that there will be many people looking at the implications here not only on CAG but everyone involved in penalty charges reclaims from the Banks.

[itsamomentintime]

very bad decision you mean?

[soniceffect]

Thank you for posting your opinions on this BF as there seem to be a very mixed points of veiw on this. I agree however entirely with the same comment as above ... people need to prepare. We may all be claiming money back that we believe has been taken off us unlawfully, but never forget that:-

 

1. You are going through the Legal system, and this is serious stuff. Help is provided on here, however its no use whatsoever unless the advice is used.

 

and

 

2. Dont forget you are dealing with big companies. If you dont prepare, you can be very sure that they will.

[BankFodder]

Incidentally - my comments are not intended to be critical of Kevin.

Even the judge praised him for the way he conducted his own case.

 

However, if we had known of this hearing we could probably have provided him with more support and more help and more information than he had with him when he went into court.

[Josie8]

I am prepared to offer some finaincial help if you appeal.....I would hope others would be prepared to do the same. Do we have any Lawyers who would take the case on for a small or no fee?

 

 

Echo your sentiments..............I 'll pledge 100 to the fund because I think you will win at the High Court - just needs to be carefully thought out and presented and then g-d help the banks......they will have to refund every single customer without being asked - this will particularly help the more vulnerable customers who are scared of the banks calling in their loans etc if they complain............

 

Take heart.........this was only a lower court decision......it will be different when you reach the higher courts...............

[curlychic]

Lloyds victory in Birmingham

 

What should you do right now?

 

I think that the clear lesson here is that claimants should start taking their claims rather more seriously then they have so far.

 

Claims need proper preparation and ordinary litigants in person need to let other know that their claims are going to court.

 

This victory by Lloyds is discouraging but there is no reason yet to suggest that people should not stop claiming their money back.

 

Just start taking it seriously and prepare in good time.

 

We've said it often before - now here's the proof.

 

 

You have just hit it on the nose there Bankfodder

[broke dave]

At last,

Well said Martin. Everybody off the thread now. If you don't know what I am talking about - have a look how many guests there are viewing!!!! (33 and 75 users)

[janejfozzy]

Hi, I am really worried now. I have received a different defence (check my tread) and i have a court date on the 18th June. The court didn't want me to fill in a AQ, and i have no idea what "court bundle" to get together? Please can anyone help? Do i need to send anything off?

Thanks

Jane

[jansus]

there are threads in lloyds bank section

 

bit worrying but may have slipped through by accident. :-?

 

jansus

[FunnyMan]

Martin, thank you for posting above.

 

I would ask though that perhaps the setting up of a 'fighting fund' be considered to cover the costs of an appeal under the umbrella of CAG, a couple of members have already said they would contribute as would I.

 

Kev, sorry mate it was bound to happen to one of us at some time, you just drew the short straw ('there but the grace of God go I' springs to mind, hence I feel I have a moral duty to assist you as much as I can).

 

We are all with you and this is the time perhaps for the 100,000+ members to really show what we are about.

[I_feel_cheated]

I very much doubt the bank would defend this at high court - however if they did decide to defend an appeal - Can you imagine the press coverage - the news, papers, internet - the first of its kind with Lloyds TSB right in the spotlight.

 

I don't think they could handle the backlash either - I mean there would be tens of thousands of customers demanding refunds - they simply haven't got the logistics to deal with such a situation - it would burry them for months - the admin/staff - and the complaints. It would be all just too much and would run into millions - FWIT I think they are probably bitting there teeth.

 

Good luck Kev - but for me business as usual

[oyster11]

Was the bank victory an accident?

BBC NEWS | Business | Was the bank victory an accident?

 

"Either way, Lloyds TSB may be feeling pleased with itself today - but that feeling may evaporate quite soon."

 

Just a blip.. It could be ultimately for the good as it might lead to a High Court Case.. sort them out once and for all!!

 

 

Oyster

 

 

 

 

[fedupconsumer]

Echo your sentiments..............I 'll pledge 100 to the fund because I think you will win at the High Court - just needs to be carefully thought out and presented and then g-d help the banks......they will have to refund every single customer without being asked - this will particularly help the more vulnerable customers who are scared of the banks calling in their loans etc if they complain............

 

Take heart.........this was only a lower court decision......it will be different when you reach the higher courts...............

Would CAG be preapred to set up a fund to help fight this stupid ruling. It could effect millions of people and we can't let the Banks get away with it. Revolt the right way. I will donate £500. to the fund if other will follow

[Tigs33]

That is very generous of you fedupconsumer, we seem to have a growing number of pledges for Kev's appeal on his thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/35751-kevboy_telford-lloyds-4.html#post825559

 

[Louiselouise]

Count me in for a donation for Kevs appeal.

[Spiceskull]

There has been an update to this story, with the judge himself making a comment suggesting that he may have been the subject of what amounts to a clerical error:

Campaigners against bank charges have suggested that the banks are so swamped by claims that they, and the outside legal firms they employ, are in some cases simply losing track of the paperwork, and that this one slipped through.

 

Mr Berwick suggested in court that might have been the case with him.

 

"He may be right in that," commented Judge Cooke.

- read it here and here you can read the full approved judgement.

[fidz]

Hello all I have been doing a little research on all this as i have been paying 'fees' fro the last well a very long time at least since 2003 and have decided to start the ball rolling and am taking action now, i have been reading this thread all day as I'm new to all this and saw what seemed to be a not so good news report for us on the bbc only in a loyds case and from what i gather which is not so clear as yet or much as am still reading what has been released 1st the judgment was a district judgement, niether party was present and from what i read in the other threads it seems as though the caiment as are we all did not repesent the case properly so i hope the banks don't take this as an oppertunity to create even more delays any of us don't fold our cards early because of that manure type judgment so stay strong and lets stick to our guns

[jo1lygrngiant]

please count me in too.. although imvho, i think a case of this magnitude, may well be done pro bono..

 

imagine what law firm, or solicitor wouldnt want this kind of exposure for their firm?

 

to be part of a presedent (sp), would bring in far more, in future cases, then it would cost them to actually do the case..

 

but as ive jsut said, this is my vho.. and i may be totally wrong with my assumptions..

[lateralus]

i'm a bit naive - but do we song and dance everytime a claimant gets a judgment. if small claims can't set precedent - then this is just like the guy who got to send the bailiffs into his branch....... a one-off. each one will be done on it's merits - which means do it right, from the start.

the first fault i found in reading this guy's thread is that he claimed for all of the overdraft interest - you guys know i'd not have let him get away with that on this forum - i'm forever bleating on about not doing that.

what i'm saying is - until someone says differently: as far as i'm concerned it's business as usual. we've a couple with court bundles due in in the next couple of days and other deadlines - let's see how dg reacts in the next couple of days. i vote for doing everything by the book and just carry on - nudging, filing properly, laying out the charges in a well ordered fashion, etc.

i don't believe for one second that dg just threw their hands up in the air and went out to drink champagne - it was one judge (maybe he wanted his 15 minutes of fame and he's got it now), giving his opinion.

let's just get on with the business of reclaiming.

[sharongina]

Is there a fund set up for Kev?

I think an appeal is needed for donations, count me in to!

[donnalou]

We do not know what the details of Mr Berwick's claim and argument were. He considered it to be well-argued but there could well be elements he overlooked. Everyone should remember that it comes down to one key fact: the bank must prove that its charges do not exceed its costs. There is plenty of legal precedent for this but no mention in the article. They might well claim that they are charges for a service but this is not what is stated in their T&Cs. I think the Judge in this case made a poor and uninformed decision. I really feel that something must have been missing here and I for one will keep on with my claims.

 

P.S. Has anyone else experienced the courts not sending out allocation forms and booking 6 or so people into one hearing? Any feedback welcome.

ive the 13th of july (fri:o ) and in the letter they say that 7 others will be heard

[mellymum]

Im usually a born worrier, but to be honest, Ive paid my £120, so for me to proceed and possibly loose (worst case scenario) Ive still lost £120. But if I carry on, get my court bundle and fight to the end, Ive tried and havent given up and could get what Im owed! I'll either stay £120 out of pocket like now, or fight for the rest.

 

I have no intention of giving up, we have nothing to loose, if your already in court proceedings, there are no more expenses that Ive been told about. Get to that court date and carry on as normal, if you quit now the banks have won.

 

I may be asking lots of questions on my thread to make sure I am prepared and dont make ANY mistakes! Off to the bank tommorow to get a copy of my Terms and Conditions!