Capone (cap one)

[speedtrip]

bloody hell:o

[Maggiebroom]

True to form Crap 1 have started the calls again. I thought they had taken the hint but no they are now averaging 6 calls a day and counting.

 

Hey Ho!! it all adds to the case

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

Yesterday I received this letter from Crap 1, and I am absolutely hopping mad.

 

Dear Mrs maggiebroom

 

Re account No: 0000000000000000

 

We have received a letter from the Financial Ombudsman (FOS). I understand you 're unhappy about the telephone calls we've made for payments and that you'd like the calls to stop. (understatement)I want to explain about the way we've handled your account which I hope will resolve your concerns.(my concerns will only be resolved when you stop phoning)

Each time we didn't receive your minimum payment on time, we added a late mark to your credit file. This can affect your ability to obtain credit in the future. As we didn't want this situation to happen, we called you about your missing payments. We tried to offer help (you demanded money, no offer of help was spoken of)and advice to bring your account in order.

If we weren't able to speak to you, we called again. I realize you feel we've harassed you, but I want to assure you that we work within financial services guidelines for the collection of payments.(show me the OFT guidelines that say you may call 14 times a day every day of the week, for over three months)

In August, when your account became six months behind with your payments, we added a default which will stay on your credit file for six years. We have also passed your account to a debt collection agency which means you'll need to arrange future payments with them to clear your balance.(the default was illegal as the alleged account is still in legal dispute until you provide a properly executed aggreement. Also the debt collection agency is another department of Capital One, and it must have taken you all of two minutes to walk down the hall and dump this account on Debitas desk)

I'm disappointed we weren't able to stop action we've recently taken. However, I hope you can understand more about why we've needed to call and write to you about your account.(is there someone standing over you with a shotgun to stop you taking my phone number off your call centre list? and No I do not understand why you have needed to call at all. All that should be said can be written, and all you are doing is getting a larger phone bill.)

I hope I've explained things clearly, but if you have any further questions, please write back to me within four weeks. My address is in the leaflet I've included. If I don't hear from you I will consider the matter closed.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Ellie Renshaw.

 

At the moment this case is stalemate, as they cannot produce a properly executed agreement. They have added charges and interest despite a legal dispute. I shall compose a very caustic letter and disple y it here before I send it.

 

I hope someone will look and tell me if I have gone wrong.

Hubby received similar letter so my reply will be for both of us. I am off to compose as we speak.

 

maggiebroom

[midge61]

Hi maggie

 

This letter states that the FOS have written with regard to the phone calls only. Didn't you complain about all of it i.e charges and default?

 

If you did then a copy of this to the FOS saying that you are not happy with the response from Cap 1 and that you wish them to investigate further would be in order methinks.

 

They really are taking the p*** ! They must think we are all complete idiots!

 

Good luck

[Maggiebroom]

Hi Midge

 

So far my complaint has only been about the telephone harassment. the charges and default will come later. The harassment has been so bad that we have concentrated on that. The other lot will be sorted if and when we get properly executed CCA's.

 

Any way I have written a response to Crap 1 and would appreciate anyones opinion. I may have come on too strong as I am so hopping mad with Crap 1 patronizing me.

 

Dear Ellie Renshaw

 

Account no: 0000 0000 0000 0000 and 0000 0000 0000 0000

 

Thank your for your letter received 7th November.

To say that we are unhappy is a gross understatement. Your continuous phone calls are intimidating, bullying and harassing to say the least. You have been told, and written to on more than one occasion that we will only respond to written communication yet still you maintain a steady call regime, that is in effect only adding to your own phone bill.

 

You will not receive payments on our accounts until you produce properly executed agreements, under the terms of the CCA 1974, or take the matter to Court where we will be most pleased to put forward our case. Unfortunately this cannot happen until the Financial Ombudsman Service have completed their enquiries and given their final response.

 

In no way are your company attempting to help either my husband or myself. We have only ever received demands for payments (illegally by the way, as the account is in legal dispute and until you produce properly executed agreements, will remain so).

 

If you are indeed claiming that you have not harassed us to the point of illness, will you please point out to me the section of the financial services guidelines that says your company is allowed to telephone your customers up to 14 times a day, every day, for at least three months. (All these calls have been logged by date and time, and can be easily proved or disproved on production of your telephone records.) You have also passed the accounts on to a debt collection agency which you claimed to be an outside agency, when Debitas is in fact a department of Capital One. This is also against all guidelines that refer to accounts in clear legal dispute. All payments, interest rates and charges should be suspended until the dispute is settled, but you have chosen to ignore these sections of the CCA 1974.

 

We also object to your patronising attitude that you feel you must explain to us every reason you put forward against our claims being dealt with in an appropriate manner. I am afraid we are of the opinion that your company has been somewhat economical with the truth.

Should you decide that you wish to pursue this matter in court we shall look forward to receiving all relevant documents pertaining to the properly executed agreements we have demanded.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Don't know what you lot think. I may have gone over the top so a bit of editing will be welcome

 

 

maggiebroom

[midge61]

Hi

 

Don't know if I'm on the right track but as the FOS are investigating I would send a copy of their letter to them and say you do not accept it as resolving the matter and want FOS to investigate further.

 

At the end of the day that is what FOS are supposed to do so make them work for their money.

 

Just my thoughts:)

[davey77]

Hey maggie,

 

ah Ellie Renshaw...I've had her letters and she really doesn't give any ground at all does she. Crap1 could send round 3 guys to your place with a truck loads of tomatoes and spend an hour chucking them at your front window yet on complaining all the reply from Ellie would be was that they were in the legal right and within OFT guidelines to chuck tomatoes at your window! Although, you will never find hers, or any other replies, sighting the exact line within the Consumer Credit Act or OFT guidelines to back up their statements. They simply say "this is what we are allowed to do and you have to take our word for it!"

 

I know it's very tempting to write back a very strongly worded and emotional response but i have found that they look at that kind of a reply as proof (to them at least) that they are getting under your skin and grinding you down.

I have found that i get a better response, and a quicker one at that, if you reply unemotionally. Rather like a solicitors letter or the type they often send you. Personally my reply would be the parts you have added above in black, picking out the inconsistencies and factual errors including dates etc.

Also, a complete list of all phonecalls (im sure you have been keeping a record) no matter if that means sending her 10 A4 sheets! (make the font bigger so that it covers more space! lol) Dates, times etc.

 

I would also site the recent case where a woman got the bank to back down after pestering her with calls. She said she "felt bullied by the calls" saying they were "unprofessional and disrespectful" when the bank tried to contact her 33 times, by phone and letter, between January 27 and March 13.

 

 

Channel 4 - News - 'Bank harassment' claim settled

[Maggiebroom]

HI Davey

 

Of course you are right and I knew I would have to reword it, but it felt so good writing it down and stamping each key as I did it.

 

I shall rewrite it today and get it off tomorrow. I can indeed cite the case of the girl from Halifax. I read that case with great interest. Her calls only totalled 33. Mine have now hit the 400 mark :o and they are only since July. There were many more before that. What I don't understand is why if the act states that harassment is a criminal offence the polive have no desire to get involved and will do nothing. Even when I pointed that out to them, they refused to talk to me.

 

Hey Ho the fight goes on.

 

maggiebroom

[davey77]

I know what you mean.. done the same myself and it sure does feel good doesn't it!

 

Did you make a seperate complaint to the Police in writing about their lack of help?

 

Part of one of my replies to Halifax may be of use:

 

Please be advised that the above account is clearly in dispute and as such i suggest you adhere to OFT guidelines and the Consumer Credit Act 1974, specifically the following:

 

“h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are

disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment”

 

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.”

[davey77]

p.s, Did you get that reply to your email ok? Just checking as you know what hotmail is like lol

[Maggiebroom]

The police complaint is going in on Monday as they were completely unhelpful, and I do not understand it. I can only assume that they are afraid of the big institutions or don't want the paper work.

 

Yes I got the email OK and thank you very much.

 

I have also added the bit of your letter that you gave me, and when I have finished the actual missive I will repost it for your perusal. It is much toned down with subtle hints of "screw you".

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

Hi

 

Don't know if I'm on the right track but as the FOS are investigating I would send a copy of their letter to them and say you do not accept it as resolving the matter and want FOS to investigate further.

 

At the end of the day that is what FOS are supposed to do so make them work for their money.

 

Just my thoughts:)

 

Hi Midge

 

Exactly what I intend to do. Crap 1 are clearly taking the p**** out of the FOS as well.

A copy will go off to them on Monday.

 

maggiebroom

[davey77]

good oh maggie.. your on to them. Keep the pressure on. I like the subtle hints of "screw you"! Sounds good to me!

[Maggiebroom]

Well here is the edited version of my letter. I think it is much better but not so satisfying

 

 

Dear Ellie Renshaw

 

Account no: 0000 0000 0000 0000 and 0000 0000 0000 0000

 

Thank your for your letter received 7th November.

Your continuous phone calls are intimidating, bullying and harassing. You have been told, and written to on more than one occasion that we will only respond to written communication yet still you maintain a steady call regime, thus only adding to your own phone bill. To date your calls have amounted to over 400. This is completely unacceptable. If you are indeed claiming that you have not harassed us, will you please point out to me the section of the financial services guidelines that says your company is allowed to telephone your customers up to 14 times a day, every day, for at least three months. (All these calls have been logged by date and time, and can be easily proved or disproved on production of your telephone records.) I am enclosing a copy of my call log of all your calls up to the date of this letter.

 

I find it hard to believe that you are unable to stop the calls. You have only to take our telephone number off the accounts, which is what you claimed you had done to the Trading Standards Officer.

Clearly this was untrue and I have made her aware of this.

 

Please be advised that the above accounts are clearly in dispute and as such we suggest you adhere to OFT guidelines and the Consumer Credit Act 1974, specifically the following:

 

h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are

disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

 

You will not receive payments on our accounts until you produce properly executed agreements, under the terms of the CCA 1974, or take the matter to Court where we will be most pleased to put forward our case. Unfortunately this cannot happen until the Financial Ombudsman Service have completed their enquiries and given their final response.

In no way are your company attempting to help either my husband or myself. We have only ever received demands for payments (illegally, as the account is in legal dispute and until you produce properly executed agreements, will remain so).

 

You have also passed the accounts on to a debt collection agency which you claim to be an outside agency, when Debitas is in fact a department of Capital One. This is also against all guidelines that refer to accounts in clear legal dispute. All payments, interest rates and charges should be suspended until the dispute is settled, but you have chosen to ignore these sections of the CCA 1974. Should you decide that you wish to pursue this matter in court we shall look forward to receiving all relevant documents pertaining to the properly executed agreements we have demanded.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Is that better folks?? OOPS I forgot to add in the reference to the Halifax case, but I will add that before I post the letter.

 

 

maggiebroom

[davey77]

Looks good to me! I think the Halifax case citation will add a great deal of weight to the letter as well as it is a proven actual case and nothing worries creditors more than those where the consumer has been proven to be in the right and have had their complaint upheld or settled in such a way! Ok so it didn't go to court but the only reason the Halfiax backed down was because they knew they would lose 100%!

 

When you have finished typing the best way to beat them is to put it out of your mind and have a cup of tea and a biscuit! Don't let the vultures enter your life any more than is needed. Let them worry about it and enjoy the rest of your day!

[Maggiebroom]

I think a stiff vodka would do me more good, but you are right. I intend to take the rest of the day off after all this excitement

 

Back later

 

maggiebroom.

[davey77]

lol yes Vodka works too! Popping off for a biscuit and a cup of tea myself now.. by the way, i made the biscuits myself!

[jonnyb1978]

What a great thread! I have eventually finished reading it!

Well done to you!!

 

I would send that final letter with a note on the bottom saying they are clearly in breach and until you recieve the CCA no further communication will be had whether by phone or in writing.

Write to the debt side stating the same thing that Capital one are in breach and whilst in dispute should not have passed on the debt to them. Again state that you have exhausted all options, so no further communication will be had until the FOS have finished the investigation. Then you will be starting court procedings on any as many of their failings as possible.

 

Unplug your phone for a day or so they they get a continuous dialling tone and hopefully they will give up until they threaten you with court.

[Maggiebroom]

HI Johnny

 

My friends already think we have moved away or are avoiding them as our phone is often unplugged, especially on Sundays.

Even we criminals have a right to a bit of peace

 

I really don't think there is any more we can say to Crap 1 at this stage. until the FOS deal with the complaint, we can go no further.

 

Ellie Renshaw asked for my response to her patronizing letter and she certainly got it. The original version was much much better than the above one that went off yesterday, but I had to tone it down. I think you are right though, if she replies to the above letter I shall write and say 'no more' till the FOS deal with it, and knowing how exceedingly slow the wheels at FOS grind I should think we will get at least 6 months of peace. That will give me time to regroup my senses, for the next round. (and save for the court case)

 

She said Hopefully

 

As for Debitas, I only think of them with contempt as sometimes my hubby talks to them to tell them to back off as we will not speak and all he gets is rudeness. I just hope our local Trading Standards office will feel sufficiently annoyed at Crap 1's lies that they will at last do something about them. I doubt it though as we all know how spineless TS are.

Meanwhile the fight goes on

 

 

maggiebroom

[hellhasnofury]

HI Johnny

 

My friends already think we have moved away or are avoiding them as our phone is often unplugged, especially on Sundays.

Even we criminals have a right to a bit of peace

 

I really don't think there is any more we can say to Crap 1 at this stage. until the FOS deal with the complaint, we can go no further.

 

Ellie Renshaw asked for my response to her patronizing letter and she certainly got it. The original version was much much better than the above one that went off yesterday, but I had to tone it down. I think you are right though, if she replies to the above letter I shall write and say 'no more' till the FOS deal with it, and knowing how exceedingly slow the wheels at FOS grind I should think we will get at least 6 months of peace. That will give me time to regroup my senses, for the next round. (and save for the court case)

 

She said Hopefully

 

As for Debitas, I only think of them with contempt as sometimes my hubby talks to them to tell them to back off as we will not speak and all he gets is rudeness. I just hope our local Trading Standards office will feel sufficiently annoyed at Crap 1's lies that they will at last do something about them. I doubt it though as we all know how spineless TS are.

Meanwhile the fight goes on

 

 

maggiebroom

 

Hello Maggie,

 

Have you got a hangover after your vodka OD,

 

Have your ever thought about recording those vile calls where they have been rude to you. That would be good evidence to have.

 

I really laughed at your comment "even criminals have the right to peace and quiet"

[Maggiebroom]

Update

 

Crap 1 are now increasing their phone calls daily and are back up to 9 per day. Each day they add another couple of calls. :o

 

A strong letter to the FOS adding to my complaint goes tomorrow with another very strong letter to Debitas (Crap 1's DCA) and also another strong letter to my local TS. Perhaps if I word it strongly enough they will act although I doubt it.

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

Not really relevant to this thread except for the CCA bit, but I thought it would bring a little lite relief.

 

Hubby has CCA'd Barclaycard and this is the transcript of a telephone call received the other day from Mercers debt collectors. This is truely what was said.

 

Hubby: Hello, Whos calling?

 

Mercers: Mercers here. You haven't made any payments to your Barclaycard, and we want some money.

 

Hubby: really. You won't get any money either until I get a properly executed CCA.

 

Mercers: Whats a CCA? :o :o

 

Hubby: Go away dear and find out, then you can demand money.

 

 

We haven't stopped laughing yet.

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

Hubby got a letter from Crap 1

 

Dear Hubby

 

We have noticed that you are still using this account even though it is defaulted. You must not use this credit card account. (I thought that if we had used the card it would have been refused anyway)

You have broken the terms and conditions of your agreement with capital One and your spending privileges have been taken away permanently. (Boo Hoo we are really upset especially as Crap 1 have broken our agreement too by not supplying a proper CCA) To prevent us from taking any further action, you must immediately:

 

1. Pay the outstanding balance. (again, produce a CCA)

2. Cut the card in half and make sure it has been safely disposed of. (did that months ago)

3. Cancel any regular payments you have set up on this account, such as insurance (eg card protection) or subscriptions (eg AOL, Sky Digital) (no payments set up, and we are Virgin Media)

 

if you do not take these steps, one of our agents maybe calling your home. (Feel free, you will leave the front garden quicker than you came in)

Unbelievable ain't it, but we think it is a ploy to get us to call them. (no chance)

 

This is our reply

 

Dear Debitas

 

I am in receipt of your letter. I would like to state categorically that I have not used the above account for months. There are no regular payments setup on this account and if there have been recent transactions they are fraudulent and I have become the victim of identity theft.

I would therefore ask that you send me a list of all recent transactions since the account was defaulted. I would like a record of all the dates times and places where these transactions are alleged to have occurred, so that I may pass them on to the local police and their identity theft and fraud department.

This matter will now have to be dealt with urgently and I await your immediate response to this request for a record of all alleged transactions that you refer to.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

Two can play the silly beggars game. What annoys us is that they really think we are too stupid to see through letters like this.

 

maggiebroom

[davey77]

"What's a CCA?" lol yeah thats funny! But 9 calls a day isn't Perhaps when you write to TS you could subtly hint to them that you will be seeking newspaper publicity regarding your case (and therefore TS's inaction) and that would jump start TS into taking your problems more seriously?

 

Have you also tried National Debtline, for FREE CONFIDENTIAL and INDEPENDENT ADVICE call 0808 808 4000 as i found them very helpful when i rang them a couple of times and they may have an idea that can help?

[hellhasnofury]

"What's a CCA?" lol yeah thats funny! But 9 calls a day isn't Perhaps when you write to TS you could subtly hint to them that you will be seeking newspaper publicity regarding your case (and therefore TS's inaction) and that would jump start TS into taking your problems more seriously?

 

 

Have you also tried National Debtline, for FREE CONFIDENTIAL and INDEPENDENT ADVICE call