my mother v Lloyds TSB **WON**

[lucid]

Hi,

 

You need to submit the same schedule of charges that you submitted when you filed your claim - the schedule doesn't have to be in the form of the spreadsheet. You should have worked out a daily rate of interest that was included in your particulars of claim. The daily rate is added to your total claim amount for every day until they repay the money - you don't need to provide a schedule to show this though.

 

Hoep that makes sense. Lucid

[fitsw6]

Thanks you yes.

 

Re: correspondance - Do I include ALL letters sent and received - to and from the bank and to and from the court?

eg. The 1st letter to the bank and thier reply (and all other letters)... Our AQ and the banks AQ... The Notice of Allocation... etc etc

[lucid]

You just submit all correspondance to and from the bank - none of the court letters or AQs are included. Also you can't include any Without prejudice letters from SC&M (if you've received any) - or any letters you've written in reply to them as you're not allowed to reveal the content of those letters to the court.

 

 

Lucid

[fitsw6]

ok. So basically there are only four letter to include:

 

1. My original request to the bank for the charges to be refunded.

2. Thier standard reply

3. My Re: your refusal to refund bank charges

4. Thier standard reply

[fitsw6]

On a side note... We have recieved 3 more charges since we started this claim and last week we got a letter saying that they are cancelling the overdraft facility and charging the higer rate of interst until we pay off the overdraft..

 

As the account is in dispute (claiming back charges) can they do this? what can I do stop them taking any action until this claim is finished?

 

We are seeing the local bank manager tomorrow (who has been very helpful in the past), can we ask her to return the 4 charges taken since this claim started (which will cover the overdraft) and freeze the account until the original claim has been resolved?

[fitsw6]

*4 more charges

[lucid]

I think they can withdraw overdrafts and demand repayment yes. I'm quite surprised that they've done this though. All of our accounts were overdrawn (over any overdraft limit) thorughout the whole process and we never had anything to say that they were withdrawing the overdraft. Have they got any reason - other than that fact that you're reclaiming charges - to suddenly withdraw your overdraft? Have you been exceeding the limit a lot and staying there for a while? If not then this is absolute retaliation and it really isn't on. If this is the case then I suggest you prepare yourself to point this out the Manager and make it clear that you will be filing complaints with relevant organisations.

 

Does your claim amount exceed your overdraft? If it does then I suggest you point out to the Manager tomorrow that the entire account balance is in dispute and that the hearing is on 22nd February. Ask for the 4 new charges to be refunded and if they are not then make it clear you will begin a new claim once your current one is finished. I would definitely try to get the account frozen until after 22nd Feb, then if your claim covers the overdraft it will all be repaid.

 

Don't get into any arguments in which you are trying to explain to the manager why you think charges unlawful. If she asks you why you are saying that explain that it's not necessary for you to argue the case there as you are more than happy to turn up in court to present your case to the Judge.

 

Good luck tomorrow. Lucid

[fitsw6]

great advice thanks

 

We have an agreed overdraft limit of £100 (now withdrawn by lloyds). By the time we started this claim (and stopped using the account) there was only about £20 overdrawn. the 4 charges make £130 and has taken us about £50 over the agreed overdraft limit to £150 overdrawn.

 

 

The total claim is for £620 which completly covers the original overdraft of £20 with change left over.

 

I will offer to pay the £20 to zero the account (and ask that the 4 charges be refunded) and show her the court documents we have concerning this claim and court date, and hopefully get the account frozen on a zero balance.

 

Does that sound ok?

[fitsw6]

ps - what are the relevant organisations?

[Bigmac versus]

When the bank addressed you complaint they should have given you literature regarding taking the matter further with the banking ombusman. What i would add is that the bank can close your acount remove O/D facility whenever they wish with written notice but they are not to be seen to be taking ths action as a retaliation.

[lucid]

The FSA's note on retaliatory action may be useful to look at:

 

Briefing Note BN 023/06

4 July 2006

 

FSA position on account closures and default charges

 

Generally, under FSA rules on dispute resolution and complaints, we would not expect any regulated firm to discriminate against a customer who makes a complaint.

 

However the relationship between a bank and its account holders, including the circumstances and manner in which accounts are closed, is governed by the Banking Code.

 

We have therefore raised this issue with the Banking Code Standards Board, and informed those firms involved that we have done so. As a result of those conversations, we understand that the Banking Code Standards Board intends to state its position on this issue presently. We encourage the industry to use this opportunity to demonstrate the value of the Code in ensuring fair and reasonable outcomes to such disputes.

 

Unfortunately as George says they can close account/remove overdraft with written notice but I think you should try to find out from the Manager why this hs happened. If your overdraft facility wasn't up for review then it really can be down to nothing else other than the fact that you are pursuing charge refunds. Unfortunately there probably isn't a lot you can do as it's hard to prove their reasons and they can just withdraw facilities for no reasons. Hopefully you will get a sympathetic Manager tomorrow and will at least be able to freeze interest until your claim pays it all off at the end of the month.

 

Lucid

[fitsw6]

This is the only 2 letters we have had on this matter:

 

1st letter dated 29th January:

 

Dear Mrs Lloyd

 

Your account details ************

 

We need to let you know that we have now removed your overdraft facility.

 

we did write to you about this. (they did not). As you have not been able to come to an arrangement with us, we have now removed your overdraft limit and have started charging you at a higer rate of interest of currently 2.20% a month. This works out as an equivalent rate, or EAR, of 29.85%.

 

Please let us reassure you that our intention is never to chase any of our customers. If we ask a customer to get in touch with us so we can help them, and they do not, we have to assume they do not want to sort out thier account. This is when we have to take some action to try and ensure your account rums smoothly. So please do get in touch with me or one of my team.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

2nd letter dated 30th January

 

Dear Mrs Lloyd

 

Your account details: ************

 

We want to let you know that your account is overdrawn without our agreement.

 

We do understand how easy it can be to go overdrawn, and also that it can hapen for a number of reasons. If you are still overdrawn, we would like you to bring your account back into credit as soon as you can. If you think you will not be able to do this within the next 7 days, please give me or one of my team a ring. We will be more than happy to try and help.

 

If you would like to talk any of this over, do please contact us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

We have an appoinment with our local bank manager tomorrow.

[lucid]

I suggest you request the bank manager to produce a copy of the original letter that was sent to you informing you that the overdraft would be removed. Make it clear that you never received this letter and you would like to see and have a copy. If she can't produce one then you need to find out how you can get a copy - which dept. to contact etc. It is important to push for one - if they can't produce it then it clearly (carefully chooses words for legal issues ) is a mystery.

 

This is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Lucid

[fitsw6]

Thanks for the advice.

 

Ill let you know what happens tomorrow

 

Gary

[fitsw6]

Well, we spent an hour and a half with the bank manager today. She spent most of that on the phone trying to help.... but in the end could not. She gave us a number to call for a department that would be able to help.

 

We called that department (which was basically the normal customer services number) but hit a brick wall on each of the three calls we made.

 

So we called to ask for the bank manager to call us back when she has time... which will hopefully be tomorrow.

 

 

The bank manager, Kate Mattingly, at the Downend branch in Bristol has bent over backwards to help and I can highly recommend her. But it would seem that the manager herself has been taken out of the LloydsTSB loop now and can not help anymore... but we thank her very much for her help that she was able to give.

 

I dont see this leading anywhere so we wait till the 22nd February for the court date after which we will no doubt be putting in a new claim for the recent charges.

 

Kate would like us to go visit her after this claim concludes and let her know the outcome... and she may be able to help with the recent charges on the basis that we win this claim.

 

Fingers crossed

[lucid]

You might find this thread interesting here. It is about a bank retaliating by closing the account but they got fined for it, so it's definiftely worth looking into complaining about this to the FOS.

 

 

Lucid

[fitsw6]

Well the fact that the bank manager could get nowhere but was advised to advise us to call a special department, and then that department was not reachable by phone... retaliation does seem like something they are doing.

 

We worry not though

 

Thanks for the link

[fitsw6]

Even though they have not threatned us with account closure, do we have grounds to complain on the fact that 3 weeks before the court date they remove the overdraft facility (without notice) and are now charging us the higer rate of interest with up to £90 a month in charges?

 

Should I complain to the bank 1st?

[lucid]

Hi,

 

If you keep a check on the thread I linked to above the person who got the bank fined has posted what they did. I believe that you have to exhaust the bank's own complaints procedure until they say there is nothing else we can do and refer you tothe Ombudsman if you want to proceed. You then have a letter as proof to the Ombudsman that you did try to keep the complaint with the bank.

 

I think it's definitely worth proceeding with once your claim has come to an end.

 

Lucid

[fitsw6]

Thanks again lucid - ur a star

[fitsw6]

I just phoned the court to make sure they have got my court bundle, because we havent got anything from SC&M, and the court was not sure who the docuemtens were from. I forgot to mention that the court bundle we sent was from us, the Claimant.

 

ooops!

 

Sending a letter to SC&M today for thier non-compliance with the court order to send us thier documents 14 days before the hearing.

[fitsw6]

Sent letter to SC&M today as posted here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/58011-sc-m-court-bundle.html#post485266

 

 

 

Thread title changed as you are suing them , they are not suing you

[fitsw6]

I checked the account today and have noticed they have paid some money in.

 

The claim is for £525 + interest £101.25 = £625.25

 

They have paid 1 payment of £525 and another payment of £130.35 = £655.35

 

Can I assume from this that they have paid the claim with NO interest and the court costs?

 

Do I need to chase them for the interest now?

 

Also, because my mother is a full time carer and on benefits, we didnt pay any court costs. Is it best that we just keep quiet and take what they have paid or should persue?

 

And just under 2 weeks for the court appearance as well... they have been quick

[lucid]

Hi,

 

If you haven't had to pay court costs then are you sure they're not just paying the interest and have possibly added a little more than it should be? I don't know how getting the court fees waived works but surely it would be on your claim form and so they'd know you didn't have to pay the costs? Just be careful and make sure you know exactly what they've paid before you chase them for more.

 

Good luck. Lucid

[fitsw6]

I have just spoke to SC&M (she was very abrupt lol) and they have told me they have paid the full amount with intersest (which is over what I worked it our to be - shhhhhh).

 

So this is now officially, another successful claim.

 

I shall write to the court today informing them of our victory... and letting them know that this case is one more case that has been settled BEFORE the court date.

 

Many, many thanks to everyone who has helped me on this. It has been very daunting at times but the encouragement and support has helped us through to the end!

 

Thank you all so much - donation on the way

 

 

Now to get back the charges incured since this claim started