Allowed Or Not

[Advoc8]

I'd play it cool.

 

See if you can find out why they did what they did - make notes of who you speak to and what they say - this is important!

 

Then tell them you want what they did reversing.

 

It may all just be a mistake that they'll undo and apologise. If they say they won't or can't reverse it then tell them you'll be submitting a complaint in writing and you're prepared to take court action if necessary because of what their errors will cost you.

 

There's no point going into what they're allowed and not allowed to do with whoever you speak to because they won't necessarily understand the legal side of it and will just try and fob you off.

 

If you get no satisfaction from your phone call it's time to put into writing - I'm happy to look at that with you if you'd like (ideally before you do this you need to have dug out the loan agreement).

[webbscatering]

Thanks

[Advoc8]

Any more news?

[webbscatering]

Advoc8 how you doing?, actually alot has happened and a higher source is prepared to take on the case and go straight for the jugular, unfortunately I cannot mention who that source is, but its going to hotten up a bit, hopefully some corporate butt will get kicked. Your input has been invaluable and i would like to say that this is what helped the higher source stop and take interest in the case.

[webbscatering]

Lloyds has not had the decency to return my calls after taking my money.

[Advoc8]

Advoc8 how you doing?, actually alot has happened and a higher source is prepared to take on the case and go straight for the jugular, unfortunately I cannot mention who that source is, but its going to hotten up a bit, hopefully some corporate butt will get kicked. Your input has been invaluable and i would like to say that this is what helped the higher source stop and take interest in the case.

 

Excellent, glad to be of some help.

 

Lloyds has not had the decency to return my calls after taking my money.

Why does that not surprise me?

 

Please do let me know how it all works out, I do hope you get a satisfactory resolution:)

[webbscatering]

Thanks my friend, im sure as we put it in the thread enough ammo to do them, well and truely.

[webbscatering]

Advocate, guess what the b*+?#¬$d have done they given me 30 day notice to shut the account down. If i never persued them for my money they were happy to have me now that they know i can claim my money back they're shutting me down. Who will take on my account with its present history.....no one!!!. They got me again. Im a loser

[Guest Zooman]

chin up, don't feel that way, look forward and get on the phone to all the other banks, someone will take you.

 

And on the bright side, it not just you, law offer business customers no protection, I've been in this boat with RBS after telling the manager what I thought of him.

[Guest Zooman]

sorry for this hijax, any other business customers reading this remember it is vital if you are still trading to have open with a different bank account in your business name, before you start any actions with your bank, users here will tell you to go for it etc but they on the hole do not realise that you do not have the protection as they do as consumers.

[webbscatering]

Thanks Zooman, I should have remembered the parachute account but in the sway of things you tend to overlook an important yet at the time insignificant factor like opening an another account.

[webbscatering]

Im feeling a bit niffed at the moment as they hit me with a double whammy, and humble pie is not something I like a lot of.

[smoorach]

just a thought for you here. i was slapped with a 30 day notice on my account, granted not a business one. i informed them that if they closed my account i would report them to the OFT for closing my account purely on the bassis of my re-claiming my charges. this was bank of scotland and they imediately backed down on this score as the OFT have said they will pursue any bank found to be closing accounts on a charges claim basis.

i just felt better the devil i knew and wanted to keep the account up and running as they now know i wont take charges lying down.

[webbscatering]

just a thought for you here. i was slapped with a 30 day notice on my account, granted not a business one. i informed them that if they closed my account i would report them to the OFT for closing my account purely on the bassis of my re-claiming my charges. this was bank of scotland and they imediately backed down on this score as the OFT have said they will pursue any bank found to be closing accounts on a charges claim basis.

i just felt better the devil i knew and wanted to keep the account up and running as they now know i wont take charges lying down.

 

Hi Mate, Thanks for that bit of info, can you be more precise as to whenm, where or what the OFT made that statement. Unfortunately because of the length of time left on my loan which would be up in August it would be futile chasing this as by the time it went before a judge the loan would have been paid, But the powers that be in CAG believe making a complaint to the Ombudsman will kick butt.

 

I need all the help i can get to draw up a kick ass letter, so any feedback is appreciated.

[webbscatering]

Excellent, glad to be of some help.

 

 

Why does that not surprise me?

 

Please do let me know how it all works out, I do hope you get a satisfactory resolution:)

 

Hi Advoc, bad news, looks like they beat me again.....so need your help with the letter we were orginally working on, talk to you soon, Kev

[Advoc8]

OK, think about what you want to say, outline the main points and something can be drafted.

[webbscatering]

OK, think about what you want to say, outline the main points and something can be drafted.

 

Hi Advoc, thanks for getting back. First there is the early redemption fee they owe me for settling the loan early, then the retalliation against me for getting my charges, someone posted that the OFT take a dim view over this! awaiting more info. Also the mentioning of the 1918 judgement declaring that the payment of the loan was against that ruling, i dont know if we can include the financial hardship this has put on me, If i think of more I'll get back to you soon, Cheers Kev

[webbscatering]

Sorry Adcoc the OFT take a dim view of banks shutting accounts for charge claiments, but i am awaiting confirmation

[GaryH]

There's a couple of letters here which I wrote for someone ages ago when they threatened to close her account -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/29826-help-enforcement-notice.html#post232568

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/29826-help-enforcement-notice-3.html#post356954

 

Believe it or not, Lloyds responded by acknowledging that no enforcement action should be taken on a disputed account, and they even apologised! I've got copies of the apology letters, if you think they'd be useful PM me your address or your e-mail address and I'll post/send them to you.

[webbscatering]

Thanks Garyh, well put together letter we should be able to use some of the legal quotations used in them, if you have anymore info please send on, Cheers Kev

[webbscatering]

Advoc, as I guessed the Ombudsman is not going to to be useful look at this:-

 

FAQs - complaints about bank charges

 

especially "Adjudication A". they have done everything that conforms with the charter so its out of the hands of the Ombudsman relatively speaking.

 

So the original argument goes back to the default on the account when it was not and the dates they gave for me to rectify the problem. Also they defaulted on the default letter.

[webbscatering]

There is no long term solution, like trying for damages or anything like that by the time it goes before a judge the loan would be paid off. So short term is make threats and get the loan reinstated and get back the money they took from me less any loan arrears, providing they have proof the account was ever going into default.

[webbscatering]

Advoc, where are you???, take a look at this for me, Cheers Kev

Dear Ms Cuthbert,

With respect to your letter dated 15th March 2007 Default Notice, it is stated the account was in arrears to the extent of £1335.50p, that you require payment of the arrears to be paid by 2nd April 2007. At no time was the arrears brought to my attention until this letter, unless you can provide written proof that I am in receipt of such correspondence. You did not give me sufficient time to reply to this letter in which time you illegally took the money from my account without notification and without prior agreement from me. You also have not provided sufficient evidence to back your claim that the account was in default with an account breakdown. Also to add insult to injury you are closing the account because I saw fit to challenge your regime of charges you took from my account and because of your guilt with the method in which you have treated me refused to return my calls.

 

I would draw your attention to the Financial Services Authority’s statement of the 6th July 2006, in which it announced that it considered such retaliatory action to be discriminatory and that it was referring the matter of such closures to the Banking Code’s standards committee. Following on from this, I also believe that the termination of my account agreement in the manner in which it has been proposed would constitute a breach of the terms of the Banking Code. I refer to;

 

Section 13 paragraph 6, which states that an account which is in dispute may not be passed to any credit reference agencies;

 

Section 7 paragraph 5, which states that unless there are exceptional circumstances, ie, threatening or abusive behaviour towards staff, an account will not be closed unless at least 30 days notice is given;

 

Section 14 paragraph 1 and 2, which states that any financial difficulties will be dealt with positively and sympathetically, and any action will be precluded by a period of discussion and the formation of a plan to help deal with those difficulties.

I understand you are asking for arrears of £1335.50 payable by 2nd April 2007. After speaking to one of your representatives on 16th March 20007, she informs me that my arrears are in fact 2 months which equates to £534. This I would have brought up to date by 2nd April 2007.

Your maybe aware is in total breach of the banking code and is a very series action taken on your part. I firmly suggest that you return the account back to its original state with the money back into my current account and the loan still in place. Your actions infringe a judgement made in a particular case with Bradford Old Bank Ltd v Sutcliffe [1918] 2 KB 833, a Court of Appeal decision.

Quote:

The sums paid into the current account are appropriated by the customer to that account, and cannot be used by the bank in discharge of the loan account without the consent of the customer. No customer could otherwise have any security in drawing a cheque on his current account if he had a loan account greater than his credit balance on current account.

Although this is an old case the decision has been applied to other cases in more recent years and still holds good.

The "Right to Offset" which I do believe you have done, only covers the loan arrears in which you have the rights to clear, but at no time does this give you the rights to take the whole loan amount.

 

So not only have you illegally removed money from my account, you have defaulted on your own letter to me and the account closure is in breach of the Banking Code of Practice. If you still believe you are correct in your actions please explain why.

 

Should you refuse again to reply to me I will take my case up with the Office of Fair Trading and The Financial Ombudsman

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Kevin Webb MBII

Owner

[webbscatering]

Advoc, where are you???, take a look at this for me, Cheers Kev

Dear Ms Cuthbert,

With respect to your letter dated 15th March 2007 Default Notice, it is stated the account was in arrears to the extent of £1335.50p, that you require payment of the arrears to be paid by 2nd April 2007. At no time was the arrears brought to my attention until this letter, unless you can provide written proof that I am in receipt of such correspondence. You did not give me sufficient time to reply to this letter in which time you illegally took the money from my account without notification and without prior agreement from me. You also have not provided sufficient evidence to back your claim that the account was in default with an account breakdown. Also to add insult to injury you are closing the account because I saw fit to challenge your regime of charges you took from my account and because of your guilt with the method in which you have treated me refused to return my calls.

 

I would draw your attention to the Financial Services Authority’s statement of the 6th July 2006, in which it announced that it considered such retaliatory action to be discriminatory and that it was referring the matter of such closures to the Banking Code’s standards committee. Following on from this, I also believe that the termination of my account agreement in the manner in which it has been proposed would constitute a breach of the terms of the Banking Code. I refer to;

 

Section 13 paragraph 6, which states that an account which is in dispute may not be passed to any credit reference agencies;

 

Section 7 paragraph 5, which states that unless there are exceptional circumstances, ie, threatening or abusive behaviour towards staff, an account will not be closed unless at least 30 days notice is given;

 

Section 14 paragraph 1 and 2, which states that any financial difficulties will be dealt with positively and sympathetically, and any action will be precluded by a period of discussion and the formation of a plan to help deal with those difficulties.

 

I understand you are asking for arrears of £1335.50 payable by 2nd April 2007. After speaking to one of your representatives on 16th March 20007, she informs me that my arrears are in fact 2 months which equates to £534. This I would have brought up to date by 2nd April 2007.

Your maybe aware is in total breach of the banking code and is a very series action taken on your part. I firmly suggest that you return the account back to its original state with the money back into my current account and the loan still in place. Your actions infringe a judgement made in a particular case with Bradford Old Bank Ltd v Sutcliffe [1918] 2 KB 833, a Court of Appeal decision.

Quote:

The sums paid into the current account are appropriated by the customer to that account, and cannot be used by the bank in discharge of the loan account without the consent of the customer. No customer could otherwise have any security in drawing a cheque on his current account if he had a loan account greater than his credit balance on current account.

Although this is an old case the decision has been applied to other cases in more recent years and still holds good.

 

The "Right to Offset" which I do believe you have done, only covers the loan arrears in which you have the rights to clear, but at no time does this give you the rights to take the whole loan amount.

 

So not only have you illegally removed money from my account, you have defaulted on your own letter to me and the account closure is in breach of the Banking Code of Practice. If you still believe you are correct in your actions please explain why.

 

Should you refuse again to reply to me I will take my case up with the Office of Fair Trading and The Financial Ombudsman

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Kevin Webb MBII

Owner

 

 

Do you think this could be a Police matter??

[webbscatering]

Hi Guys, where are you all, the third and final settlement letter has arrived which has the usual conditions applied. I want your advice on what move i should make in view of my current situation. Except with conditions or without?