Please help, Bailiffs problem URGENT

[michelefauk]

Hi

I hope someone can help me as I am at my wits end. I have a debt for council tax which I have been paying Chandlers Bailiffs £50 a month for a while, there is £137 left to pay, and I pay every month on 23rd. Tonight I have had a visit from a bailiff from Chandlers who turned up right in the middle of my son's birthday party. he said that I have defaulted on the Fabruary payment and they are now demanding full payment plus £120 immediately, £257!! I said I was unaware of a default, he said that the Feb payment was made on the 26th and not the 23rd. I explained that I get paid on the 23rd of every month, which in this case was a Saturday which means my money doesnt clear until the Monday, therefore the payment went through the following day. he was having none of it, said that even though it was paid, it was still a default and they will be back tomorrow morning to seize goods, with a locksmith if there is nobody in. I am supposed to be at work all day tomorrow. They have a walking agreement from before.

 

I am in a hell of a state, no idea what to do, can they do this?? Is it right to add £120 to the final amount? For what? I queried this with him and they said they can add on what they want for a default. I told him that it isnt a defualt, I paid it, I told him I have had no correspondence from Chandlers about this, he said they dont need to warn me, they can just turn up. I am here alone with my children, in an absolute state, this has ruined my sons birthday and I am terrified they are going to be back banging on the door at 6 am. Then what do I do? I could probably scrape together the £127 but no way another £120

 

Please can someone help me? I am so frightened

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[Thermometer]

I have sent you a PM

[Thermometer]

Can anyone else offer Michelefauk any advice?

[Guest Herbie]

I have sent a pm late last night.

[mrswonder]

Michelefauk, please ring the Council Tax & the complaints sections of your council first thing this morning. They can take the details over the 'phone, & though they sometimes need things in writing before they'll act, if you explain what has happened & that the bailiff said he's coming back this morning hopefully they'll be able to ring them to stop them. They've been paid, so you're up to date even though the payment didn't go through on the date it was due. Make sure you tell them that he said they don't need to warn you they're coming - I could be wrong, but I thought they had to give you at least 7 days notice in writing. If you haven't had any letters from them since making the February payment, then you haven't had that notice.

 

Do you have the bailiff's number? You should have been given it, either by the bailiff himself or his office - give any contact numbers you've got for them to the council so that they don't have to waste time looking them up.

 

Chandlers are a member of the Association of Civil Enforcement Agencies & are required to obey the National Standards for bailiffs (you can find them here). One of the criteria is that they must be careful in vulnerable situations - if you're a single parent, you're classed as a vulnerable person.

 

If you have a fax machine at home, type everything up including a history of what payments you've made (so they can see that you're not usually late paying, it was just because the 23rd fell on a weekend) & fax it to the council before the office opens. Send a copy of that fax to the bailiff's office - the fax number should be on any letters they've sent you.

 

Good luck.

[hagenuk]

Further to the advice above, from 1 April 1998, local authorities must send you a letter giving 14 days notice of a proposed bailiff visit to collect council tax and County Court bailiffs must issue a warning notice allowing 7 days for you to pay.

 

The fees that bailiffs can charge for recovering money vary, however there are fixed fees for bailiffs collecting council tax. Again from 1 April 1998 fees for the first visit by a bailiff are £20 and £15 for a second visit, where no levy or seizure is made.

 

In addition all bailiff fees (with the exception of magistrates' court bailiffs) can be looked at by the county court to see if they are reasonable or excessive. This is known as 'detailed assessment'. Please post a list of the fees you have been charged by this company and we can advise further.

 

You may also want to contact the council and ask that they take back control of your account and inform them that you will be making the payments directly to them in future.

 

In short, the bailiffs cannot arbitrarilyadd £120 to the bill and neither can they arrive the following day and break into your house.

[Thermometer]

Hagenuk,

 

Michelefauk has already had a visit from a bailiff and a walking possessiopn agreement was signed. There is no further need for the Council to contact michelefauk as the matter is now in the hands of the bailiffs.

 

Payment was in default (albeit it is now up to date) so, I understand, the bailiffs can seek to recover all the money now + reasonable costs. Legally correct - yes, morally correct - no!

[michelefauk]

Just firstly wanted to say thank you all so much for your help

 

Got nowhere with the council, they were not interested at all, just kept saying that it has gone to the bailiffs so they cant do anything.

 

Spoke to the bailiff again and basically begged him for another day or so to try and get this money together. No luck, he was rude and nasty, didnt listen to a word I said. Said that if it wasnt paid by noon today he would be back with his van and a locksmith. I told him I would be at work and that my teenage daughter would be home alone as she has no college today, again not interested. I asked him how he justified the £120 added fee, just kept saying that they can charge for a default and dont need to forewarn me as they have a walking agreement. he put the phone down me in the end.

 

Have somehow managed to scrape the money together (after having to phone work and tell them I would be late in) by using the rest of this months food money, my sons birthday money which I feel terrible about, smashed open my £2 coin jar which I was saving for my car tax and borrowed £50 off my nan., while feeling like the lowest of the low. Paid the nasty man, still in tears, I asked him for a breakdown of their "fees" and he just laughed and told me to ring head office. I then had to go and do a days work, still very upset and after having no sleep from worrying about this.

 

I appreciate that I was acouple of days late paying this, but have been paying it for months and never been late before, have almost cleared this account until today

[mrswonder]

Sorry to hear things went so badly for you. I would still report the matter to the council in writing - send it to the council tax complaints dept, as they can't just brush it off. I would also report it to the associations that Chandlers are a member of. You are classed as a vulnerable debtor, & as the money had been paid (albeit a couple of days late) what the bailiff did seems very unfair to me, even if he does have the law on his side.

[Guest Herbie]

Please be assured. there is no provision in any regaultions for default charges. I did leave a pm for you last evening, so please do not hesitate to call.

[KJD]

I wanted to add my support. I haven't been in your situation so can't imagine the nightmare you are going through, but hopefully some resolution can be found through this site - it's full of knowledgeable and experienced people. When you get a chance to catch your breath, it might be an idea to write down as much as you can remember, word for word, what has been said between the bailiff and yourself right from the start up till now. It might come in useful for reporting this matter to TS, CAB or someone. And will be better than trying to remember it several months from now.

 

Lastly, I send all my best wishes to you. Give your son a hug - he's the most precious thing and the b*****s can't take that away!

 

 

KJD xxx

[Thermometer]

Please be assured. there is no provision in any regaultions for default charges. I did leave a pm for you last evening, so please do not hesitate to call.

 

As Michelefauk was in default the bailiffs have the right to attend with a van to collect goods. There is no 'default fee' but there are 'van fees' - I think that is what the fees would have been for! I think the van fees would have been payable even if no goods were collected - but a van fee can only be charged once (for Council Tax matters anyway) - no matter how many visits are made to collect goods.

[jadzia]

Hi,

Chandlers are total swines,if you look up my name you will find my dealings with them on a thread entitled 'chandlers bailiffs',can i ask which local authority area you are in?,we managed to get the council to make a chandlers bailiff back down after alot of shouting by my brother in law on our behalf,but only after the arrogant pig conned me into paying his £180 visit fees!!(which have since been refunded,albeit onto the arrears account,but still,they gave them back),i know its not much use now,but keep on to the council and try to get your fees back,because our council admitted that chandlers should never have called on us again as our account was up to date,whether or not the payments were made on time(which they were,in advance!!)

[michelefauk]

Hi

It is Swindon Borough Council.

 

I have gone from being upset and frightened to furious about this. I understand now that the £120 was a van fee but at no time did the bailiff mention this, he said it was "for defaulting, and we can charge what we like, there are no government guidelines" I have asked Chandlers for a breakdown of these costs, bet they put it down as Van fee, then it is just my word against his as to what he called it. Either way, I am determined to take this further as it is disgusting that these people can threaten and frighten you into such a state you will pay anything to get rid of them

[hagenuk]

You may use the DPA SAR letter in the library and get a full copies of all letters, details of accounts, payments made, visits etc from Chandlers. I would do this without delay.

 

Once you have this, you will be in a much better position to challenge their charges.

[Guest Zooman]

To the Manager Council Tax Recovery

Dear Sir/Madam,

re: Council Tax Account Number xxxxx

 

 

I am writing to make a formal complaint over the actions of your bailiff enforcement operated by Chandler’s bailiffs on your behalf and the failure of the council to ensure that they are collecting arrears lawfully and taking into consideration the councils duty of care to it residents.

 

 

If you are not responsible for dealing with formal complaints to the Council please forward this letter to the person and/or the department responsible for formal complaints and write to me by return informing me who is dealing with this matter.

 

 

In xxx my file was sent to Chandler’s bailiffs to collect outstanding by you.

 

 

I have now paid this money in full, plus bailiff fees.

 

 

I have concerns over the fees I have been charged by your bailiffs.

 

 

On an amount of £xxx I have been charged £xx. I was concerned that these fees are greatly elevated over what is allowed to be collected and have taken advise, I now understand that the fees that the council can charge via its bailiffs are set down in statue and are not open to interpretation.

 

 

I have requested an itemised breakdown of these fees from your bailiff and your bailiff has refused to give them saying I am not entitled to them. With out such a breakdown I am frankly at a loss how I can judge if these fees where lawful or not. I am inclined to suspect that something is a miss since your bailiff is unwilling to furnish me with this request.

 

As such I make this formal complaint against xxx Council as the bailiffs are acting as your employees and you have responsibility for their actions when acting on your behalf.

 

 

To resolve this matter I expect the itemised breakdown no later then 7 days time, and for the council to remind your bailiff firm that they have an obligation to supply this information on request and that every bailiff working within the borough is aware of this. If you are unable to do this please detail why your duty of care to the residents of this borough does not extend to your agents collecting council tax arrears.

 

 

If I receive no reply or the reply I receive is not satisfactory to this formal complaint I will escalate the matter though the Council and in the event that it is not resolved within 12 weeks of the date of this letter I will take the matter to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

 

Also beware that if it turns out your bailiff has acted unlawfully, and the Council do not take immediate steps to ensure that this does not happen again to others I will be taking this matter to the Local Government Ombudsman as a matter of urgency as I consider that it constitutes the entire administrative system surrounding Council Tax Recovery via bailiffs has broken down and you are no longer fulfilling your duty of care to the residents of the borough, and is in fact by inaction condoning unlawful behaviour in your name.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

xxxxx

I would try this way, it is more trouble for the bailiff firm to make complaints about they agents then to the agent them self as they can brush the matter under the carpet.

[Guest Zooman]

If you do send that I will be with you every step of the way, this sort of complaint can help stop anyone else in your town being put though the same as you, but if you take the route of inaction or a complaint to the bailiff firm nothing will change for others although I suspect you will get your money back.

[Guest Herbie]

Excellent letter as usual by Zooman.

 

Due to the extremely competitve nature of bailiffs and their contracts with local authorities, I always advice that any complaint to the bailiff must be copied to the local authority. Good bailiff companies do not like to have complaints to their councils....the bad ones couldn't care less...

[michelefauk]

Thank you for that letter, will get it typed up tonight and off tomorrow record delivery, with a copy to the council.

 

Many thanks for taking an interest everyone, I am really amazed as to how generous everyone is on this site with their time and advice, it is so much appreciated

Mixhele

[Guest Zooman]

that letter I posted is to the council, I would not even send the bailiff a copy, it is the council that you have a contract with not a bailiff firm.

[Guest Zooman]

in all hosteny we should as a site try to avoid any contact with the bailiff firm once the debt is paid, LCA have a duty of care to us in law the bailiff firms have no such thing. LCA also have to collect and submit information on all formal complaints and make a yearly report on them and there nature, the more we complain to LCA the less likely hood that those same LCAs will allow the bailiffs to get away with it, they have to know what they are up to but as they tend to not get complained about they brush it under the carpet and look the other way saying to them selves the ends justify the means.

[Thermometer]

that letter I posted is to the council, I would not even send the bailiff a copy, it is the council that you have a contract with not a bailiff firm.

 

Actually, a Walking Possession Agreement is a sort of 'contract' between a bailliff and a debtor.

[Guest Zooman]

not now it paid, and that does not change the 'Duty of Care' issue.