I owe around £500 to my local council in council tax arrears - balliffs conduct

[streetgang]

Hi everyone,

 

I owe around £500 to my local council in council tax arrears, they have got the bailiffs in and during the last few months I have continued to pay the money directly to the council.

The bailiffs are now contacting me to ask for full payment (which i cant afford) and threatening to "call to remove goods from you (sic) home for sale at public auction to clear your arrears".

They have called a couple of times, and rather than telephone the mobile number of the bailiff, i have contacted him in writing at the bailiff firm.

Subsequent to that letter, he arrived at my door at 5:50am this morning and stuck another "formal notice" through tht door stating i have failed to respond to the previous letters.

 

This of course is untrue, as I have contacted him in writing (i thought it better to write as it keeps a written record).

 

Can you clarify, are bailiffs allowed to call at 550am ?? and are they allowed to threaten to call to remove goods when they havent been into the house and I havent signed anything for them to remove goods.

 

If I continue to make payments, and keep them informed, am I still at risk of these people continuing to call early in the morning (and causing distress to my wife!)

 

Hope someone can clarify.

Thanks

Harry.

[streetgang]

Hi, can anyone help me on this one ?

Thanks

Harry

[paulson1985]

Morning Harry,

 

If the bailliff has never been in your home, there is not a lot he can do.

Never allow him entry.

 

If you feel you need to speak to him go outside and see him closing the door behind you. He needs to gain peacfull entry ie you allowing him in.

 

I am not sure about the times he is allowed to call, no doubt somebody will come along later and advice you better.

 

Good Luck

[Guest Herbie]

This is again utter nonsense.I am pushed for time right now, but will post a full reply later.

 

For coming to your home at that hour of the day, he can only charge what is called a First Visit fee of £22.50, if he visits a second time he can charge £16.50. Thats it....no more visit fees can be charged.

 

Statute law requires that he must first have been into your property ....identified goods to seize.....listed them on a Walking Possesion.....and there must be your signature.

 

Between the two of you, you would have to agree when payment must be made by. The bailiif does not have to agree a long period of time, it all depends on what the two of you can agree. If you default, then he can return to remove the goods that he has previously "levied" upon.

 

Regarding van fees. He can only charge one attendance with a vehicle with a view to recover goods AFTER A LEVY has been made.

 

Every bailiff in the country knows the rules on this.....he hopes that you don't..... More later....

[sequenci]

great post above..

 

more info here:

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 02 Bailiffs And Council Tax

[PizzaMaker]

Council tax, oh dear.

 

The reasonable times to knock on peoples door is between 6am and 9pm.

 

As stated about, there is a first visit of £22.50 and 2nd visit of £16.50. If you are worried, speak to them through an upstairs window (unless you live in a block of flats). Speak to them through the door. Just do not open it. If you do open and they enter peacefully, they will then list your good, apply of levy fee and then a walking possession fee of £11.

 

If you do not stick to your agreedment, they can charge up to 3 VAN fees, depending on the council.

[sequenci]

 

If you do not stick to your agreedment, they can charge up to 3 VAN fees, depending on the council.

 

are you sure that is correct? i was under the impression that under the regs only ONE Van fee could be charged.

[Guest Herbie]

This is about Council Tax.

 

As I said earlier, they can only charge £22.50 for a first attendance to levy where a levy does not take place OR they can charge a levy fee in line with the scale of fees if they DO levy ( they of course need to come into the house and identify items etc). They are not allowed to charge both fees.

 

If it was necessary for the bailiff to return a second time, maybe because you were not at home etc, then they are able to charge a second attendance to levy fee etc in exactly the same way as above, but this second visit fee can only be for £16.50

 

Regarding a fee for attending to remove....this can ONLY be charged if a levy has already taken place....ie: they must have previously been to the property.....identified items.....signed a walking possession etc.

 

For attending with a vehicle......the Statutory Regulations state as follows:

 

"For ONE attendance with a vehicle with a view to the removal of goods ( where, following a levy, goods are not removed). This fee can only be charge ONCE.

 

The bailiff CANNOT charge for three van fees when collecting Council Tax.

 

If a bailiff has said that he will be attending with a van.....and a locksmith etc, to remove goods to sell at auction....remember that he cannot remove any goods unless......he has first been into your home...levied upon goods....signed a walking possession etc.

 

I know this is confusing, but hope that it may be a little clearer.

 

 

With regards to Council Tax, they can only charge a levy fee if a levy has actually taken place.

[PizzaMaker]

are you sure that is correct? i was under the impression that under the regs only ONE Van fee could be charged.

 

Apologies, after a levy, they can make 3 additional charges, one an ATR, a van fee plus another. Not 3 van fees.

[Janet-M]

if there is a disagreement on any advice given it may be better if the source of your information is given and also a non commercial link to it given .That can quickly clear up any misunderstandings

[Bailiffchaser]

Trust me the easiest way is that if you think that you have paid through your nose issue a small claim against the company concerned. soon it will clear as water what they have overcharged on as they do not want to face a district judge to explain their story !!!!!!

[tiglet]

OK, I think you need to make your local council aware of the situation. Write a letter to the directors of the bailiff company stating your concerns and asking for a full breakdown of fess applied. Phone the council tax collections department and find out the relevant manager to copy in. Copy them into the letter and state you are willing to keep paying while this matter is being sorted out (so they can't claim this is a stalling tactic) but you do need this issue resolving asap.

 

Send these letters recorded delivery and then follow up with a call to your council to see what is happening. the council has a duty of care to ensure the bailiffs act in the correct manner. if this doesn't get you anywhere, you can also complain to the local government ombudsman and to the court which issued the judgement.

 

If this post has helped, please tip my scales.

[Bailiffchaser]

If you are on benefits then ie income support etc then as the council has a liability order you can ask them to deduct from your benefit. You must send them proof of benefit etc for this to happen. Even better would be shooting down to the office in the morning and speaking to them face to face.

[streetgang]

Thank you everyone for your posts, very very helpful.

I have arranged a meeting with the bailiff, if I am correct what you are saying is:

(a) dont let them in

(b) agree a payment plan from outside our property

© stick to the payments

 

I paid a further £140 towards the debt last week, does that mean I can stall making a further payment until the same time next month ??

I am happy to finish this by 3 further payments but cant make another payment this month you see !

Thanks again everyone.

Harry.

[tiglet]

If you are prepared to pay taht each month, state quite clearly that this is this month's payment.

 

I really would strongly advise you to write to the directots of the company and the council tax office - you'll be covering your back on all fronts then.

[mrswonder]

It is possible to take the bailiffs on & win, but you do have to stand your ground & make sure you confirm everything you say or have been told in writing, both to the bailiffs & to the council.

 

A few months ago I wanted to get confirmation of how much was owed because the bailiffs in question never sent receipts for payments received on my account. I therefore didn't know whether the council were getting all the money I paid or whether a lot of it was being lost in bailiff charges. The bailiff wouldn't respond to messages left on his mobile & it was impossible to get the information from the office. I made sure I faxed confirmation of every conversation to the bailiff office as well as to the council the same day it took place. I made it very clear that I was trying to pay but they were making it very difficult for me to do so, & that I would therefore pay the council direct irrespective of any instruction the council may have given to the bailiff until I got the information I was legally entitled to. I made a point of paying each month via the council's online facility to ensure I got a receipt immediately for the payment.

 

The upshot was that I finally managed to get hold of the bailiff, who quoted an outstanding amount far in excess of what my records showed. I faxed my records to the council, & complained about the lack of receipts & the discrepancy in the amount quoted to me. I also made a few other pertinent points & not only did I get the bailiff taken off the case, I got the £95 court fee credited to my Council Tax account as well.

 

If your council has an online payment service, I advise you to use that in order to get receipts until the payment plan is agreed. Make sure the council knows what discussions you are having with the bailiff - keep them up-to-date on everything, because not only will that ensure they know what's going on, they also can't later deny that they were aware of the situation. Send them details of all payments made so far, give them full details of what the bailiff has done/said/charged so far, and make sure they know you want to pay but the bailiff's behaviour is making it difficult for you to do so.

[Guest Herbie]

You must remember that the bailiff is merely acting as agents for the local authority, therefore it is vital that any complaint that you may have, must be sent to the bailiff company AND COPIED to the local authority.

 

Due to the highly competitive business that they are in, the bailiff company would not want complaints about overcharging or conduct going back to the client.

[Spandavia]

Council tax, oh dear.

 

The reasonable times to knock on peoples door is between 6am and 9pm.

 

Are you 100% sure that these are the times bailiffs are allowed to visit? I ask for a specific reason.

Many thanks

Spandavia

[streetgang]

Thanks again everyone, I wrote to the director of the company copy to the council tax director at the council and his customer service counterpart. Stating my payment plan and outlining the payments made to the bill so far together with the costs the bailiff has added to the count.

 

I note that the last "outstanding amount" the bailiff quoted to me included £16.50 for the 2nd visit and added cryptically "+ costs". Am I right in saying that there can be no extra costs until he comes with a van to remove goods ? and that he cant do that until he has been inside the property and levied the goods ?

I do not intend to be in a position whereby he has to come and remove property so hopefully there will be no further charges.

 

Can someone be clear, I do not need to let the bailiff in when we meet if I have a payment plan that he agrees to ? I would think he will say that he needs to levy the goods as an insurance incase I dont keep up the repayments ? (i understand there is a fee that can be applied for a walking possession order ? - again i dont want to give the bailiff anymore than I legally have to) !

 

Thanks again

Harry.

[Thermometer]

streetgang,

 

If the bailiff has not entered your property before to levy for this debt you do not have to let him in at all! It i irrelevant whether there is an agreement to pay the arrears or not!

 

So, you have to keep your doors and windows locked at all times!

 

I think if you have a car parked outside he can levy that though, so you may want to keep your car locked in a garage!

[streetgang]

Thanks Thermometer, useful advice, does that not mean that bailiffs have no powers then ?

I attend to keep up with the payments, but what you are saying is that the bailiff doesnt have any right of entry.....therefore how can they hope to collect a debt if the debtor wont let them in AND also continues not to pay ? just a question really, it sort of indicates to me that they dont have any power other than getting entry to the property and levying that way, do you have any legal links you can send me with confirmation of this ?

Thanks

Harry

[tiglet]

This is actually right - unless you let them gain peacefl entry or they have a warrant, they cannot enter your property and although you may not feel like it, this leaves you in control.

 

Have a look at this: National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 02 Bailiffs And Council Tax

[Thermometer]

Thee is a bill going through parliament now which proposes to extend the rights of bailiffs getting entry to your home. I am not aware of the contents of the bill but I guess the bill intends to give them a right of entry even if they have not entered before!

[Thermometer]

Here is the guidance published by the National Help Debtline:

 

DO I HAVE TO LET THE BAILIFFS IN?

 

REMEMBER

If the bailiffs have not been into your home before to collect this debt, they have no right to come in. They cannot break in. You can choose not to let them in.

• Don't open the door to them as they may try to push past you. If they get inside, they may have the right to enter again and may break in to take your goods.
  
• Don't leave windows open or doors unlocked - bailiffs can legally get through these.

INFORMATION

Bailiffs cannot get the police to help them break in.

WARNING

Some bailiffs may leave you a phone number, and arrange to come round to 'have a chat'. Don't let them in, even if they say it's only to use the toilet or make a phone call.

• Bailiffs may try to break into sheds, garages, greenhouses etc. even though this is illegal. Keep valuables safe. They may be able to take cars, motorbikes and other vehicles parked near your home.
  
• Politely but firmly refuse to let the bailiffs in. Offer what you can afford to pay. If the bailiffs accept your offer, ask them to return to their car and go out and pay them. Make sure you get a receipt.

WARNING

Don't sign anything. If the bailiff leaves papers for you to sign and return, you do not have to do this. You don't have to sign agreements posted through your door either. Phone us for advice.

Phone us for advice 0808 808 4000

[mrswonder]

Thee is a bill going through parliament now which proposes to extend the rights of bailiffs getting entry to your home. I am not aware of the contents of the bill but I guess the bill intends to give them a right of entry even if they have not entered before!

The bill is here - it's available in pdf or html format. At 307 pages, it's a very big document, but it's worth having a copy of it. From what I can make out so far, not only will it allow the bailiff a right of entry whether they've entered before or not, it will also allow them to seize goods in the property unless you can either prove they aren't yours or have the money to pay. It also allows them to enter your home if it's the last address they have on file for the debtor, even if you tell them they don't live there.

 

I'm still working my way through it though, so please feel free to correct me on this if you've got further than I have with it.