do you have to pay parking tickets from private companies

[green_and_mean]

Unfortunately the permits are not fixed and often slide off the dashboard, in the same way that non-sticky pay and display tickets do. However, I do park my car in the same space every day, it is very recognisable and it is always the same person who patrols the car park, so he is well aware that my car is entitled to be there. Since ticketing started, I have received over 50 tickets. If I leave my car without a permit and don't use it for a few days, I can come back and find 7 or 8 tickets on the windscreen. It's just ridiculous!

 

Legality of the tickets left aside for a moment surely after 50 tickets common sense would tell you to ensure the permit was displayed to avoid all the inconvenience, how hard can it be to stick a piece of paper to the screen I'm sure your tax disc is always displayed?

[Rob S]

Legality of the tickets left aside for a moment surely after 50 tickets common sense would tell you to ensure the permit was displayed to avoid all the inconvenience, how hard can it be to stick a piece of paper to the screen I'm sure your tax disc is always displayed?

 

For someone who has paid £15000 for 2 parking spaces, why on earth should he have to display a permit in the first place? In this day and age, the parking company should be able to set up a database which lists the vehicles that are able to park in each parking bay.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

For someone who has paid £15000 for 2 parking spaces, why on earth should he have to display a permit in the first place? In this day and age, the parking company should be able to set up a database which lists the vehicles that are able to park in each parking bay.

 

It's worse than that - £15,000 each £30,000 total.

[patdavies]

Perky, I take great offence at this. Just what exactly do you have against monkeys...?

 

For those of you being persecuted by these charlatan companies, I just thought I'd give you my experience. I live in E16, just beside Canary Wharf and paid £15,000 each for two parking spaces in my development, as there is a double red line on the private road outside my flat. Two years ago the concierge decided that they would invite a parking company in to patrol the car park and ticket any cars not displaying a permit. Unfortunately the permits are not fixed and often slide off the dashboard, in the same way that non-sticky pay and display tickets do. However, I do park my car in the same space every day, it is very recognisable and it is always the same person who patrols the car park, so he is well aware that my car is entitled to be there. Since ticketing started, I have received over 50 tickets.

 

If you have paid for these spaces, are they are therefore your property, why the hell does anybody else trhink that they can 'police' them.

[Guest perky88]

If you have paid for these spaces, are they are therefore your property, why the hell does anybody else trhink that they can 'police' them.

Maybe he has purchased the spaces, but they are on leasehold and the conditions for the leaseholder state if xx% want to employ a parking company then everyone has to abide by the rules !!!

[whiteskoda]

Hi, I have read lots of mail regarding the crooks who extort money from people who fall foul of there 'rules'.

I was unfortunate to receive an 'official looking ticket from Euro Parks demanding £70 . or else !

Having read comments on this site I ignored the ticket.

2 months later I received a letter from them, presumably they obtained my personal details from DVLA .

Firstly I am fuming that DVLA can sell my details to anyone other than the Police.

So what about MY rights and Data Protection Act?

As having read the Data Protection clause it states something like they can only divulge my details if I have broken the Law.

Which I clearly have not!

 

My question is:

Should I return the letter as not known this address ?

After all who says DVLA details are correct !

Or should I admit to being the registered keeper of the vehicle.

Appreciate any advice ............

Wills..

[Sidewinder]

Hi, I have read lots of mail regarding the crooks who extort money from people who fall foul of there 'rules'.

I was unfortunate to receive an 'official looking ticket from Euro Parks demanding £70 . or else !

Having read comments on this site I ignored the ticket.

2 months later I received a letter from them, presumably they obtained my personal details from DVLA .

Firstly I am fuming that DVLA can sell my details to anyone other than the Police.

So what about MY rights and Data Protection Act?

As having read the Data Protection clause it states something like they can only divulge my details if I have broken the Law.

Which I clearly have not!

 

My question is:

Should I return the letter as not known this address ?

After all who says DVLA details are correct !

Or should I admit to being the registered keeper of the vehicle.

Appreciate any advice ............

Wills..

 

By all means admit to being the RK of the vehicle for this matters not one bit as to the legality or liability for payment. In admitting to being the RK, your next line should be that the PPC should take the matter up with the person driving at the time. Responsibility for payment (IF there was adequate signage, and IF a contract was formed agreeing to pay the amount being claimed) rests with the driver, which is not neccessarily the same person as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

 

Regarding DVLA releasing details, sadly there is not much that you can do. DVLA code of practice allows them to release details to those with a 'reasonable cause' to ask for them, and unbelievably DVLA believes that an unsolicited invoice from a PPC is just reason to part with YOUR information. The fact that they collect £2.50 for each request is, naturally, only there to cover costs, not to make a profit

 

Many people are now asking their MP to question the legality of DVLA selling data, but the stock answer when questioned is that their C of P allows them to do so and that unauthorised parking on private land is a massive problem which requires the landowner or agent to have some form of redress in order to chase drivers. When asked how the RK can possibly be held liable for a contract which may or may not have been formed by the driver, they did not see why the RK naming the driver to the PPC would be any big deal

[Filthy Monkey]

Legality of the tickets left aside for a moment surely after 50 tickets common sense would tell you to ensure the permit was displayed to avoid all the inconvenience, how hard can it be to stick a piece of paper to the screen I'm sure your tax disc is always displayed?

 

Common sense? Why should I even bother remembering...?

 

If I came round to your house every night and told you that you had to give me £100 pounds unless you bent over and kissed your own ass, would you do it or would you just stop answering the door to me? My demand would have about as much basis in law as a private parking ticket.

[adamna]

But what would you do if someone else was parked in your space?

[Filthy Monkey]

Assume they had made a mistake and leave a polite note on their windscreen.

 

Obviously if they parked there a second time, though, I'd slash their tyres and pour paint stripper over their car!!!

[adamna]

Now I understand your username.

[whiteskoda]

Thanks for the advice.

I do feel very strongly about this, especially the involvement of DVLA.

I firmly believe that DVLA have misused their powers.

I feel that in passing on my private details to a third party of unknown integrity they have infringed my rights and surely must be in breach of the Data Protection Act.

We are forced by them to give them all our details under threat of fines,even if we move home and do not inform them,they will impose a hefty fine..

These details were surely only intended to be used by the Police If we had broken a Law or they had reason to believe the vehicle was stolen or invlved in a crime or avoiding Excise Tax.

NOT to be sold off for a profit to any wheel clamper (we know what they are capable of )! or any other crooks with a Letterhead who pose a ligitmate Car Park extortionists.

They themselves had the gall to quote the Data Protection act to my partner as an excuse for not giving her information about her own vehicle.

If criminals in Jail can sue for breach of their Humane rights surely it is time we law abiding citizens who are unfortunate to fall foul of these Car Park extortionists stand up for OUR rights to stop DVLA from betraying the information we entrust to them and breaching OUR Human Rights !

DVLA are taking the **** out of all motorists.

They even make a profit from use by making us use an 0870 number to phone them for hours trying to sort out their mess when the screw up our details !

Now they are selling our personal details to any crook who can log in and pay £2.50 to download our details !

It is time we put a stop to DVLA abusing their powers !

We should all be lobbying our MPs and bringing this practice out into the public domain ,as I am sure most peole have no idea that THEIR details can be sold off. and used for ? IDENTITY THEFT even !!

ANY Thoughts from anyone ???

 

 

By all means admit to being the RK of the vehicle for this matters not one bit as to the legality or liability for payment. In admitting to being the RK, your next line should be that the PPC should take the matter up with the person driving at the time. Responsibility for payment (IF there was adequate signage, and IF a contract was formed agreeing to pay the amount being claimed) rests with the driver, which is not neccessarily the same person as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

 

Regarding DVLA releasing details, sadly there is not much that you can do. DVLA code of practice allows them to release details to those with a 'reasonable cause' to ask for them, and unbelievably DVLA believes that an unsolicited invoice from a PPC is just reason to part with YOUR information. The fact that they collect £2.50 for each request is, naturally, only their to cover costs, not to make a profit

 

Many people are now asking their MP to question the legality of DVLA selling data, but the stock answer when questioned is that their C of P allows them to do so and that unauthorised parking on private land is a massive problem which requires the landowner or agent to have some form of redress in order to chase drivers. When asked how the RK can possibly be held liable for a contract which may or may not have been formed by the driver, they did not see why the RK naming the driver to the PPC would be any big deal

[Barnsley Boy]

I'm reluctant to join in the clammer for the DVLA route to be shut down - the reason being that as a result, car clamping would rise exponentially. The arguement would go that parking on private land would become a free for all and the government would introduce legislation. When has legislation concerning the motorist ever suited us. We are viewed as a cash cow to be milked at every opportunity. As a half way house, I do wish that the Police would take more interest in the apparent fraud and harrassment that goes on in the routine day to day business of some PPCs and tame DCAs.

 

Let us face it, a ticket from a PPC is mildly annoying but, like being savaged by a dead sheep, it is easy to defend against. You've still got your money, the PPC wants it but there is no way they are going to get it.

[adamna]

But what about all the people that don't know that? I'm sure they can afford to wave goodbye to the few that are informed after a visit here. Most people have no idea that they don't have to pay.

[Barnsley Boy]

But what about all the people that don't know that? I'm sure they can afford to wave goodbye to the few that are informed after a visit here. Most people have no idea that they don't have to pay.

 

I take your point and do try to spread the word far and wide, not just in cyberspace. I still think that if the [problem] parking fines dry up then the there willl be alot more clamping.

 

It is a case of "careful what you wish for - it may come true"

[Zamzara]

My compromise solution would be this:-

 

DVLA data access would be allowed for landowners only. They would be entitled to charge around £20 per day nominal damages to the owner* of a trespassing vehicle as an out of court settlement. Trespassing vehicle means meeting the legal definition of trespass, NOT permit 'slipped out of window' etc. They would of course retain the right to remove the vehicle using reasonable force (but not to charge more than actual losses for doing so.)

 

This way landowners have some protection, motorists cannot be fleeced, and no one has to rely on problem parking continuing to pay their staff's wages, which is the current insoluble paradox with PPCs.

 

Clamping should be completely banned as it is contradictory to almost all other consumer laws, and cannot be justified as it merely continues the trespass.

 

*I also wouldn't object to the owner being made responsible for trespass of their vehicle if they are not already.

[patdavies]

 

DVLA data access would be allowed for landowners only.

 

To be equitable, this would need to include commercial tenants and management companies.

 

They would be entitled to charge around £20 per day nominal damages to the owner* of a trespassing vehicle as an out of court settlement.

 

*I also wouldn't object to the owner being made responsible for trespass of their vehicle if they are not already.

 

Owner or keeper? DVLA only hold details of the registered keeper - the owner is unknown to them.

[whiteskoda]

I'm reluctant to join in the clammer for the DVLA route to be shut down - the reason being that as a result, car clamping would rise exponentially. The arguement would go that parking on private land would become a free for all and the government would introduce legislation. When has legislation concerning the motorist ever suited us. We are viewed as a cash cow to be milked at every opportunity. As a half way house, I do wish that the Police would take more interest in the apparent fraud and harrassment that goes on in the routine day to day business of some PPCs and tame DCAs.

 

Let us face it, a ticket from a PPC is mildly annoying but, like being savaged by a dead sheep, it is easy to defend against. You've still got your money, the PPC wants it but there is no way they are going to get it.

 

 

 

Sorry, but I do not follow your reasoning.

Just how would refusing DVLA permission to sell our details to people like Euro Park increase clamping.

They are doing all they can at the moment to extact as much money from us as the can within the confines of the existing laws.

Allowing them to 'follow us home' curtesy of DVLA,only empowers them!

I regard this as an invasion of privacy , mine !

 

I parked in a retail park car park which invites shoppers to park there to use the shops,this car park was previously always free.

It was only when I returned to my car and discovered the 'ticket' that I looked around and found a sign which informed me that I was now only allowed 1 hour parking.

To invadvertantly overstay that time by 15 mins, I received a demand for £70.

Which has no relation to any loss incurred by the retail park by my presence in their shops.

In refusing to pay this 'fine', I am now threatened with a further £25 and a debt collection company .

For someone who has never received any form of parking fine this threat is worrying.

If DVLA had not sold these people my details they would not have been able to send these threats through the post.

If the retail park wished to generate revenue they could adopt realistic nominal parking charge, rather than allow these bullies to intimidate customers and demand money with menaces.

As a result I shall never ever use that retail park again.

 

Also I dread to think what effect receiving this type of threats and intimidation through the post might have on the health of elderly people who might inadvertantly fall foul of these bullies.

[Barnsley Boy]

The supermarkets, retail parks, pubs, shops etc do want some control over their car parks. They also would prefer not to pay for it. The PPCs offer a "quick & dirty" solution, no cost to the main business. If the income from issuing tickets dries up then the retailers will either have to dig into their pockets [unlikely] or give increased permissions to the PPCs [more clamping]

 

I'm not condoning this ticketing [or clamping] in any way, I hope you can see that I'm fighting it at every opportunity. What I am is cynical about any government "initiative", they tend to not go well for us. Remember clamping - all the government did was effectively legitimise the industry. Any tattoed moron can get a SIA license after a few days course.

[Filthy Monkey]

Completely understand where you're coming from, Barnsley Boy. There really is no 'one size fits all' solution to this. For now, I'm quite happy to keep receiving letters from Central Ticketing. Based on the amount of mail I have received from them over the past couple of years, they have spent about £150 on postage, not to mention stationary and staff costs. I have called them a few times and told them not to waste my time and their money, but they persist in sending more letters, so it's their loss

[WebFerret]

Thanks for the advice.

I do feel very strongly about this, especially the involvement of DVLA.

I firmly believe that DVLA have misused their powers.

I feel that in passing on my private details to a third party of unknown integrity they have infringed my rights and surely must be in breach of the Data Protection Act.

These details were surely only intended to be used by the Police If we had broken a Law or they had reason to believe the vehicle was stolen or invlved in a crime or avoiding Excise Tax.

 

NOT to be sold off for a profit to any wheel clamper (we know what they are capable of )! or any other crooks with a Letterhead who pose a ligitmate Car Park extortionists.

They themselves had the gall to quote the Data Protection act to my partner as an excuse for not giving her information about her own vehicle.

 

 

DVLA are taking the **** out of all motorists.

They even make a profit from use by making us use an 0870 number to phone them for hours trying to sort out their mess when the screw up our details !

Now they are selling our personal details to any crook who can log in and pay £2.50 to download our details !

It is time we put a stop to DVLA abusing their powers !

We should all be lobbying our MPs and bringing this practice out into the public domain ,as I am sure most peole have no idea that THEIR details can be sold off. and used for ? IDENTITY THEFT even !!

 

ANY Thoughts from anyone ???

 

 

 

 

I absolutly agree - this information should NOT be made 'public' by the DVLA (to simply anyone with 'reasonable cause'!).

 

My very grave concern is that for anyone who has actually paid one of these (reputation questionable) 'companies' by credit or debit card has then supplied all that is needed for ID theft and the clearing out of their bank accounts!

 

And the DVLA has been instrimental in aiding and abetting this activity!

 

It would be interesting to know if anyone on this forum, who has paid, has subsiquently fallen victim of ID theft?

[emsgeorge]

One of the main reasons for ticketing rather than clamping is that there is no requirement for a SIA license.

 

Thus:

No requirement for attending a C&G accredited course, and paying about £250 for it.

No requirement to apply for a SIA licence, and the cost of £245 per year.

No requirement for criminal record checks

 

Also means you dont even have to employ wardens, all you do is sell 'kits' to landowners. You can even afford to give these kits away, because they cost less than one paid ticket.

 

You dont have to run a van / car and all its associated costs. All you have to do, is be a BPA member, have a PO box for all the payments to come flooding in. You dont even need a business bank account any more to accept card payments, just use paypal !.

 

Even if you do employ 'wardens' (thinking euro car parks here), then all it takes is about 10 mins 'on the job' training, on how to write a ticket. One yellow jacket & ticket book later, and they can easily earn the company a few hundred quid a day, just for writing tickets.

 

No wonder they dont use clamping. When you look at the costs involved compared to printing a book of tickets, you can see why.

[WebFerret]

No wonder they dont use clamping. When you look at the costs involved compared to printing a book of tickets, you can see why.

 

Precisely why I don't follow the view of some people on this forum to let be and 'allow' this situation continue - rather than fight the publication of personal information by the DVLA and freely distribute it into the public domain.

 

For said reasons emsgeorge has mentioned - I can't see that a stop put to the DVLA 'dishing' out personal data would lead to an explosion of clamping - it would simply be too costly and complicated for most to impliment.

 

I can understand retail outlets allowing ticketing (simple, covert, no impact on day to day buisiness) - but clamping would cause major issues for them - retail parks, McDonalds, BP ect would never support such measures as it would greatly have a negatively impact for customer relations!

[Guest pinnaclepain]

What this actually needs is legislation so the rules that apply to tickets issued under the RTA also apply to private land.

Signage to be standard, fees to be standard and a formal/independant appeals process.

I see no reason why a private parking ticket should be any different to a ticket issued by a traffic warden in terms of the rules and conditions that apply to them, this way the ticket would either be legal or not.

I would hate to see more clamping and/or towing away of vehicles.

In Blackpool most hotels and stores do not issue tickets or clamp vehicles they merely call a number and a lorry arrives within 5 minutes to take them away and charge £300 in cash only to get them back.

Legislation is the only way forward.

[emsgeorge]

I dont know if the government is doing anything about it yet, because this is a relatively new problem.

 

Before SIA licensing of clampers, nobody bothered with the long payment times of ticketing. Get some clamps, put some signs up, and easy money - straight into your pocket. No having to write to people to 'demand' money, and no costs associated with tickets / processing etc.

 

And from my post above, thats all now changed. Its easier to issue 'tickets' to people, and hope they pay. If even 50% of people pay, then your costs are covered. From the amount of posters putting their 'tickets' on here and asking for advice, there seems to be a load more PPC's appearing every day, trying their luck.

 

Until theres a huge backlash, nd vitually nobody pays up these tickets, then the situation wont change. I just hope the PPC's ticket as many MP's as possible, so something will get done, but I wont hold my breath for a long time yet. Not everyone has access to the net, and some drivers will assume its all legit, and ay the money.

 

If they legislate, then it will certainly make 'tickets' appear the same, have the same wording etc - and charges may even be legislated as well. But, it may make the whole industry legal and legitimate. PPC's will have no problems taking people to court, and using baliff services - look at how easily councils use the TEC to enforce.

 

I think it will also become a hell of a lot more confusing when the parking attendants 'rebrand' later this year to become 'civil enforcement officers'. (something that the baliffs on 'cars & cops' have already done.) How many people will link this to the 'civil penalty charges' that some PPC's use, and assume they are legal.