Alliance and leicester fined by FOS for retaliatory account closure

[Enron]

If you can prove that the money was incorrectly debited from the wrong source then yes you can get you money back.

 

How long ago was this?

 

Reopenning the account, personally would you want to give money to any business which employed these kind of tactics.

[MARTIN3030]

Well thats very encouraging I was wondering what I would do without any credit cards or bank accounts as I have just started this process. I will try to start a thread (if someone explains what to do ) to monitor my progress.

 

 

Not too difficult.

Simply navigate to the bank groups and find yours.

Open that section then click on new thread.

Put in a title and away you go.

If you have any difficulties send me a pm and I will set it up for you. (dont forget to add the bank group )

[wez1211]

Tune into Radio 4 the Money Box programme on Saturday and you may get to hear my story, being interviewed tommorrow but unsure how much they will use/edit etc.

 

I think I should comment that you cant prevent closure of the account (as court action in North London re Halifax showed) and so best advice is to still think carefully about claiming back charges as banks still can and will close the account, particularly A&L. SET UP A PARACHUTE ACCOUNT AND CLEAR YOUR OVERDRAFT BEFORE HAND.

 

Luckily I had an old dormant account that I could still use but I still got stung with the £1000 overdraft, for which I had to borrow to repay. Therefore if you take away the moral/principle victory side of things I am actually approx. £600 out of pocket. But that pales into insignificance when I consider the importance of the decision and if the decision can change policy at A&L then it would help thousands.

 

Attack from a position of strength I say, cover your backside, even if it takes a while to clear overdraft etc, you have 6 years!

 

WEZ1211

[Will Scarlet]

Wez - wise words. The FOS's decision is truly a milestone but you are right in what you say. A position of strength is vital. Do you have a link to this Halifax case? I'd be very interested to learn more...

[betseyglamourpuss]

Hi there!

I am absolutely thrilled by your news. I wondered why it took them so long before actually realising that people have "human rights" now.

 

These penalties imposed by banks have always been unfair, and its is a bit like "bullying"... it is only recently that such behaviour has been in the spotlight and legislation seems to be doing something to erradicate it.

 

Is it not weird how we can become used to accepting the unacceptable?

I think that this may be the tip of the iceberg eh? Ou, I am so looking foward to watching THIS space....!

 

Would it not be wonderful to see the day when the customer will be able to impose the "penalty" on the bank for lousy customer service?! Ha!

 

Good Luck in your future endeavours......

[mcuth]

Just drafted my letter of complaint to A&L - bet they already thought they were shut of me :D

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, My OH had an account with A&L, and paypal took money out of her account by direct debit instead of her credit card, she was charged a huge sum of money and was on benefits at the time, she lost £80 that was paid into the account from the jobcentre.

 

She argued for 1 month and they closed her account and cleared the balance, her credit file shows a zero balance with no default.

 

Is it still worth complaining and do you think she will get the £80 back and would the account be re-opened?

 

Thanks

 

Kev

 

Hi, Kev/Trubster

 

I would think it's worth complaining, especially as using benefit money to pay charges is of highly dubious legality.

 

Reply to this thread and mention my name in your post and I'll locate the bit of law that relates to it. Too tired to do anything now - off to bed.

 

Westy

[Bilgeman]

On the matter of benefit money being used to clear unlawful bank charges, is there a VERY clever lawyer out there who could argue that, as benefits are paid for a specific reason and that the banks are under an obligation to handle customers' money correctly, they are committing an offence, or at the very least breaking their contract, by using that money for a purpose other than that for which it was paid, especially as it is without the account holder's, or the benefit agency's, permission?

[littlerider]

hi everyone. i am so glad i found this site. i would never of thought of claiming back charges. but after reading other peoples articles i am going to give it a go. also my boyfriend is going to try and get his back because every time they charge him takes him over his overdraft and it happens month after month. could anybody tell me if you can claim back credit card charges?

[Guest Tracey284]

Hi Littlerider and welcome. This site is amazing and so helpful. Yes, you can claim back credit card charges, but make sure you do LOADS of reading first to ensure that you don't make mistakes and you do everything by the book. There are template letters for the Subject Access Request (asking for your statements), then the subsequent letters that you send. The helpers are also great. Good luck and welcome.

[demon_x_slash]

Bilgeman, there is a thread here about arrestment of benefits and how to stop the banks doing so:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/36790-bank-taking-your-benefits.html

[MoonHawk]

On the matter of benefit money being used to clear unlawful bank charges, is there a VERY clever lawyer out there who could argue that, as benefits are paid for a specific reason and that the banks are under an obligation to handle customers' money correctly, they are committing an offence, or at the very least breaking their contract, by using that money for a purpose other than that for which it was paid, especially as it is without the account holder's, or the benefit agency's, permission?

 

Hi

 

You do not need a very celever lawyer. You can use first right of appropriation under the Social Security Administration Act 1992. If for instance you are receiving child benefit, the bank can not take the money and use it for somthing else.

 

Best procedure is that you write to them BEFORE the money is paid in to say that you will be withdrawing it (or paying certian bills like electricity gas etc) and that they should ensure no other payments intefere with this.

 

You can obviously write to them in retrospect, but i am not too sure about the procedure. This is not used that often so some banks may not know about the process and you may need to complain and write to the FOS if they persistantly ignore your request. You will also have to probably do this every month as a remonder to them, so that they can not say it is new funds and instructions were for old funds.

 

Social Security Administration Act 1992

Certain benefit to be inalienable.

 

187.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of or charge on—

(a) benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b) any income-related benefit; or

© child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of a beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors.

 

(2) In the application of subsection (1) above to Scotland—

(a) the reference to assignment of benefit shall be read as a reference to assignation, "assign" being construed accordingly;

(b) the reference to a beneficiary's bankruptcy shall be read as a reference to the sequestration of his estate or the appointment on his estate of a judicial factor under section 41 of the [1980 c. 46.] Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980.

(3) In calculating for the purposes of section 5 of the [1869 c. 62.] Debtors Act 1869 or section 4 of the [1882 c. 42.] Civil Imprisonment (Scotland) Act 1882 the means of any beneficiary, no account shall be taken of any increase of disablement benefit in respect of a child or of industrial death benefit.

 

I hope this helps.

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[MoonHawk]

too busy typing and did not see demon_x_slash's reply

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[allangary]

Hi All

 

Please forgive me if I'm in the wrong thread this is my first time posting on the sight, I have however been reading through the sight for some time and I'm currently a few day away from going to court with a Barclay's Case thats been going on for months, anyhow I recently got charged £60 for going over drawn £3 on my A&L acount, I called them and said That I thought the charge was unfair ect ect I sent them the first letter, they then replied and said that the OFS set those rules out for Credit cards and that they did not apply to them (current acounts) and that they would refund me £25 as gesture of good will, before I could reply with the second letter I recive a new letter saying that they have closed my account and have charged me £88.73 and demand that I send all cheque books and card back to them and pay my acount and fee's up in full or they will take futher action and start sending ballifs around and charge me acourdingly this is all for £3 what step should I take next any help would be great!

 

Thanks

[bally35]

Holy Ghost!!!1

I would ceratinly be reminding them of the FOS fine that they received the other day on such retaliatory action.

Make a complaint including the above case, ask them for a "final decision letter" and advise them that you are bringing a complaint against them to the FOS.

Apparently FOS are now dealing with such cases immediately, rather than the normal six months.

PM one of the moderators who will be able to advise you better (am not technically minded enough to be able to provide links to approprait threads so my apolgies).

I am so angry at the bullying tactics that banks are resorting to.They really need to learn that they cannot get away with this.

Despite the huge publicity that our cases are generating, the government appear to be doing nothing to provide an immediate solution to this!!!!

[bally35]

Holy Ghost!!!1

I would ceratinly be reminding them of the FOS fine that they received the other day on such retaliatory action.

Make a complaint including the above case, ask them for a "final decision letter" and advise them that you are bringing a complaint against them to the FOS.

Apparently FOS are now dealing with such cases immediately, rather than the normal six months.

PM one of the moderators who will be able to advise you better (am not technically minded enough to be able to provide links to appropriate threads, so my apolgies).

I am so angry at the bullying tactics that banks are resorting to.They really need to learn that they cannot get away with this.

Despite the huge publicity that our cases are generating, the government appear to be doing nothing to provide an immediate solution to this!!!!

[betseyglamourpuss]

Michael

YOu seem to really know your way about these banking systems.

May I please ask a few questions to you?

 

Can I ask roughly how long all these bank charges proceedings take?

Also, will they really close my account down?

Can I also get statements for my credit card? and is this only for charges levied on account - ie late payment? not interest etc

Also, did you see the interview on GMTV this morning? Very uplifting toknow that everyone feels the same way..

Do you know if the small claims court deals with such claims in Scotland as I appreciate that English law is slightly different - despite me being from Ireland!

Thanks for any help you can provide.. it is really much appreciated. You have all been a Godsend to me.

The last charge I had was just before Xmas.. I wrote a cheque for £9.15 and it was sent back and represented before I got funds in account. I was charged £34 + £34 + £25 and the cheque did never clear anyway.. I had to eventually pay the person by postal order to boot. So I was out all that money for nothing.. I think that was very harsh and their policy says they do not charge for items under £10 however that was when I put my first letter in asking for bank statements... may have something to do with it. eh

anyway, speak soon and keep providing the wonderful advice... fiona x

[HONESTKNOB]

I decided to drop Richard Pym an e-mail regarding the account closures and just to see what would happen, I offered to accept a 'token' payment not to take it to the financial ombudsman.

 

This is the reply:

 

 

Thank you for your e-mail addressed to Richard Pym, our Group Chief Executive. He has asked me to respond on his behalf as I am the person responsible for the issue you have raised. Please be assured he will receive and read copies of our correspondence.

The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) adjudication which I believe you are referring to was based on the specific set of circumstances of one particular case, those circumstances do not routinely apply to other cases.

FOS have confirmed that firms have a right to choose who they do business with, and on occasions when the banking relationship between ourselves and a customer has irretrievably broken down, we reserve the right to close an account in accordance with the provisions of the Banking Code.

I do not therefore believe that any payment of a "goodwill gesture" to you is applicable. We will, of course, co-operate fully with FOS if you choose to refer the matter to them.

Yours sincerely

Chris Edeson

Group Customer Care Consultant

Group Chief Executive's Office

Alliance & Leicester plc

[natwesttookmymoney]

Well, honestknob, you tried to be nice and it didn't work.

 

I trust you're not surprised!

 

Now, it's time. Not to get mad - but to get even.

 

good luck with your claim and I hope you grind the b*gg*rs into the dust.

 

Westy

[HONESTKNOB]

Not surprised that they didn't want to give me anything. Just can't believe their pig headed attitude. My missus kind of shrugged her shoulders and went 'oh well, nothing you can do then'. I reminded her that was exactly what she did when we got the first letter saying 'no, you can't have you charges back' ;-)

[joneshousehold]

Hope you haven't been too smug with her as the first law of marriage is never suggest your wife is wrong! She is just testing your endeavour to keep you focused!

[mcuth]

Hi Fiona (betseyglamourpuss)

 

Not sure if you're addressing me in your post above, but since I'm a Michael, and I posted on this thread, I'll answer

 

1. How long - it depends. Yes, I know that's vague, but it depends on different variables: the bank you're claiming against, the amount of your claim, possibly even how well constructed your letters are, all sorts and no-one knows definitively. In my own experience, it's taken anywhere from a few weeks to 10 months.

2. Account closure - it's a distinct possibility, especially with A&L. As you can see form this thread (and the public statements they made last year), A&L have been closing accounts in retaliation for bringing claims - they certainly closed mine after I claimed from them.

3. Credit card - yes, absolutely. I'd refer you to the FAQs first though, you need to thoroughly read them and understand what you can & can't claim for.

4. GMTV - no, I didn't see it - I tend not to watch programmes about bank charges, or read newspaper articles about them (unless they're about CAG!). I get frustrated with the misinterpretation of various points by the media - e.g. this insistence that the "correct" amount would be £4.50 (); also, their persistence in calling the charges "illegal" when they're actually unlawful, etc.. etc.. - besides, I don't watch GMTV anyway

5. Scotland - I believe small claims are different in Scotland & N.Ireland, but honestly have no idea just how different - for Scotland stuff, best have a look in the Scotland forum

 

Hope that helps. BTW, I see you've already started your own thread in the A&L forum, so you should ask further questions about your A&L claim in that thread - that way you don't take a thread like this one off-topic, and all the information pertinent to your fight is kept in one place.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[betseyglamourpuss]

Thank you Michael for your advice.

 

Will delve in enthusiastically! Just waiting for statements to arrive which I believe will be up to 40 days.

 

Sorry for bothering you about the GMTV - interview. It was the money advisor of the show (cant remember his name) and that programme was where I found out about re-claiming my bank charges in the first place. They had a special money advice slot on over Christmas and that was one thing that was mentioned - from then I went on to find this site!!

 

A larger Credit Union in Glasgow is now offering a current account service whereby they claim not to impose these penalties for missed direct debits and such like. I am looking into this in more detail..

 

Will let you know how I get on....! and when I go shopping with my money the A&L [edited] from me!! (what donation would this site wish?)

 

take care

[Sarrahk]

HI, i am very interested in this, a few months ago i posted up about this same topic.. i was furious as i had my account closed by HSBC after complaining and getting refund of my back charges. They wrote and said that they were closing my account for a "commercial decision" subsequently and I wrote several letters of complaint to them. I threatened them with obmbudsman and the bank then reviewed matter but wrote back and said they would not change their decision and the ombudsman had no jurisdiction over account closure so i did not pursue it further. I have since been harassed by back to repay entire o'raft at once which i £900 on the account (i have just been paying £50 month)... shall i proceed to complain to ombudsman now?? I hope i am still in time too... Sarrah K

[Ded]

My usury outfit Halifax threatened closing my account, I countered by threatening to burn my Howard efigy and posting their intent in maximum font with a poster in the rear window of my Volvo, I still have the account but Howard after the fire looks scruffier than the original.. I ruined a local Kitchen design outfit I fell foul with using the rear car window tactic.