Yorkshire Bank reclaiming

[tifo]

If yorkshire bank has been charging me a £4 unauth overdraft fee, plus interest, should i charge them the same rate under 'mutuality and reciprocity'? and forego the statutory rate.

 

or should i just ask for my charges and add the 8% statutory at court?

[JulesTools]

Hi tifo

I very much think a judge would take a dim view of what you are suggesting.

Stay with the 8% as per s.69 County Courts Act 1984

 

Jules

[tifo]

i am asking because claiming contractual compounded interest is positively encouraged on this site, so when do we actually do this if we are to claim only the stat 8%?

[tifo]

Hi ... i estimate Yorkshire Bank has charged me £452 in fees in 2001/2002.

 

I shall be claiming this back.

 

I have asked what interest rate to charge them and been advised to charge the same rate they have done to me, which was £4 a day. There was no unauth overdraft fee of APR as such. This means i will ask for £4 x 2043 (last day of the charge) in additional fees of £8172.

 

Does this seem right to anyone?

 

Letter stating the fee is below.

 

[bill-k]

Just following your link here, tifo. Yes, the £4 are penalties, so you claim all of that. However, this is penalty charges - NOT interest. You claim interest in addition to these charges, at the rate the bank currently charges for unauthorised borrowing. Your spreadsheet will automatically work it all out for you.

[tifo]

thanks bill-k, i get it now.

 

i didn't think a judge would be too happy me claiming over £8,000 on a charge sheet of £450 anyway ....

[bill-k]

tifo - you should be able to claim the £8,000 odd. They were penalties.

 

Sorry if I've not made myself clear.

 

Then on top of that, you should be able to charge 31% contractual interest. This is too large an amount of money for us not to get it right.

 

Contractual interest could easily double your claim.

 

Check it out.

[tifo]

hi bill-k ...

 

i want to get this right with Yorkshire, but time is short as my charges started Jan 2001, so the longer i leave it the less i can claim back going 6 years.

 

i didn't think i could claim the £4 a day, as you were saying before.

 

i was going to go for the simple 31% compounded.

 

i loose a lot of money like this but it looks more realistic.

 

i seriously doubt i would get away with 31% compounded + £4 a day. That would take it to around £15,000 and i would be sh*^*$ng it at that amount, especially as the charges are only £452.

[bill-k]

Tifo, the charges are NOT just £452 - they are (approx.) £8,452 !!!!!

I keep telling you that !!! Those are ALL charges.

 

If you claim 31% interest you must claim it as compound interest, otherwise it is not contractual interest, and your claim will be wrong.

 

You MUST get the figures right before you send any letters, otherwise your claim is likely to fail.

 

If you're scared of the amount of money that the bank now owes you - don't be. It's the bank who should be scared.

 

Claim the maximum amount you can from them, first of all. You can then let them make you an offer. If you accept it, you've won. If you take it to the wire, then you can still accept a lower amount, and you can still put in a smaller claim if you take it to court. But DON'T start off with a small claim - they will only try and reduce that anyway.

 

Get it ?

[tifo]

i understand your thinking Bill-K.

 

But the charges are £452 on my statements.

 

The £8,000 odd figure is from me adding £4 a day to these charges (this is what they have stated clearly they will charge me and have done so as an unauth overdraft fee).

 

But, they have not charged me interest, or very little as i only paid about £2 'interest'.

 

So, i can only put one charge on ... either the £4 a day or compounded interest.

 

I cannot claim the £4 a day = £8000 as interest because it is not so.

 

So, if i take it to court (probably have to) i should forego the £4 a day charge and only claim compounded interest to keep it within £5k? The bank will think i'm mad and will show the judge that i tried to ask for £15,000 and am now only asking for £2.500!

 

It's doing my head in .....

 

I'm thinking if i write to them and ask for £15,000 back they will laugh all the way to the bank (pun intended!).

[bill-k]

i understand your thinking Bill-K.

OK, good (supposedly !!)

But the charges are £452 on my statements.

 

The £8,000 odd figure is from me adding £4 a day to these charges (this is what they have stated clearly they will charge me and have done so as an unauth overdraft fee).

Have you charged them £4 a day, or have they charged you £4 a day ? - I don't understand you, here.

But, they have not charged me interest, or very little as i only paid about £2 'interest'.

If they have charged you £4 a day, then claim that back as well, yes.

So, i can only put one charge on ... either the £4 a day or compounded interest.

No, you can put any penalties you were charged by them.

I cannot claim the £4 a day = £8000 as interest because it is not so.

It is not so......(what ?) - were you charged this, or not ?

So, if i take it to court (probably have to) i should forego the £4 a day charge and only claim compounded interest to keep it within £5k? The bank will think i'm mad and will show the judge that i tried to ask for £15,000 and am now only asking for £2.500!

No - you can claim anywhere between what you're entitled to, down to zero.

It's doing my head in .....

Mine, too !!!

I'm thinking if i write to them and ask for £15,000 back they will laugh all the way to the bank (pun intended!).

Until we get this straight, they will !!!

:D

[tifo]

Hi Bill-K.

 

I've been trying to explain it clearly.

 

Yorkshire Bank have charged me £456 in charges altogether, including at times £4 a day for being over my agreed limit. They have also charged me £32 fees for direct debits / cheques going back and then a £20 month overlimit fee. They don't seem to have charged me much interest (as if £4 a day wasn't ebough!). Total for these all these charges is £456.

 

As i have shown in my picture above, they have stated they will charge this £4 a day.

 

What i am asking is, under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity (i charge them what they have charged me) should i now charge them £4 a day from the last date of the charges (comes to about 2000 days since June 2001)? This is the total of £8000 odd that would be created from this. They have not charged me this. This is my figure for charging them

 

If i charge them the compounded interest rate of 31%, interest comes to £1,680.

 

So, i claim either £2,140 in total at 31% APR or £8,450 in total at £4 a day.

 

I am looking at the first at 31% ... as £4 a day is excessive (not for them to charge me, but for me to charge them).

 

There was about £350 odd outstanding on this account (obviously all the charges) and they wrote this off and closed the account.

[bill-k]

OK, tifo, thanks for your patience with me - I have finally got it !!!

 

If you charge them £4 a day as per the contract, I would think you will have to go out on the forum and get a lot of info gathered, as that is quite different fro mcharging them contractual interest. As these were charges, then I suspect that you cannot charge them this daily penalty any more than you can charge them for failed transactions, etc. You can only claim back the charges which they actually made to your account.

 

So that is the £456 total charges you are claiming, then. OK.

 

But now I notice that the account was closed, and it appears that approx. £350 was written off. They may well defend, saying that approx £350 of those charges debited to the account were never actually paid by you, in the end. This only leaves approx. £106 as reclaimable, as far as I can see.

 

But, yes, you then add contractual interest to that, and it will have to be the most recent £106 charges, too, I'm afraid.

[tifo]

thanks bill ...

 

actually, looking at my statements, the account was £385 OD, so that leaves me only £71.

 

why don't i go for the whole £456 plus contractual interest at 31%. and let them propose £71 + interest if they want to? Let them tell me the account was written off with £385 OD?

 

In this way, i may end up getting more than i would if i simply asked for £71 + interest.

 

I was also paying money in and charges were being put on and it was being over and then i was paying in etc. so i think they really should give me the whole lot.

 

i think because it takes it over 6 years, the charges i paid from my own money are before Jan 2001 and this £456 is what they charged me over and over again to make my account £385 OD. I may be slightly unlucky with this one .... i've definately paid them more than £71!

 

anyway, £71 + contractual interest at 31% comes to £372 so its still not too bad.

 

what do you advice?

[bill-k]

Yeah, I see what you mean, tifo.

 

Firstly, the 6yrs+ charges - you may as well keep them in the claim and leave it to the bank to protest that the Limitations Act prevents claiming. You then use the LA s.32 rebuttal if they do. That way, you still have a good chance of keeping these. The bank might not notice the dates, anyway, so leave them in, I reckon.

 

Secondly, the written-off overdraft balance - Yes, I think you're right, after all. You should claim the whole amount of your claim, and either wait for the bank to mention this O/D balance, or just take the written-off amount off of your final claim total.

 

I think we're getting something like a decent claim sorted out, now, at last !!!!

[tifo]

thanks bill,

 

sent the letter off with £454 + contractual interest for a total of £2,144.

 

If they take off the £385 it leaves £69 but then if they take off the two £32 charges which are just outside the 6 years by a few weeks it only leaves £5 which equals £23!

 

Anyway, let them figure it out!

[bill-k]

Well done, tifo. The £385 will just be taken off the total amount you're claiming. But if they take off the two earlier charges, then they will take off the interest on those as well.

[tifo]

so looks like zilch then?

[bill-k]

No, it looks like you take £385 off for the O/D write-off, then maybe you take £415 off for the earlier 2 payments. That leaves approximately £1,750 !!!

[tifo]

bill bill bill .....

 

let me explain again as you're obviously keenly trying to help and it is appreciated ....

 

total charges = £454.

 

account -£385 (written off, i did not pay it so kind of a refund). no default issued and no more contact.

 

therefore £454 - 385 = £69 left.

 

2 x £32 charges in december (out of range?) = £64.

 

£69 - 64 = £5 left ....

 

i hope it makes sense ...

 

anyway, since i've sent the letter now let's see what they say ....

[bill-k]

Fair enough, what's done's done, tifo. But they took those penaltes from you a long time before the account was closed, and deprived you of that money (or the potential use of it) then. They also charged you interest on those penalties then. You never got that back. That is what you claim contractual interest on.

 

Finally, when that's all settled, you say "Oh, yeah, you didn't bring it up, but I actually owe you £385 from when the account was closed, so here you are - now run along."

 

As for the pre 6 years penalties - it's for them to challenge, not for you to.

 

What you said makes sense, but to me it's the wrong sense !!!!

 

:o

[tifo]

thanks bill ...

 

you also make sense in your own way ....

 

if they don't bring it up then i don't need to .... there's no default etc on the debt as it was written off, with a final credit applied for £385 making the balance £0 and then closed.

[tifo]

received the standard yorkshire bank letter blah blah blah ....

 

does anyone have a reply for me or shall i just wait 14 days and send an LBA?

[LizzyBee]

Hi tifo, if they have said they are not paying you don't need to wait the 14 days (same procedure as me). However as I said in my pm to you the legislation for Business Accounts is not the same as a personal account. I sent the LBA template from the library and received the reply as posted in the thread "Business Claims against Yorkshire Bank". I am currently (with the help of people on this site) trying to determine what legislation to quote as this will also be very important when you come to complete the POC part of the court papers. Will update the above thread when I am more certain of facts.

 

Regards

 

Lizzy

[tifo]

Hi Lizzie,

 

This thread is for me personal account i had with Yorkshire bank.

 

I was asking about the business account for a friend who wants to claim. I helped him send the letter out and we sent a SAR.