Size of Font in Terms and Conditions - Help

[andrew1]

Can anyone tell me if there are any rules on what the minimum size of type font should be on a set of terms and conditions?

 

I have a set of T & C's that require a magnifying glass to read.

 

Thanks

[tifo]

the smallest they can get away with?

[Jimbo44]

Can anyone tell me if there are any rules on what the minimum size of type font should be on a set of terms and conditions?

 

I have a set of T & C's that require a magnifying glass to read.

 

Thanks

 

Never heard of any laid down minimum type size at all.

 

The yardstick I generally use is:

 

"The smaller the type size, the more I like to read T&C's to see what the catches are and what they don't want me to read and realise"!

[lookinforinfo]

Andrew, if you have access to the T&Cs, scan them in to your computer,

copy and then paste them into "notepad", then click on "format" and apply a

larger font size-around 12 fits the page fine.

[andrew1]

Cheers Lookinforinfo, but I tried to scan them and they didn't even pick up one word!:o they are printed on the back of both white and the yellow copies of the contract, but they are tiny and although I can pick up some of it, with my aging eyes AND glasses I still can't read the whole sentence or clause. I've got 24 clauses and sub sections, on A4 paper, average 43 words per line with a 1cm margin on the left, a 1cm centre margin and 145 lines down. The average book has 30 lines and 10-15 words across.

 

There is no way in a month of sundays that anyone could read these even if they wanted to.

 

I know how to get them, I could just ask for them in legible writing, but I am suing a company for friend who have refered to their terms and conditions as part of their argument. When I came to read them I thought this is crazy, surely there are regulation sizes for these damn things. I was hoping someone could tell me. I have a meeting with their solicitors on Thursday and it would be really great if I could say these are unlawful ( I'm getting good at that )

[lookinforinfo]

You should be able to photocopy them first, then scan them into your computer. Or if you have access to a more expensive photo copier, they

have facilities to enlarge the font size built in.

[andrew1]

You should be able to photocopy them first, then scan them into your computer. Or if you have access to a more expensive photo copier, they

have facilities to enlarge the font size built in.

 

Yes I can try that ( photocopier should handle it), and I thank you for that but that's not exactly my point. I want to know if it's legal to print them that small or whether they should be a regulated minimum size cos I want to stuff the solicitors argument.. I don't particularly want to read the wretched thing although under the circumstances it might be useful to know what's in them

 

You see Lookinforinfo, this site makes me ask the questions now because so many of these things we all took for granted as okay. My friend is a brickie, admin is not something he pays much attention to so he'd have never read these things anyway unless strapped to a chair, the fact you can't read them didn't help! Now I have to try and negotiate a deal with his client who's ripping him off for 30k on the strength of terms and conditions.

[lookinforinfo]

Oh I do understand what your main point was. But I am afraid I know nothing

of the statutory dimensions of small print-if there are any. However, I do

know how difficult they are to read and understand when you can only see

the words contained within the confines of the magnifying glass.

One of the many things I have learned on this great site is not only the

importance of T&Cs, but also the trmendous variations in the way they are

written. And in those same T&Cs that they quote against us, are often the

arguments we can use to reclaim the situation.

[diabolical]

In my opinion, if the t&c as supplied are illegible then they cannot form part of the contract. It's up to the company supplying the t&c to ensure that they have done the best for the other party with regard to understanding of t&c.

[lookinforinfo]

Difficult to argue that one in Court as legible can mean a]possible to read

or decipher;b] plainly discernible.

While the small print would fail b] for possibly the most eagle eyed, it would

fail a] since it would be perfectly possible to read with the use of a magnifier.

 

The argument that they were made deliberately small so as to deter most

people from reading would probably have more mileage.

[diabolical]

I was thinking about Interfoto v Stiletto, where a contract term in small print was held to be unenforceable unless it had been brought to the attention of the other party.

[lookinforinfo]

I think the argument was based not so much on the fact that the print was

infinitesimally small, but that one of the terms of the contract that was particularly onerous had not been brought especially to the attention of

the recipient.

However, I take your point that if there is a term in Andrews contract that is

particularly onerous, then the facts that they have not been brought to your

friends attention, AND that they are so small as to make them unreadable

to the naked eye, then a case like Interfoto v Stiletto could work. I particularly liked Lord Dennings statement on the obligation to bring onerous

conditions to the attention of the potential contractee "Lord Justice Denning stated that "Some clauses which I have seen would need to be printed in red ink on the face of the document with a red hand pointing to it before the notice could be held to be sufficient".

 

Of course you will have to be able to read the T&Cs first before you can tell

if there are those kind of clauses.

[andrew1]

Thank you people for all your interest. I spoke with a director of printing firm today and he stated there were no rules or regs regarding typeface size, unlike for example pre-printed envelopes which the Royal Mail insist on certain criteria.

 

I was told 145 lines is quite normal ( for those with joderal bank perched on the end of their noses i suppose ) I must get my eyes tested ! I'll see what happens when I go to the meeting and they quote the T & C's - I'll just pass them to the other party and ask him to read them out to me and say I forgot my glasses ! There's more than one way to skin a cat !!!! :D

[lookinforinfo]

Quote =Andrew/There's more than one way to skin a cat !!!! :D. Quote

 

Far better not to have your friend skinned though. Stick the T&Cs up here

Andrew, and see if the legal eagles on here can give you something you may

not have already to blow their case out of the water.

[andrew1]

Thanks, Lookinforinfo, but I cant scan them at all - they are just too light on the NCR yellow and white paper and the print is grey and the copier just makes a mish mash of them. I'd be typing for hours!

 

I am happy though now I have it confirmed that the T & C's actually regulate HOW the contract is performed and NOT related to the actual pricing issues which is what I have in my favour as the contractor is arguing that we cannot change prices due to condition 2 of their T & C's.

 

The only thing is , is that the acceptence to commence the contract relates to the original quote (pre revised quote) but instruction came AFTER the revised quote had been acknowledged as received. I also have an email from the contractor saying "thank you for your revised quote, please put a hold on ordering whilst awaiting response from our client" - then the order to commence came so they haven't a leg to stand on. There ar other items and issues I won't bore you guys with here, but it is looking reasonable for the meeting and my gut feeling is it will go quite well.

 

I think I have enough ammo for my chum to retain his fur and his money!

I'll let you know on Friday how it went as I gotta go up country and stay over. Thanks a million for your help.